Carbon vs Stainless Steel

cbrstar said:
While your at it you should sprinkle a little bit of that "Placebo Marketing" on your personality...(Sorry I know that was a cheap shot but I couldn't resist lol)

But let me quote some your article here "You can see the stark difference in carbide structure by comparing the white particles between 440C and O1. 440C and 154CM have relatively large carbides" There's people who don't need a microscope but can feel that difference with touch, and it's like that with wood, cloth, and endless other materials. I can't really describe it but higher the carbon the more "silky" it feels to me. The best way to describe it is take a antique nickle coin and take a modern one and they feel completely different.

You can call BS on it all you want. But I'm not the only person like this out there.
Click to expand...
Okay, since Larrin is above responding to your rude comment to do so:

BS. Full stop.

"I can't really describe it but higher the carbon the more "silky" it feels to me."

That ethereal difference that you can't find words to describe? You're encountering difficulty here because there isn't a real difference to describe.

"There's people who don't need a microscope but can feel that difference with touch, and it's like that with wood, cloth, and endless other materials."

Except for when you let placebo dictate your entire viewpoint on a broad classification of materials.

"...I'm not the only person like this out there."

On that, all of us agree.
 
Your best article yet, Larrin.

Is there a steel that is basically AEB-L with a bit of vanadium added? Kind of like the difference between W1 and W2.
 
marrenmiller said:
Okay, since Larrin is above responding to your rude comment to do so:

BS. Full stop.

"I can't really describe it but higher the carbon the more "silky" it feels to me."

That ethereal difference that you can't find words to describe? You're encountering difficulty here because there isn't a real difference to describe.

"There's people who don't need a microscope but can feel that difference with touch, and it's like that with wood, cloth, and endless other materials."

Except for when you let placebo dictate your entire viewpoint on a broad classification of materials.

"...I'm not the only person like this out there."

On that, all of us agree.
Click to expand...

It's not a placebo effect, heck take a old carbon knife and lick it then lick a stainless steel knife they even taste different so why wouldn't they feel different?
 
cbrstar said:
It's not a placebo effect, heck take a old carbon knife and lick it then lick a stainless steel knife they even taste different so why wouldn't they feel different?
Click to expand...
So do the old cast iron vs other cookware , both smell and taste ! :)
 
JParanee said:
I was referring to blades like this not CS stuff
Click to expand...
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply CS was doing laminates first. Lots of reasons to do laminates in the past, most of them even very utilitarian reasons.

I think there are better solutions in modern metallurgy than lamination, though.

Yes, you could clad a carbon steel with a stainless to cut down on the amount of maintenance needed on the flats, but if you aren't maintaining the edge then the functional problems of rust are just as bad.
 
JacksonKnives said:
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply CS was doing laminates first. Lots of reasons to do laminates in the past, most of them even very utilitarian reasons.

I think there are better solutions in modern metallurgy than lamination, though.

Yes, you could clad a carbon steel with a stainless to cut down on the amount of maintenance needed on the flats, but if you aren't maintaining the edge then the functional problems of rust are just as bad.
Click to expand...


I know you were not but I have heard that CS has trade marked it which I thought was odd but very CSish :)
 
JacksonKnives said:
Sorry, I didn't intend to imply CS was doing laminates first. Lots of reasons to do laminates in the past, most of them even very utilitarian reasons.

I think there are better solutions in modern metallurgy than lamination, though.

Yes, you could clad a carbon steel with a stainless to cut down on the amount of maintenance needed on the flats, but if you aren't maintaining the edge then the functional problems of rust are just as bad.
Click to expand...
I've got to think that CS San Mai is more about aesthetics than pure function . They recently went from DLC 3V back to San Mai . I don't see that as an improvement , but apparently CS thought that's what their customers want . :confused:
 
Ya’ll sayin’ you can’t discern the difference between a carbon steel knife blade and a stainless steel knife blade by touch and sight? For example, two of the same model of Opinel, with unmarked blades, one carbonne and one INOX?
 
tim37a said:
Cbrstar - Might you be tasting the patina??
Click to expand...

That's possible, but you don't even need to lick it. Just try cutting some fruit with a carbon knife and the fruit can taste a little different. Is it the steel or a chemical reaction from the patina?
 
Twindog said:
Your best article yet, Larrin.

