Busse v Randall's Adventure & Training ESEE

[Gator97]

Yep, my junglas doesn't need a true sharpening even after having many outings where it has fought trees.

I think that's only because you didn't sharpen it. WIth all due respect, 1095 is still a conventional steel, and depending on sharpness requirements it is unlikely the knife can go years w/o the need for sharpening with any serious or half serious use.

Besides, there is no steel named "INFI". Call crucible or carpenter and ask them to make you some INFI, they won't know what in the hell you are talking about. I was talking to a guy as the Busse booth at blade show that said INFI is just busse's name for 52100. Could be true, could be false. But what I've seen in regards to INFI's edge holding, I'd say it's true.

There are tons of proprietary steels from both makers you mention, and all others as well. Besides, lots of steel foundries will make alloy according to your spec, as long as you pay the price. This has been covered numerous times. INFI steel composition is no secret either and it's not identical to 52100.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

I think that's only because you didn't sharpen it. WIth all due respect, 1095 is still a conventional steel, and depending on sharpness requirements it is unlikely the knife can go years w/o the need for sharpening with any serious or half serious use.



There are tons of proprietary steels from both makers you mention, and all others as well. Besides, lots of steel foundries will make alloy according to your spec, as long as you pay the price. This has been covered numerous times. INFI steel composition is no secret either and it's not identical to 52100.

I don't see where I said anywhere that the junglas would go years without sharpening? Also, I have sharpened my junglas, on the edge pro. I said it didn't need any true sharpening after many outings. In other words, I didn't need to take it to the stones and reset the bevel. A few swipes on a ceramic and the strop and you're back to shaving sharp.


And as far as INFI goes, I don't care what the composition is. It's edge holding ability is greatly exaggerated on this site by fan boys.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I don't see where I said anywhere that the junglas would go years without sharpening? Also, I have sharpened my junglas, on the edge pro. I said it didn't need any true sharpening after many outings. In other words, I didn't need to take it to the stones and reset the bevel. A few swipes on a ceramic and the strop and you're back to shaving sharp. I find this to be true for many steels. I only have to use stone (usually for me sandpaper over rubber) when I wait way too long to touch up, or if I damage the edge).


And as far as INFI goes, I don't care what the composition is. It's edge holding ability is greatly exaggerated on this site by fan boys. I have seen many quotes the INFI will keep a shaving sharp edge near eternally, or through 10 years of skinning, or breaking down an eternal pile of cardboard. My experience is that it is a bit better than some steels at basic edge retention. There are high end steels that will spank it in just this category. I find that after normal use, I need to hit the edge with a strop.It is the all around balance that makes it such a hard use steel. Very chip resistant (tends to roll, even at higher hardness, so the steel can be realigned, rather than having to grind chips out). The steel is pretty stain resistant, so it does not need to be coated. The steel does very very well in impact and flex stress. It is not magic, it is simply a great all around steel, that edges out basic steels in multiple categories. many High End steels will beat it in one area or two. There are lots of steels that will edge out Infi in straight edge retention (D2 would be a great example, especially with a good heat treat). Harder to sharpen in the field, so it is a trade off. Infi is just a good steel, or a bit better in every area. With most steels you are making a compromise in one area or another. Infi is just a great well rounded steel. I have steels that edge it out in edge retention, but if I smack a rock, or chop dirty wood, or hit a nail etc, it just takes longer to fix the edges. I was chopping some wood, and noticed I hit a rock (chopped a small pea sized stone in half and it took a few licks with a smooth steel, and two strokes on a medium stone, then the strop and it was good as new. I have done the same with a couple of different steels, and had to do more work to fix the edges.

I see the shortcomings as well as the up sides to Infi, and Busse designs. I don't have blinders on, I just like them!

Jerry has also posted that there is a new version of Infi, (don't know if it is the chemical composition, or the heat treat protocol) that should bump up the edge retention.

I have a higher hardness BAD that does better int his dept than the standard hardness, and like it a lot.

 

[Moosez45]

ESEE. 100%.

Moose

 

[UCPOPO]

ESEE. 100%.

