Carothers Performance Knives, Use & Abuse

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But do we really need an extra thick CPK? I could send my Halligan bar and sledge hammer, but they're sort of prized mementos of my breaking and entering days. And they can't do what a CPK can do.

Whatever.

(If the CPKs I already have can't do the job...I probably shouldn't be doing it...is my prosaic take.)
 
janx said:
Didn't this guy break every knife he tested so far? I mean if the new extra thick CPK will survive without breaking then it would the first one so far 🤔
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No there are several he was unable to break. The ones I have seen so far are the Hultafors GK, the Mora Robust Pro, the Work Tuff Gear Ares (which split the brick), the Creely Folklore Beast, the Messerfeiber Survival Bushcraft Cavusch 2.0, the Cold Steel SR1 Lite, the Cold Steel Black Bear Bowie, and I’m sure there are others but I haven’t seen all the videos since there are a lot of them. Some didn’t break when you thought they would, others broke when you weren’t expecting it, and still others failed spectacularly that the test was over in a matter of minutes. The extremes of the bell curve make it really interesting. Like…a Mora Robust Pro? Really? But it survived, he couldn’t kill it. And he’s tested a lot of Moras, and all the rest bit the dust. The Garberg came real close.
 
Red Leader said:
No there are several he was unable to break. The ones I have seen so far are the Hultafors GK, the Mora Robust Pro, the Work Tuff Gear Ares (which split the brick), the Creely Folklore Beast, the Messerfeiber Survival Bushcraft Cavusch 2.0, the Cold Steel SR1 Lite, the Cold Steel Black Bear Bowie, and I’m sure there are others but I haven’t seen all the videos since there are a lot of them. Some didn’t break when you thought they would, others broke when you weren’t expecting it, and still others failed spectacularly that the test was over in a matter of minutes. The extremes of the bell curve make it really interesting. Like…a Mora Robust Pro? Really? But it survived, he couldn’t kill it. And he’s tested a lot of Moras, and all the rest bit the dust. The Garberg came real close.
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The BFK falls into that "when you weren't expecting it" group for me, but not because I wasn't expecting it to break (but of course I was hoping). The swing that finally broke it seemed kinda half-assed compared to the others...just a little wrist flick.
 
jlauffer said:
The BFK falls into that "when you weren't expecting it" group for me, but not because I wasn't expecting it to break (but of course I was hoping). The swing that finally broke it seemed kinda half-assed compared to the others...just a little wrist flick.
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Same. If it had survived, I would not have been surprised. The surprise was more that it broke than if it had survived, but it is plausible that there was already a big fracture that couldn’t be seen, and that last little bump did it. That happened with the Tops Operator 7, but he was able to catch it before total separation. That was at the brick.


That is why I was asking if there is any mitigation of stress risers that can be considered in a blade design that would help avoid a total blade failure resulting from the edge chipping. Maybe it is just a fact of life when talking about knifes with high edge retention. I think Nathan made some good points about toughness vs durability. It makes sense that if an edge mashes down, it may provide a dampening effect on harder edge stress risers at the expense of a more durable edge, or higher edge retention. So it begs the question…is there a knife steel or process that allows the edge to mash/soften instead of break/chip/crack, but it just takes more effort to get to that point?
 
I already loved my BFK, but after watching that video I love it even more! Super impressive edge durability! I am an international customer (in Norway) that have bought directly from you before. I hope you’ll allow me to buy another 😊 If I manage to be fast enough on the sales. Thanks for making knives that can handle reasonable hard use and still cut good (like a knife should).
 
Red Leader said:
No there are several he was unable to break. The ones I have seen so far are the Hultafors GK, the Mora Robust Pro, the Work Tuff Gear Ares (which split the brick), the Creely Folklore Beast, the Messerfeiber Survival Bushcraft Cavusch 2.0, the Cold Steel SR1 Lite, the Cold Steel Black Bear Bowie, and I’m sure there are others but I haven’t seen all the videos since there are a lot of them. Some didn’t break when you thought they would, others broke when you weren’t expecting it, and still others failed spectacularly that the test was over in a matter of minutes. The extremes of the bell curve make it really interesting. Like…a Mora Robust Pro? Really? But it survived, he couldn’t kill it. And he’s tested a lot of Moras, and all the rest bit the dust. The Garberg came real close.
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And the Messerfieber Black Tufan, a 5,5 mm thick knife made in 50crv4/6150, european spring steel, a steel that I like a lot and that I have some big knives made with.
 
Joe's destruction of the TRC Apocalypse in Elmax stands a notable example to me. 6mm thick, and the edge started to chip away like tempered glass once it started, then it shattered half way down the tang. Some really bad head treat on that knife I think.
 
