Carothers and Guns

The only thing I didn't like about my 3" 686+, (which shot great), was the lock. From what I understand, incidences of failures as a result of the lock are rare, but not zero...and I didn't want to do the "delete" and so sold it to a neighbor and friend, (after explaining the matter), who wanted it for home defense without having to learn a complex manual of arms. (In other words, not a "gun guy".)
 
M67 said:
Since all the big bore talk, anyone ever have the chance to shoot one of the Ross 500s? I’ve shot several 500s and 460s and always thought they were fun but the Ross is so light…..


As for the ACOGS, I have 3, recently sold one. 2 are 1.5 powers which are great cause the extended eye relief, 3rd one is a fixed 3. Super clear glass but they are kinda limited mainly cause the short eye relief and eye box

Which one were you looking at?
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looking at something for an all purpose semi auto firearm that has potential for reach
 
mb> said:
What draws you to that particular model?

I ask because the 357 is a gun I’ve always wanted to buy but never have. I have a hard time deciding between manufacturers, let alone model and bbl length! I’ve been tempted by the Kimber, the Python and a number of Smiths.

Was just recently tempted by a number of online Python blem drops by my local megastore, but was still a lot of scratch for something I couldn’t lay eyes on.

But anyway, the 7 and 8 shot 3” S&W models kind of have my eye again. Dunno if those 627’s are noticeably fat to carry with the 8 d wheel.
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The 686 is a classic S&W model built on the workhorse L-frame, and built for a steady diet of magnum loads, unlike some of the lighter models. This is also the 'Plus' model, so it has a 7-round capacity, which I prefer. I won't be concealing this one, but will use it for hikes, and the 3" barrel is a nice tradeoff in terms of weight/length for that purpose. I also have holsters and speed loaders that will already work for it, so there is really zero I need in terms of aftermarket stuff, which made the decision easy. All in all, I don't think you can go wrong with a 686 in whatever barrel length suits your fancy.

The 627 is definitely chunkier, and for shooting magnum loads, I prefer at least a 3" barrel.
 
mb> said:
Thx Hammer67 Hammer67 . :thumbsup:

Blues Blues did you settle on another model as your personal favorite?
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I carry a 642 (J frame) as my daily carry around home and walking distances from home...unless I have a reason to believe I need more firepower.

Love the 642. I carry it with Winchester RA38B, 130 gr +P.

I wouldn't mind another "big" revolver, but I'm not a firearms collector and pretty much only own the types of firearms I carried at work, except for ones like the MP5, Steyr AUG and a couple of others which I do not own.

So, my gun locker is small. Four Glocks, a S&W J frame, an 870 and an AR. If that doesn't get me through the fight, well, nobody lives forever.
 
tinfoil hat timmy said:
looking at something for an all purpose semi auto firearm that has potential for reach
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So are you looking for something you could hunt with and defend yourself? Are you looking for a rifle or pistol? Define "reach".

If you're looking for a rifle as a single tool to do everything, my personal caliber preference is .308/7.62x51. Lots of firearm choices, wide selection of ammo that's readily available most places, manageable recoil, plenty of range, suitable for defense, and it's well suited for hunting antelope, deer, elk, or moose.

I'm sure some may disagree, but that's just my opinion.
 
686 is a fantastic gun and once they get used a little, double action is very smooth. My favorite revolver and I have had lots!
Most handguns can be concealed if you are careful about the holster, belt, and fitment of clothes. People are built differently, dress differently, perform different tasks, have different hand sizes and dexterity, have preferences for how they carry, grips, actions, etc- it is a very personal decision.
The perfect carry gun isn’t necessarily the best one (which is with you). There are so many great guns, I advise folks to try to handle and shoot as many as possible to find what works best for them.
 
Blues said:
Truth be told, I was able to conceal the 686+ pretty well AIWB with an untucked t-shirt. Didn't even feel the weight much with a belt.

I'm certainly not saying it's a light gun...it isn't...but it can be comfortably carried, imho.
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Yeah, the 686 is certainly concealable, with the right holster/belt combo, and dressing for it. But I have slimmer/lighter options that are just easier. In the summer, it's often just a J-frame these days.
 
tinfoil hat timmy said:
looking at something for an all purpose semi auto firearm that has potential for reach
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1) define reach (i.e. maximum range), and use (poking holes in paper? Hunting? Quite a difference between "enough to make holes in paper @500 yards", vs ethical hunting @500 yards).