Moose

What he said

 

[ron_m80]

I will chime in and say, I own some old school INFI and it is awesome in it's edge retention. It holds and edge, and holds an edge, and then when it dulls you just strop it and after a few minutes your diehard edge is back.

That being said, I thought I would give the BUSSE line a try and buy a few more after my amazment with the performance of my first, which I paid a premium for. I purchased a SAR8, and it chipped a bit, and the edge was blunt albeit sharp. worked my butt off trying to get the edge back, but there was so much steel to get through to work the chips out I gave up. I posted on BF and was bad-mouthed and all my efforts to resharpen it were met with naysayers who stated it had to be my foolish sharpening method, which was a point I didn't speak of. "you thinned out the edge too much" were the words used. Anyhow I sent the knife in to BUSSE, they honored the warranty and sent me a new one which I sold right away. Old INFI costs you a fortune, getting a copy of an out of production knife costs you extra money and time with BUSSE on the phone (i've heard you have to send in cheesy dance videos humiliating yourself for the right to order an out of production knife ) . If you want a "relatively" easy purchase you have to travel to a show to get a good price and "better" availability.

IMO ESEE knives win hands down, no "trough" to wade through to buy a knife, steady production of available models, and a proven track record of a no malarcky warranty. All that bomb proof talk fades fast when you buy a small knife that weighs little and cuts everything you need to. I guess it depends on what each and every persons finds value in.

Now, finally; I see only one knife, maybe two in the ESEE line of knives that even comes remotely close to being comprable to the BUSSE combat limited production runs, and that comprable knife hasn't even been out that long. This comparison in companies is boring and lacks a foundation for lengthy discussion. My $0.02

 

[Gator97]

I don't see where I said anywhere that the junglas would go years without sharpening? Also, I have sharpened my junglas, on the edge pro. I said it didn't need any true sharpening after many outings. In other words, I didn't need to take it to the stones and reset the bevel. A few swipes on a ceramic and the strop and you're back to shaving sharp.

Few swipes on ceramic doesn't count as sharpening. So, you have not sharpened, according to your words. Ceramic and stropping are excellent for maintaining the edge, but that makes it progressively thicker. And softer steel is easier to maintain with those methods, although, it gets thicker at higher rate too.
At any rate, 1095 needs sharpening/maintenance just like any other steel, less than some, more than others. It's hard to judge what is sharp over the internet, w/o actually handling the knife. So, statement like above, it was shaving sharp after many outings doesn't tell me much.

And as far as INFI goes, I don't care what the composition is.

Fine by me, but in that case you shouldn't be making statements like INFI is 52100, it's misinformation at the very least.

It's edge holding ability is greatly exaggerated on this site by fan boys.

And you know that how?

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Few swipes on ceramic doesn't count as sharpening. So, you have not sharpened, according to your words. Ceramic and stropping are excellent for maintaining the edge, but that makes it progressively thicker. And softer steel is easier to maintain with those methods, although, it gets thicker at higher rate too.
At any rate, 1095 needs sharpening/maintenance just like any other steel, less than some, more than others. It's hard to judge what is sharp over the internet, w/o actually handling the knife. So, statement like above, it was shaving sharp after many outings doesn't tell me much.


Fine by me, but in that case you shouldn't be making statements like INFI is 52100, it's misinformation at the very least.


And you know that how?

The part in red? Did you not see the part where I said I sharpened it with the edge pro? I set my own bevel to 36 inclusive with the EP.


Also, if you reread my post, I prefaced the 52100 thing with "this may or may not be true." You seem to read over a lot of what I write along with putting words in my mouth (IE: years of use with no sharpening, never said that). So, it seems like you just want to debate without actually reading the response, so I will just stop replying.

 

[1966c10]

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[1966c10]

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[cricketdave]

I don't think he was claiming the edge wouldn't last, just displeased that a rather expensive semi custom knife would come new dull as a butter knife. I had the same feeling myself. The no sheath bugs me but not alot I can always make my own sheath. Coming dull is frustrating though.


Ah I see I missed the first quote, my appologies. The edge held well for me once it was sharp so I can't agree with that part.

take it easy
cricket

edited to add more

 

[ron_m80]

But there are physical reasons why INFI's wear resistance potential is superior to 1095's potential.

