Carothers and Guns

Casinostocks said:
I waited till this AM to post a more cogent general response and I also wanted to thank you for your nod toward this purchase and also generally being in the same boat with me vis a vis indoor shooting facilities.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that I was and I still am a bit apprehensive about purchasing a revolver and in particular a S&W one! Those who have come to know of me in here will probably agree that I'm quite a geek and a wonk if you will :) I tend to read a lot, talk a lot and get my state now mind in a pretzel in over researching things :D

There's a litany of reported issues with S&W all over the Interwebs but getting deeper into revolvers, you'll find out that there are many reported issues and dissatisfactions with revolvers in general. We can get into a more serious debate about revolvers vs semi-autos pros & cons, but for me it came down to 2 main factors:

1- I'm currently on a gun collection trip

2- Revolvers are by and large reported to be reliable (<--- caveat emptor applies)

Now, I have spent more $ with much less angst particularly with CPK and also considering my past proclivities spending like twice as much on pricey marques such as Shirogorov. Being an ardent customer of Nathan / Jo is in a completely different category because as long as I'm not hoarding and / or flipping CPKs for immediate profits, I am supporting a budding small American business which produces the best bang for the buck fixed blades. Not cheap by any means but great value. The matrix is very simple in the case of CPK: one can go fully custom and easily spend 2 x as much but end up getting 1/2 as good! I'm not kidding! OK, now I'm digressing but CPK always has to get its due props :D

Fire arms are no knives though as the later can relatively easily be moved if the buyer is unhappy/dissatisfied with the product or just decides to change lifestyle/hobbies. But when one lives in a very gun restrictive gun state like I do, what you purchase will most likely stay with you for good, whether you get a great one or a turd! I'm no revolver expert by any means and in fact I would tag myself as quite a novice. That said, I did do my due diligence and visually inspected the 686-6 SSR a couple of times before I committed to staring the process and putting down a good chunk of change on it already.

I inspected it for obvious visual defects and there was none that jumped at me immediately but my eye sight is not what it used to be and my everyday progressive lens glasses are not as good as my magnifying glasses! I didn't notice any obvious front sight/barrel cant, I didn't notice as obvious burr on the finish, I felt that while dry firing the DA pull was smooth and was not stacking on me. The cylinder felt didn't feel like having unacceptable play while dry-firing from one chamber to the next and the back & forth play was also nothing glaringly obvious. All that said, things may change when I bring it home and start going super anal on it!!!

To go full circle back to my above 1 & 2 criteria, I would be mighty p*ssed if an almost $1000 out-the-door S&W Pro-Series starts to jam and seize up when practicing with it, specially with magnum ammo! I'm not expecting a wheelgun which never fails without any maintenance through 1000s of rounds but by the same token, I'm not expecting a pretty looking paperweight either.

In closing, I consider myself as being both practical and pragmatic. I understand that S&W has a stout CS and lifetime warranty and I also accept that with the modern advents in CAD and CNC, it will be unreasonable to expect the quality of the gunsmithing and workmanship which was norm like 3-4 decades ago. I just want and expect a good & honest QC by someone competent before a modern revolver leaves the factory destined for the retailers display to give the customer an honest chance of getting the bang he expects for his buck (pun!)
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:thumbsup: Nice choice Mat! I’ve admired the S&W 686 4” barrel revolver for a while, and I really regret not pulling the trigger on one back in in the eighties. Now you’re making rethink about getting one now. You enabler! :D
 
gusbuster said:
:thumbsup: Nice choice Mat! I’ve admired the S&W 686 4” barrel revolver for a while, and I really regret not pulling the trigger on one back in in the eighties. Now you’re making rethink about getting one now. You enabler! :D
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There he is, my fave CPK & revolvers friend :D

Leave the GusMeister a few revolver morsels here and there, and he will show up for his treats :P

J/K, luv Ya Gus :)
 
It's true the quality of firearms in general isn't what it was ... many companies changed hands or cut corners to stay afloat. But I see a lot of improvements over the last few years from a period where I wouldn't purchase a "new" firearm ... instead opted for older proven models.

I think the manufacturers realized people wouldn't just lay good money down for whatever they threw out and the better brands focused more on the quality lately.

I still hate a lot of the cheap finishes to cut costs such as matte finishes over a beautiful deep bluing. But a discerning buyer can find some nice offers if they don't rush into it.

I still prefer the older standards and keep my eyes open for good values there when possible.

