"Carl's Lounge" (Off-Topic Discussion, Traditional Knife "Tales & Vignettes")

Elliott & Gus, appreciate all the time and effort spent. Enjoy "retirement."

Welcome Knarfeng and Peregrin to your "additional duties."
 
mdsmith said:
I guess it's ok to post this question here. I am looking at getting a hand gun for home defense. Me and the wife are going to get it together, taking the safety course together and will be going to the range together. I want her to be part of the whole process, and want her to be absolutely comfortable shooting it. The thing is, I know absolutely nothing about guns. I'm looking for some suggestions on what type, brand and caliber to consider. I know there is a better area to post this question, but I honestly value the opinions of those in this subforum more than anywhere else. I also though by posting here I could avoid the "You need to get two AR-15s" type of answers. Thanks, and if this isn't an appropriate discussion for here, please feel free to delete this post.
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Take the course, then find a range that has rentals and spend some time trying out different guns and in different calibers. When you fine one that you both like, or find one for each of you, then consider buying that/those. You may both feel and shoot best with the same gun or you may each have a different preference.

Generally speaking, starting out one of the three primary polymer guns, S&W M&P, Glock, or Springfield Armory XD would be a good choice in a semi-auto. A basic 4-inch revolver in .357 Mag/.38 Special by either S&W or Ruger would be solid for a house gun. You can grow from there.

For a HD long gun either a Mossberg or Remington pump with the 18.5 barrel is good. If you go 12 gauge look for reduced recoil buckshot loads in the 2 3/4" length (that's the fired length of the casing btw, just to muddy the waters). You will see them listed as "tactical," "reduced recoil," or "managed recoil," depending on who makes it. These are much more shootable and are still devastating at normal HD ranges. Patterning is generally tighter in these loads as you have less shot deformation from setback.

Personally, I've gone primarily 20 gauge for HD with #3 buckshot. Lighter, faster handling gun, less recoil generally, and still a severe load at hallway distance. The "urban load" for 12 gauge shotguns has been #4 buckshot in a 2 3/4" shell. This holds 27 pellets of .24 caliber pellets. A 20 gauge 2 3/4" shell holds 20 pellets of .25 caliber. Just fine for home defense ranges and with lighter guns and a little less recoil the wife can handle it as well as being a little handier for you. Also consider a youth sized shotgun. The shorter length of pull/stock makes for easier mounting in tight quarters.

I've owned a LOT of firearms over the years from old to new. I currently carry a Colt Combat Elite 1911 in .45 ACP as a commissioned security officer. I've had 5 Glocks, several M&Ps, a few XDs, and a load of others, both semi-auto and revolver. I don't have a problem with most any of them. I've carried a variety of firearms for work and in a variety of calibers.

That said, for a couple starting out, if you pinned me down to a single recommendation it would be a S&W M&P 9mm. The M&P comes with three different backstraps so you can pick the one that fits your hand best. The gun points well and is a pleasure to shoot. I miss both the M&P9s I traded off and will eventually get another one. The trigger smooths out after some shooting, but if you want better you can easily put in an APEX sear that cleans things up nicely. I've never had an inaccurate M&P.

I'd go with a 9mm for a couple of reasons. First, ammo costs. You want to shoot it a lot. You need to learn the gun and learn to shoot it well. For defensive purposes use one of the premium hollowpoint loads such as 124 grain Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Saber, Winchester PDX, or Federal HST. Or you can go for Cor-Bon. Just make sure you run a few through the gun to make sure it functions well with them. Then for the range you can get WWB (Winchester White Box) 100 round Value Packs at Wallyworld for $21.97 each. For the same in .40 S&W or .45 ACP it is $32.97 per box. You can shoot a lot of 9mm than .40 or .45 for the dollars expended. Starting out you want to shoot a lot, both of you.

The 9mm will also have less recoil and that will make range times more pleasant and you will be able to work on your marksmanship. Your wife will probably find it much more pleasant and will probably enjoy herself a lot more and be willing to shoot more. I find the .40 S&W to be a rather snappy cartridge, particularly in something the size of a Glock 23. For extended range sessions I would rather shoot 9mm or .45 ACP (more of a rolling recoil than a sharp snap).