Kulainn said:
Joe's destruction of the TRC Apocalypse in Elmax stands a notable example to me. 6mm thick, and the edge started to chip away like tempered glass once it started, then it shattered half way down the tang. Some really bad head treat on that knife I think.
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Elmax can be very durable
 
Red Leader said:
Same. If it had survived, I would not have been surprised. The surprise was more that it broke than if it had survived, but it is plausible that there was already a big fracture that couldn’t be seen, and that last little bump did it. That happened with the Tops Operator 7, but he was able to catch it before total separation. That was at the brick.


That is why I was asking if there is any mitigation of stress risers that can be considered in a blade design that would help avoid a total blade failure resulting from the edge chipping. Maybe it is just a fact of life when talking about knifes with high edge retention. I think Nathan made some good points about toughness vs durability. It makes sense that if an edge mashes down, it may provide a dampening effect on harder edge stress risers at the expense of a more durable edge, or higher edge retention. So it begs the question…is there a knife steel or process that allows the edge to mash/soften instead of break/chip/crack, but it just takes more effort to get to that point?
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Screenshot_20240922_152803_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20240922_152810_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20240922_152936_Gallery.jpg


Yeah it took pretty serious edge damage, in the concrete block I think, which is where the crack propagated from.

Our edge thickness and edge angle is thinner than most and it ended up being the failure point for this particular blade.

I'm making him a new blade to tryout that's thicker and more obtuse, more like other makers knives, and I expect it won't have that same failure mode.

He did beat on that pole for quite a while before it finally broke. My guess is there was a crack that was working its way up and it finally let go.

Our knives are pretty tough, but our focus is on durability in rough use and a hard strong edge is more durable than a soft mushy one. We are pursuing edge retention and high performance, and are not solely focused on just toughness. I felt his test demonstrated a pretty insane level of toughness for a knife of this type and I was satisfied with the outcome, but for folks who want to see a knife not break, the knife I'm sending him is a little bit more stout and is probably going to do a little better on this particular test.
 
Kulainn said:
Joe's destruction of the TRC Apocalypse in Elmax stands a notable example to me. 6mm thick, and the edge started to chip away like tempered glass once it started, then it shattered half way down the tang. Some really bad head treat on that knife I think.
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I think it was the steel. As N690, people insist in using it in "hard use knives". Unless it's a slicer, those steels shouldn't be used in the type of knives they are used.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
View attachment 2669385View attachment 2669386View attachment 2669387


Yeah it took pretty serious edge damage, in the concrete block I think, which is where the crack propagated from.

Our edge thickness and edge angle is thinner than most and it ended up being the failure point for this particular blade.

I'm making him a new blade to tryout that's thicker and more obtuse, more like other makers knives, and I expect it won't have that same failure mode.

He did beat on that pole for quite a while before it finally broke. My guess is there was a crack that was working its way up and it finally let go.

Our knives are pretty tough, but our focus is on durability in rough use and a hard strong edge is more durable than a soft mushy one. We are pursuing edge retention and high performance, and are not solely focused on just toughness. I felt his test demonstrated a pretty insane level of toughness for a knife of this type and I was satisfied with the outcome, but for folks who want to see a knife not break, the knife I'm sending him is a little bit more stout and is probably going to do a little better on this particular test.
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Your knife behaved very well and should be a great companion in the woods. Any knife that survives 'El Brico" has more than enough toughness.
 
I wouldn’t send that guy anything except all the boogers you had left over from the bfk sale. I didn’t watch all the videos but my issue is, why do cover your face for a review. It doesn’t appear for safety reasons and if he’s a member of some special forces don’t wear that uniform. All the knives are setup to fail, it’s not if it fails but when. The bfk for the size, profile and weight did the best.
 
steelhunting said:
I wouldn’t send that guy anything except all the boogers you had left over from the bfk sale. I didn’t watch all the videos but my issue is, why do cover your face for a review. It doesn’t appear for safety reasons and if he’s a member of some special forces don’t wear that uniform. All the knives are setup to fail, it’s not if it fails but when. The bfk for the size, profile and weight did the best.
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Covering his face is fine (for whatever reasons), but I don't get the gas mask? Got to be a better choice that still hides his face while providing protection, better vision, and better audio clarity.
 
steelhunting said:
I wouldn’t send that guy anything except all the boogers you had left over from the bfk sale. I didn’t watch all the videos but my issue is, why do cover your face for a review. It doesn’t appear for safety reasons and if he’s a member of some special forces don’t wear that uniform. All the knives are setup to fail, it’s not if it fails but when. The bfk for the size, profile and weight did the best.
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If it makes you feel any better, I haven't seen any of his videos and only heard of him hereabouts recently after some sort of brouhaha or other which, frankly, I know little about and don't care to know.

As long as everyone turns in their shooting irons when they ride into town, and leave before sundown if'n they got no reason to stay, they won't end up in Boot Hill with some of the othern.

🤣 👮‍♂️ 🚔 🤣
 
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