But the two S&W Pro Series Revolvers I own both shoot great and S&W are easy to change out the springs and do a bit of trigger work to if a person is inclined to do so. And even if someone doesn't feel comfortable doing it themselves it doesn't cost a fortune to have a good gunsmith do that if they want the best possible trigger they can have.
 
Casinostocks said:
I waited till this AM to post a more cogent general response and I also wanted to thank you for your nod toward this purchase and also generally being in the same boat with me vis a vis indoor shooting facilities.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that I was and I still am a bit apprehensive about purchasing a revolver and in particular a S&W one! Those who have come to know of me in here will probably agree that I'm quite a geek and a wonk if you will :) I tend to read a lot, talk a lot and get my state now mind in a pretzel in over researching things :D

There's a litany of reported issues with S&W all over the Interwebs but getting deeper into revolvers, you'll find out that there are many reported issues and dissatisfactions with revolvers in general. We can get into a more serious debate about revolvers vs semi-autos pros & cons, but for me it came down to 2 main factors:

1- I'm currently on a gun collection trip

2- Revolvers are by and large reported to be reliable (<--- caveat emptor applies)

Now, I have spent more $ with much less angst particularly with CPK and also considering my past proclivities spending like twice as much on pricey marques such as Shirogorov. Being an ardent customer of Nathan / Jo is in a completely different category because as long as I'm not hoarding and / or flipping CPKs for immediate profits, I am supporting a budding small American business which produces the best bang for the buck fixed blades. Not cheap by any means but great value. The matrix is very simple in the case of CPK: one can go fully custom and easily spend 2 x as much but end up getting 1/2 as good! I'm not kidding! OK, now I'm digressing but CPK always has to get its due props :D

Fire arms are no knives though as the later can relatively easily be moved if the buyer is unhappy/dissatisfied with the product or just decides to change lifestyle/hobbies. But when one lives in a very gun restrictive gun state like I do, what you purchase will most likely stay with you for good, whether you get a great one or a turd! I'm no revolver expert by any means and in fact I would tag myself as quite a novice. That said, I did do my due diligence and visually inspected the 686-6 SSR a couple of times before I committed to staring the process and putting down a good chunk of change on it already.

I inspected it for obvious visual defects and there was none that jumped at me immediately but my eye sight is not what it used to be and my everyday progressive lens glasses are not as good as my magnifying glasses! I didn't notice any obvious front sight/barrel cant, I didn't notice as obvious burr on the finish, I felt that while dry firing the DA pull was smooth and was not stacking on me. The cylinder felt didn't feel like having unacceptable play while dry-firing from one chamber to the next and the back & forth play was also nothing glaringly obvious. All that said, things may change when I bring it home and start going super anal on it!!!

To go full circle back to my above 1 & 2 criteria, I would be mighty p*ssed if an almost $1000 out-the-door S&W Pro-Series starts to jam and seize up when practicing with it, specially with magnum ammo! I'm not expecting a wheelgun which never fails without any maintenance through 1000s of rounds but by the same token, I'm not expecting a pretty looking paperweight either.

In closing, I consider myself as being both practical and pragmatic. I understand that S&W has a stout CS and lifetime warranty and I also accept that with the modern advents in CAD and CNC, it will be unreasonable to expect the quality of the gunsmithing and workmanship which was norm like 3-4 decades ago. I just want and expect a good & honest QC by someone competent before a modern revolver leaves the factory destined for the retailers display to give the customer an honest chance of getting the bang he expects for his buck (pun!)
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One of the things I like about the GP100, is how robust they are (at least the older ones).

One of the common models for folks who like to push the limits when reloading.

That said, S&W's triggers definitely have a nicer feel. You can do a polish job on Ruger's triggers, but I recall reading a comment about the GP100's D/A trigger that literally made me laugh out loud.