So my single recommendation is S&W M&P 9mm with plenty of practice ammo and some premium JHP for the house. However, renting and trying out several different guns/calibers is still the best way to go about it.

Amos
 
I like to keep thihgs simple and old school. Both Karen and I stick with the revolvers we grew up with. Both of us have tried the auto loader route, but it just didn't take with us. Fotr a few years back in the 70's I had a Colt series 70 .45. It was okay, but just didn't have the sun rising in the east reliability I was used to with my revolver. Several years ago, Karen bought a Glock17, and shot it for a few years. After a while she sold it on consignment at the gun shop she bought it from. Got most of her money back out of it. Once in a while a failure to feed, or once not quite closing into battery.

Both of us have been shooting all our lives, and have revolvers that are older than our children. Those same revolvers have had zero malfunctions in I don't know how many tens of thousands of rounds of ammo. Maybe a hundred thousand, I don't know. Karen's model 17 is a 1957 model, and still shoots great. My model 60 is a 1972 model, and my model 64 is 1975. Both have been shot pretty continuous and never burped.

I think a nice clean police trade in Smith and Wesson model 10 is still a very viable defense gun. It was the industry standard for about 80 years, and the .38 special is a good round. Not too much kick, very good accuracy, and good power. Most of all, a very simple manual of arms. If you and your wife are both not gun people, and just starting out, keep it simple. Your lives are going to be depending on how you deal with things while under great stress. A revolver is a stress proof gun. Too many people have been killed when their auto has malfunctioned at the wrong time, and they didn't have the training and practice to deal with it, or the time to clear it, and got shot. Officer Jason White, here in Washington D.C was wounded by a drug dealer during an arrest, and when his partner returned fire, her Glock jammed and the drug dealer stood over officer White and shot him in the head while the other officer tried to get her gun working. I can only wonder if she'd had a nice .38 revolver and knew how to shoot, if White would be alive today.

If you go for a long gun, be aware that a Remington 870 can be jammed up good by short stroking it. I know, because I did it while practicing on the range. The Mossberg is a bit more reliable, and was the only pump shotgun to pass the tests to be used by the marines. Even better is a double barrel coach gun. Two shots, but reliable as all hell.

No matter what you pick, make sure you and your wife are on the same page, and work as a team, with a plan. She has to be right there with you for practice and each of you are each others back up. You're going to need two of each, and make sure each others guns are identical. This can be important when something goes bump in the night

Carl.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. This is the kind of advise I was hoping for. We found a range that rents guns, and will be going this Saturday as part of our "date night", followed by a nice dinner. Hopefully the person at the gun shop is both patient and knowledgeable, as we are both pretty green when it comes to guns.
 
I should mention that currently by the bed I have a small frame Taurus M85CH (concealed hammer, double action only), 5 shot, .38 spc revolver with Crimson Trace grips. I got a good deal on it used w/the grips. That's the grab it fast gun. There is also a 20 ga Rem 870 youth model.

I prefer Mossberg for the reason Carl mentioned & it's easier to slap rounds into the mag tube. The Mossy also holds 1 extra round. I have the 870 because it jumped into my hands from the used gun rack & stuck there. Very lively, all around little gun for a good price. I run either, but first choice for me for basic HD would be a basic Mossberg 500 w/18.5 barrel. I'm flexible though for a good deal, especially when it feels so good in hand. :)

I'm with Carl in that a simple K frame .38 with good loads will get the job done & is a fine thing to shoot. If the double action trigger pull is too much (hand strength issues for various reasons) a good gunsmith can easily turn it into melted butter on glass. Find a good clean S&W M15 (think Model 10 with adjustable sights) and you have a such a sweet, old school sidearm your wife might get jealous. Or take it all for herself.
 
mdsmith said:
Thanks for the replies guys. This is the kind of advise I was hoping for. We found a range that rents guns, and will be going this Saturday as part of our "date night", followed by a nice dinner. Hopefully the person at the gun shop is both patient and knowledgeable, as we are both pretty green when it comes to guns.
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There's a place in Odenton on RT 175 called "On Target." Not too far from Ft. Meade.