Yes that physical reason is called the proprietary heat treatment. Other than that INFI in it's untreated form is a standard steel with a little extra added at the steel maker, and then some stuff from the heat treat.

Now take the above information and read up on F.J. Richtig. Link A "Jerry Busse" (may not be the real Mr. Busse, it was only the internet) has posted elsewhere that he respects the Richtig knives for their durability. Richtig forged 1095, and his heat treat was special too. He use to hammer his inferior 1095 blades through steel buggy axles and then show off the undamaged blades.

 

[1966c10]

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[Nathan L]

I have both a busse boss street and a rc-6. I like both of them, but usualy end up using the rc-6 more than the busse. The busse has a more "custom" feel to it because the handels are shaped and not just flat slabs like on the rc-6, but that is why the busse cost more. I personaly think that the rc-6 is one of the best knives you can get for close to $100.
Just my opinion.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

I love both companies. Infi is the best steel out there for a chopper with 3v being a its competition. 1095 just wont hold an edge like Infi will no matter what way you look at it.

What I love about busse is you get a product that you know is going to perform and also Busse produces alot of specialty items that other companies can't/don't make like the Gladius for example.

With that said I don't buy many Busses, As of right know all my knives are Swamp Rat, Scrap Yard, ESEE or Custom.

For the money I don't think there is a better brand out there than ESEE. Seriously nothing even comes close. I think the ESEE 6, when you combine its absolutely flawless fit and finish, sheath, warranty, and awesome materials is THE best value knife Ive ever purchased. For $110 nothing can beat it.

Also a thing that is overlooked is that ESEE's are AVAILABLE. Its so nice to be able to buy a knife you want when you have the money and not worry about it going out of production or not being able to find it or having to pay huge secondary market prices for it.

When It comes to fixed blades for me there is Busse, Swamp Rat, Scrap Yard, ESEE.... and then everything else. Performance wise, warranty wise, and looks wise they are all in the same league in my book.

Yes, INFI and SR101 are better steels but 1095 is capable of everything you can throw at it and then some. And when you factor in the amazing factory edges ESEE puts on their blades edge geometry will lend to better edgeholding even over SR101 which from my experience always have poor/ very fat factory edges.

You get what you pay for. INFI performs better than SR101 but at double the cost. SR101 performs better than 1095 but at 50% more cost. At the end of the day all the knives are great its just a matter of how much you want to spend.

Personally I sometimes prefer ESEE because its nice to know I can drop 100 bucks, modify one, beat the hell out of it, have fun with it and if I ruin it or break it I can just go buy another one and its not a big deal. Can't say that about some of my swamp rats....

 

[cziv]

I guess I'm missing something...

Here you posted that INFI's edge holding "isn't all it's cracked up to be"...


Then here you state the knife came dull and then sold it because you didn't want to sharpen it.


How were you able to evaluate the edge holding characteristics of a knife that was never used or sharp to begin with?

You assume that I have never had a Busse Infi knife in my hands before and that I haven't talked to a lot of folks (via the web) and a couple in person who concur that while Busse puts out a h*ll of a knife, it's not "all that" in terms of the price tag attached.

 

[1966c10]

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[cziv]

You're combining two post of mine one was about the edge retention and one was regarding 1095 and was prompted by a previous post. I don't care what you like, want to buy or why. So what are you on my *ss for about my opinion of infi.

There's a whole forum of true believers you can hang out with. Or, you can go to one or two threads on other forums that might challenge your ideas and thoughts about whole Busse thing. Here's some to read you can rest your fingers and read too.

 

[Hadji Flip Me Over]

With Bussekin knives you get an indestructible blade made of very high quality materials and an outstanding lifetime warranty. You will pay a considerable amount of money for all of these things, however.

With ESEE knives, they also use high-quality materials and have an equally impressive warranty. An ESEE blade will take any normal use/abuse you can dish out and ask for more, but it would not hold up to the tortures you can put a Bussekin blade through. You won't pay anywhere near as much for an ESEE blade as you would for a Busse blade, but they're right around the same price as Scrapyard/Swamp Rat knives. With that in mind, I don't see a particular reason to go with ESEE over a SY/SR blade.

 

[kurodrago]

ESEE. 100% of fail!