The commenter said something along the lines of, "Yeah, the GP100's looong DA trigger pull is like a safety. It's like the gun is saying, "Are you suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure?BANG!!!"":p


P.S.
For inspiration, here's another old guy with an S&W wheelgun
 
Casinostocks said:
I waited till this AM to post a more cogent general response and I also wanted to thank you for your nod toward this purchase and also generally being in the same boat with me vis a vis indoor shooting facilities.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that I was and I still am a bit apprehensive about purchasing a revolver and in particular a S&W one! Those who have come to know of me in here will probably agree that I'm quite a geek and a wonk if you will :) I tend to read a lot, talk a lot and get my state now mind in a pretzel in over researching things :D

There's a litany of reported issues with S&W all over the Interwebs but getting deeper into revolvers, you'll find out that there are many reported issues and dissatisfactions with revolvers in general. We can get into a more serious debate about revolvers vs semi-autos pros & cons, but for me it came down to 2 main factors:

1- I'm currently on a gun collection trip

2- Revolvers are by and large reported to be reliable (<--- caveat emptor applies)

Now, I have spent more $ with much less angst particularly with CPK and also considering my past proclivities spending like twice as much on pricey marques such as Shirogorov. Being an ardent customer of Nathan / Jo is in a completely different category because as long as I'm not hoarding and / or flipping CPKs for immediate profits, I am supporting a budding small American business which produces the best bang for the buck fixed blades. Not cheap by any means but great value. The matrix is very simple in the case of CPK: one can go fully custom and easily spend 2 x as much but end up getting 1/2 as good! I'm not kidding! OK, now I'm digressing but CPK always has to get its due props :D

Fire arms are no knives though as the later can relatively easily be moved if the buyer is unhappy/dissatisfied with the product or just decides to change lifestyle/hobbies. But when one lives in a very gun restrictive gun state like I do, what you purchase will most likely stay with you for good, whether you get a great one or a turd! I'm no revolver expert by any means and in fact I would tag myself as quite a novice. That said, I did do my due diligence and visually inspected the 686-6 SSR a couple of times before I committed to staring the process and putting down a good chunk of change on it already.

I inspected it for obvious visual defects and there was none that jumped at me immediately but my eye sight is not what it used to be and my everyday progressive lens glasses are not as good as my magnifying glasses! I didn't notice any obvious front sight/barrel cant, I didn't notice as obvious burr on the finish, I felt that while dry firing the DA pull was smooth and was not stacking on me. The cylinder felt didn't feel like having unacceptable play while dry-firing from one chamber to the next and the back & forth play was also nothing glaringly obvious. All that said, things may change when I bring it home and start going super anal on it!!!

To go full circle back to my above 1 & 2 criteria, I would be mighty p*ssed if an almost $1000 out-the-door S&W Pro-Series starts to jam and seize up when practicing with it, specially with magnum ammo! I'm not expecting a wheelgun which never fails without any maintenance through 1000s of rounds but by the same token, I'm not expecting a pretty looking paperweight either.

In closing, I consider myself as being both practical and pragmatic. I understand that S&W has a stout CS and lifetime warranty and I also accept that with the modern advents in CAD and CNC, it will be unreasonable to expect the quality of the gunsmithing and workmanship which was norm like 3-4 decades ago. I just want and expect a good & honest QC by someone competent before a modern revolver leaves the factory destined for the retailers display to give the customer an honest chance of getting the bang he expects for his buck (pun!)
Click to expand...

She'll go bang every time you pull the trigger brother
 
Hard Knocks said:
She'll go bang every time you pull the trigger brother
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A succinct yet assured approval from brother Dave, me likey :)

I am fairly certain that some Internet opinions emanate from folks with grudges but by the same token, I don't dismiss genuine and serious issues which affects some folks' experiences in adverse ways. I dunno, maybe its always prudent to apply a break-in period for a machine and its operator to familiarize? I'm a car guy so I often apply car analogies to man-machine situations:

If I go down the road to the nearest GM dealership to buy the newest Corvette which has all the racing bells and whistles for track, I know that it is a very bad idea to take that Vette to the nearest track to race the sh*t outta it on its first outing! Maybe a new gun, in particular a wheel gun needs a certain degree of gentle breaking-in before its tolerances are truly tested? Maybe a few sessions of practicing with lesser 38+P rounds, cleaning and lubing the revolver well after each practice run till things mesh together like one expects them to, if this makes any sense?

Yes, I do tend to overthink things ;)
 
If you are not real well versed in revolvers and want to shoot 38's first, then switch to 357, but sure to clean the chambers very well. The 38 being shorter will leave a build up and make chambering 357's more difficult. In extreme cases more trouble. That said, it's a big heavy pistol and if recoil is not an issue it should have no trouble handling a lifetime of shooting with factory spec 357 loads. I've owned many and still have my 4" 686+ (7 shot, probably illegal in Cali ;)) and it's never had a hiccup. There's plenty to discuss around grain weight of the bullet, especially in 357. Lighter bullets are more punishing on the shooter and the frame than heavier ones.