2) is this for a semi auto you already own (in which case; what caliber and barrel length? And question #1), or something you're looking at getting? (Back to question 1).

3) have you ever used an ACOG? Are you comfortable with the whole "BAC/Bindon Aiming Concept" with a magnified optic? My main gripe with ACOGs, is that I personally found it a lot easier to hit multiple close range targets fast (2-gun and 3-gun) with 1x (either using an RDS, or 1x on an LPVO).

While I could do it with the ACOG, my brain just didn't handle the magnification as well as I could do it with both eyes open at 1x (and the Razor and Kahles are both amazing at 1x with both eyes open. The 'ring' of the tube pretty much disappears).

4) what magnification is sufficient for you, at the maximum range you're looking at? Eg. The 4x ACOG @400 yds, will look like shooting at 100 yards with irons, or an RDS.
 
Realistically, I’ll always be carrying a 9 for concealed carry. Hard to get away from 18 rds vs 5-8. But the compact power upgrade still appeals.

5 shot vs 18:
LrNIhtpl.jpg
 
carnifex knifeworks said:
So are you looking for something you could hunt with and defend yourself? Are you looking for a rifle or pistol? Define "reach".

If you're looking for a rifle as a single tool to do everything, my personal caliber preference is .308/7.62x51. Lots of firearm choices, wide selection of ammo that's readily available most places, manageable recoil, plenty of range, suitable for defense, and it's well suited for hunting antelope, deer, elk, or moose.

I'm sure some may disagree, but that's just my opinion.
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I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51
bluemax_1 said:
1) define reach (i.e. maximum range), and use (poking holes in paper? Hunting? Quite a difference between "enough to make holes in paper @500 yards", vs ethical hunting @500 yards).
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up to 350 yards
bluemax_1 said:
2) is this for a semi auto you already own (in which case; what caliber and barrel length? And question #1), or something you're looking at getting? (Back to question 1).
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I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51 with an 18'' barrel
bluemax_1 said:
3) have you ever used an ACOG? Are you comfortable with the whole "BAC/Bindon Aiming Concept" with a magnified optic? My main gripe with ACOGs, is that I personally found it a lot easier to hit multiple close range targets fast (2-gun and 3-gun) with 1x (either using an RDS, or 1x on an LPVO).
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never used an acog, or A Y really high end optic options. that's why I'm asking.
bluemax_1 said:
While I could do it with the ACOG, my brain just didn't handle the magnification as well as I could do it with both eyes open at 1x (and the Razor and Kahles are both amazing at 1x with both eyes open. The 'ring' of the tube pretty much disappears).
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I've read that the 1x on variable power optics isnt REALLY 1x. That doesnt really concern me as much as being able to be accurate at medium to max range of the firearm's capabilities.
bluemax_1 said:
4) what magnification is sufficient for you, at the maximum range you're looking at? Eg. The 4x ACOG @400 yds, will look like shooting at 100 yards with irons, or an RDS.
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I dont really know. I guess I'd be using this particular firearm for medium to longer ranges.
 
Timmy: FWIW I like simple things that are reliable. For potential defensive rifles I like Aimpoint Patrol Rifle Optic, and Leupold VX3 1.5-5 variables. On 1.5 power you can still see things quickly and you get on target quickly. There is a reason it is a favorite scope for dangerous animals. Just my thoughts.
 
tinfoil hat timmy said:
I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51

up to 350 yards

I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51 with an 18'' barrel

never used an acog, or A Y really high end optic options. that's why I'm asking.

I've read that the 1x on variable power optics isnt REALLY 1x. That doesnt really concern me as much as being able to be accurate at medium to max range of the firearm's capabilities.

I dont really know. I guess I'd be using this particular firearm for medium to longer ranges.
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My Apologies. I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for suggestions on a firearm, not for an optic.
I've been doing that a lot lately. I need to slow down when I'm reading these posts.

I'm a big fan of the Primary Arms 1-10x with the illuminated reticle for an LPVO. I think they're around $400-$600. Works great on my Virtus. For a 308 I like scopes with more magnification. The vortex strike eagle 3-18x44mm is a good value. If you don't mind spending more the Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44mm is a little higher quality, but about $1k more.
 