They have many kinds of guns to rent at not too bad prices. Decent people, but like all gun shop guru's you have to take it all with a grain of salt. The bottom line is they will advise you to buy what they can make a better profit on. I've found that there is little difference between gun shops and used car lots. Buyer beware!

Carl.
 
Hey guys...most you know that I've been stateside only a couple weeks and had 2 interviews at 1 workplace in that time, anyhoo they called me in for a 3rd tomorrow with their trainer so you think that sounds promising? they seem keen but its hard to tell. Need to get working so we can pay the rent! Never wanted a job so bad, and the benefits are quite impressive (starting wage isnt but its something I can work up to).
 
Sounds very promising, Robert! Since you said the benefits are good, that sounds like a full-time, permanent job - better yet. Best wishes! :thumbup:
 
Fingers are crossed Robert. Go in with the attitude that the job is yours if you want it.
(by no way to I mean arrogance, just inward confidence down to your bones. ;))
 
Hello all...joined BF a while back and have not been on much as of late....looking forward to making some new friends
 
Good luck, Robert!

Thought I'd share my lastest acquisition with you guys here. After losing an auction for a stag sowbelly that I REALLY wanted (even though I put in an inflated bid)... I won an auction for a 1890-1891 Maher & Grosh catalog. Woo hoo! Can't wait to see it! Hope you guys look forward to the scans!
 
Thanks for the luck guys! :D just got a call back and they offered me the position!!! I have to do the usual pre-checks but I got my first job in the US.
 
knnut said:
Hello all...joined BF a while back and have not been on much as of late....looking forward to making some new friends
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Hi knnut! Welcome aboard! We are all knuts here! ;)
 
mdsmith said:
I guess it's ok to post this question here. I am looking at getting a hand gun for home defense. Me and the wife are going to get it together, taking the safety course together and will be going to the range together. I want her to be part of the whole process, and want her to be absolutely comfortable shooting it. The thing is, I know absolutely nothing about guns. I'm looking for some suggestions on what type, brand and caliber to consider. I know there is a better area to post this question, but I honestly value the opinions of those in this subforum more than anywhere else. I also though by posting here I could avoid the "You need to get two AR-15s" type of answers. Thanks, and if this isn't an appropriate discussion for here, please feel free to delete this post.
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For a shotgun I really like the reliability of Benelli Nova Pumps. Worth a look.

If you want to go pistol, I can't and won't argue with Carl's wisdom.

I will say though, don't rule out the 45ACP. I actually have a "70 Series" colt and it has/had some issues.

It is a terrificly accurate pistol. It did have very inconsistent reliability. After a whole chunk of cash on a good gunsmith it looks like this:
CC1.jpg


It is no more accurate but much more reliable. With that said, it has still had a few malfunctions at the range. I ended up actually having to replace the mainspring to a lower rate spring. No malfunctions since but I just don't trust it for SD so I only keep it for range days.

I went to a local range here in MD looking for an HK 45 because they are known for reliability. I found a few but just didn't like the feel in my hand or the triggers, even the Police trigger or whatever they were called.

I found a nice little Les Baer sitting there. Held it, loved it, bought it. Here it is a while ago:

LB2.jpg


In this pic you can see a little wear from the horsehide leather holster I carry it in:

Woods9-1.jpg


And here is an up to date pic after recently refinishing the wood grips:

1911.jpg


I have shot this pistol a lot. I have put at least a few thousand rounds through it. Not one malfunction. I have tried lots of different quality ammo to see if it is the picky SOB my 70 series is and no problems.

I can recommend a pistol like this without hesitation. BUT, with any pistol, take it to the range and shoot, shoot, shoot and shoot some more.

I hope to see what you guys end up with.
 
Oh, and make sure you shoot with the rounds you plan to use for SD at least some of the time :)

My 2 cents.
 
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