I like Ruger's for their strength and locking method but as mentioned, they just aren't as refined and even tuned leave a bit to be desired IMO. (that's not the case with their SA's though)

Smith has been known to make a stout revolver that has a long history of shooting max loads, it's the Model 28 and nicer version the Model 27. These were 6-shot N Frames.

Here's my mid-1950's era Pre-28 Highway Patrolman alongside my nickel model 10-2.. I like any S&W Revolver but especially go for the cougars ;)

IMG_3721.jpg
 
Chad just FYI, 7 or 8 shot revolvers are not illegal in Cali as long as they are on the CA-DOJ's roster of handguns. CA is strictly a 10+1 round max capacity in any type of gun unless they had been grandfathered (I've forgotten the cut off year) and that they stay at home strictly for home defense (I think that there's case pending in CA appellate court).
 
cpirtle said:
I know, I was just messing with you regarding the "high capacity cylinder" on the 686 + :D
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NP ;) For about the same $, I could've equally gone with a 686+ Deluxe which this dealer had in stock or could've gone with a GP100 Match Champion at my "local" Bass Pro shops, all in the mid 8s. In my warped sense of car-dealer mentality, the 686SSR seemed like the best "deal" despite losing that one round:

First off, the prices which one sees online in the much less restrictive gun states are very different to CA retail prices. Of course one can order from anywhere and as long as a designated FFL accepts to do the paperwork, the FFL fees here in CA can run anywhere from $50 to $100; so you add insured shipping in most cases and end up at what a local reputable gun dealer is going to be asking anyway. I may have touched upon this before but when it comes to guns, I rather buy locally and support a local guy who runs a tight ship despite knowing full well that I could be saving $50-$100 going the other route. The potential headache is just not worth it to me but this maxim only applies to buying guns in Cali.

Buying used guns is just way above my pay grade. I don't even look at the consignment stuff at this local guy's anymore even if the guy I know there gives me tips that this or that is a "good deal". If the tag says, "as-is" and "cash only", I walk away from it.
 
jn8zCk6.jpg
 
ManOfSteel89 said:
color me jealous. I can’t own a suppressor and it’s frowned upon for anybody to mail me 15rd mags.
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I remember well the Clinton/Brady assault weapons ban and having to pay $125 to get 17 rd G17 mags, I was glad when the sunset provision ended that ridiculous experiment in stupidity.
I celebrated by putting a few in inventory for the next time, unfortunately with what just happened in Virginia I have the feeling that I won’t be grandfathered in when they pass the next round.
 
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To my good CPK brethren:

I would like to politely ask that you to refrain from bringing too much of "gun politics" into this thread. I am neither the subforum host nor a moderator in any capacity so pardon me if I'm overstepping my boundaries! I just know that the CPK regulars are really cool folks who by and large stick to the no-politics / no-religion discussion decorum but since this threads shows up on the front page of Blade Forums as posts are added, the practice of talking about gun politics and individual state's policies may seek the sort of attention that will not be welcomed in here (remember that Nathan always reads every single post in here). After all, this thread was locked up by Nathan precisely because of such past transgressions but he was very kind to reconsider and unlock the thread based on my request after the coast had cleared. FWIW, this thread was on lock down for several m months!

Thank you :)
 
fonedork said:
Mat, you should get a Mateba unica 6, 686 is so vanilla :p
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Are you kidding me?

First of with my shooting prowess, if I aim say for the whole of Nigeria, I may just be able to hit Ghana :D Disclaimer: this was an anecdotal statement as I have no bias or prejudice against any country, nonetheless any which one in Africa and I can't even point out either of these two places on an unmarked map :p

Secondly, if I buy a top of the line gun for every CPK I own, I'd simply go broke so vanilla it shall be as it's not just the gun but the ammo/accessories thereafter. Being where I'm from, I tend to buy a vault for every gun and then I buy a vault for that first vault. Can never be too careful, ya know :D
 
Casinostocks said:
After all, this thread was locked up by Nathan precisely because of such past transgressions but he was very kind to reconsider and unlock the thread based on my request after the coast had cleared. FWIW, this thread was on lock down for several m months!
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And I was so looking forward to offering a rebuttal, of sorts, to the supressor issue, so much so I think the thread might have been closed yet again.......

I mean, like, I LIVE for these kinds of opportunities, lol......
 
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