Is there a steel that is basically AEB-L with a bit of vanadium added? Kind of like the difference between W1 and W2.
Click to expand...
Yeah Nitro-V is the closest. It has a pretty small addition of vanadium though.
 
I love articles like this because they re-affirm where I am in my own little journey through this weird Knife passion I am afflicted with. I got caught up in the whole super steel marketing ploy like a hopeless drug addict. Had to at least own and try every new steel that came out.

Then I found myself getting frustrated trying to sharpen these supposedly exotic super steels most of which just had high Carbide content . I started to educate myself (extremely limited basic stuff) on steel properties and characteristics and I realized after all the impulsive spending of hard earned dollars that I had a problem and the whole thing was kind of silly.

I went back to the knife drawer and pulled out an old 440C knife and easily sharpened it to a razor edge and started using it. sure it dulled faster than my S90V knife. But returning it to sharp was extremely easy on a plain old stone no expensive diamonds needed. That was when I stopped the madness and started searching for that specific steel that hit the balance of compromises that worked for me. And I think I have found it in the steel mentioned above. NitroV. Its great stuff!! takes a super keen edge and is easy to return to sharp with regular stones. is fairly rust resistant (enough for my EDC environment ) and I don't have to keep it oiled and it holds that edge better than 440c . Its also relatively inexpensive .

I think what articles like this reveal is that everything is a compromise and you need to figure out what works for you specifically. there is no right or wrong. only what works best for you the individual. some like Carbon blades and don't mind oiling them and fighting rust . others need rust proofing on the lines of H1 steel. for some its all about toughness in the field of use. yet others its how long will the edge hold up. Its a journey and your goal should be to find that balance for you. there will never be a "Super Steel" that hits all the bases 100% for everything. There is no element in the periodic table that can accomplish this.

Loved the article keep up the great work !!!!!!
 
Mecha said:
Ya’ll sayin’ you can’t discern the difference between a carbon steel knife blade and a stainless steel knife blade by touch and sight? For example, two of the same model of Opinel, with unmarked blades, one carbonne and one INOX?
Click to expand...

With Opinels I can. The carbon ones have an orange-y stain on the handle, while the stainless ones just have a clear-coat. :D

And yeah, no one can tell carbon from stainless steel by how it feels in the hand. If you handed folks two pieces of steel with the same surface finish, it would be impossible to tell by feel which one was stainless. But maybe if you held them long enough one would start rusting. :D :D :D
 
So we have gone from a person with a PHD explaining the various differences of carbon and stainless steel using micrographs to a wing nut being able to tell the difference between the two by taste testing? Given the choice between Larrin and cbrstar, I'll pick Larrin every time for knife advice. And I call total BS on Cbrstar claiming to able tell the distinction between carbon and stainless by such foolishness as feel and taste testing.
 
buckfynn said:
So we have gone from a person with a PHD explaining the various differences of carbon and stainless steel using micrographs to a wing nut being able to tell the difference between the two by taste testing? Given the choice between Larrin and cbrstar, I'll pick Larrin every time for knife advice. And I call total BS on Cbrstar claiming to able tell the distinction between carbon and stainless by such foolishness as feel and taste testing.
Click to expand...

This is supposed to be a discussion. Now I shared my perspective and personal experience. Just because you don't agree with it and don't have the same experience you've resorted to the logical fallacy of ad hominem by suggesting things like I'm a troll or wingnut etc instead of providing an actual counter argument.

So go and take Grampa's old knife and at least taste test it with some fruit. Or place it on your tongue (use the flat dull side...sorry but in your case I feel the need to give that warning). And come back with a counter argument other then Larrin is your greatest BFF ever.
 
cbrstar said:
This is supposed to be a discussion. Now I shared my perspective and personal experience. Just because you don't agree with it and don't have the same experience you've resorted to the logical fallacy of ad hominem by suggesting things like I'm a troll or wingnut etc instead of providing an actual counter argument.

So go and take Grampa's old knife and at least taste test it with some fruit. Or place it on your tongue (use the flat dull side...sorry but in your case I feel the need to give that warning). And come back with a counter argument other then Larrin is your greatest BFF ever.
Click to expand...
No need to hate. We can all be BFF's.
 
Just my mileage but SS takes less maintenance. I’ll take the lower edge retention over rusty knives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top