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tinfoil hat timmy said:
I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51

up to 350 yards

I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51 with an 18'' barrel

never used an acog, or A Y really high end optic options. that's why I'm asking.

I've read that the 1x on variable power optics isnt REALLY 1x. That doesnt really concern me as much as being able to be accurate at medium to max range of the firearm's capabilities.

I dont really know. I guess I'd be using this particular firearm for medium to longer ranges.
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I think choices for these uses are very personal and what one person swears by another may find doesn't work well for them. My best advice would be to find a good store and put hands on to see what you like.

An Acog is certainly a great option, but isn't my first choice if I'm spending that kind of money. My personal preferences would be either an Eotech with a magnifier or a LPVO like a Trijicon Accupoint or Credo or Eotech Vudu if you prefer one piece of equipment. Not USA made but Holosun (although not a true holographic sight) does not give any starburst affects for me either and are less expensive if that's a factor.

The holographic/red dot sights are fast to aquire targets and shoot with both eyes open out to 150 to 200. I prefer Holographic sights, for me they are a great choice for my eyes getting older with astigmatism. I much prefer something like the Eotech for moving and shooting. Add a magnifier and Im good out to 350 - 400 and in a pinch can stretch that a bit. My personal preference for a short to midrange carbine would have this type setup.

If you will be more stationary or shooting over 300 yards I might lean towards an LPVO or even a conventional scope with good eye relief like a scout scope. In my opinion it takes more trigger time to get comfortable with a scout scope style setup. The less I planned to move and the farther I planned to shoot the more I'd lean towards a conventional scope.

But there is no substitute for hands on, looking through the scopes to get an idea what your preferences will be.

All that said ... you can mount a red dot on an Acog as another option for close range fast acquisition shooting.
 
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tinfoil hat timmy said:
I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51

1) up to 350 yards

2) I may or may not own a semiautomatic rifle in 7.62x51 with an 18'' barrel

never used an acog, or A Y really high end optic options. that's why I'm asking.

3) I've read that the 1x on variable power optics isnt REALLY 1x. That doesnt really concern me as much as being able to be accurate at medium to max range of the firearm's capabilities.

I dont really know. I guess I'd be using this particular firearm for medium to longer ranges.
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OK, that helps narrow things down.

The various ACOGs have different magnifications. The 4x was the most common in the military, but the eye relief on those models is very narrow/short (they're basically designed for NTCH Nose-To-Charging-Handle shooting, with 5.56. When used that way, they have a pretty wide FOV at 4x compared to other optics).

There are other ACOGs with different magnification, including the ones I have, which are 3.5x. They're bigger, and weigh more than the 4x versions, but the BDC (Bullet Drop Compensation) reticle and subtensions were designed for 7.62x51, (and also work decently well with 77gr 5.56), AND they have longer eye relief, which is helpful with 7.62x51, vs 5.56.

*** numbered the points in your responses

1) @350 yards, with 3.5x, the target is equivalent to shooting at 100 yards with no magnification. How adequate/comfortable you are with that, is an individual thing.

With a 1-6x LPVO, @6x, a 350yd target will look about equivalent to a target @~58yds with the naked eye/no magnification.

2) 7.62x51/.308 and an 18" barrel. While perhaps not the recommended choice, has enough ft-lbs for even elk sized targets @350yds (recommended 1500 ft-lbs minimum, at target distance).

3) this is optic dependent, but the Razor and Kahles 1-6x definitely ARE 1x. Some other optics (like the one someone else mentioned above) are 1.5x, and even some red dots aren't 1x (IIRC, when I looked through a Trijicon MRO Patrol, I had the impression that it wasn't a true 1x. Either that or the distortion made it seem that way), but I have both Aimpoint red dots, and the Razor and Kahles, and they're all true 1x and are very easy/fast to use.

4) price. ACOGs are still somewhere around the $1k range. The older, heavier non 'E' version of the Razor 1-6x can be found for under $1k, and even the 'E' versions could be found on sale for $999 every so often, so price seems a wash (though you'd still need a mount for the LPVO).
 
I’m carried almost everything what I have. I love a heavy handgun, in 90x I’m carried Browning HP, but I came to the conclusion that I don’t need so much for a short fight and I began to carry sig 238 in 380 acp with 3 extended mags. So much exciting with this.
PS. 686 is great revolver overall , but if you need exceptional action, try 66 or 27 ( I have no dash and not sure that the modern models does the same)
 
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