Carothers vs Fiddleback

Tim the Wizard

Street Samurai
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Apr 21, 2012
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Replacing "vs." with "and"

Wildertools Wengaxe

and

Carothers Ancient Zombie LC

and

Fiddleback Buckeye Terrasaur

KiO4V9C.jpg


Competent trio
 

Bmurray

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Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
6,919
I watched that myth getting debunked by the Mythbusters Team, version 1.0 (the cast finally changed after like 10 years for their newest season which started in late 2017). If the knife is already drawn and the assailant is both fast and accurate while the handgun is still holstered, there's a chance that the knife attacker can have his knife already sunken into the gunman's neck or heart, before the gunman has had a chance to fire a shot, as long as the distance between the two is less than 15 feet or so. Of course the gun owner's skills, reflexes and training makes crucial differences in the outcome, but if we're talking about a willful knife attacker who can close a short distance very fast with a 6" or longer blade versus an unsuspecting handgun slinger, the outcome may surprise a lot of people!
But you forgot the defense side. If you have to draw something to defend yourself you’re better off drawing a Glock than a knife. This isn’t the days of the Roman Empire and sword fighting or Indiana Jones.
 
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
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Sorry, but you're all missing the key to staying alive. When it comes to two armed people encountering each other, the one who wins is he or she who reacts (begins shooting) without thought. Anyone who has ever had to shoot someone in defense of their own life knows what I mean. Of course, this is just IMHO, but having had to do it. It's a matter of not thinking, but acting.

A lot of interesting points raised but Mr. Bob raised a topic worth repeating. It's not the best armed, the best trained, whatever. It's the dude most willing to act. No hesitation, no debate, no moralizing. If you take a minute to think about what the other guy's family will think, how it will affect them, how they will mourn, what he might accomplish if he lived longer.. you're a dead man or worse, one of your friends is dead. Those are definitely questions that it's better to be alive to think about after the fact.

To the original CPK vs FBF question.. nothing will answer that question till the OP has held them both in his hands. Personally, I don't like CPK because of their steel use. Never have. They make knives with amazingly comfortable handles and that's what it's all about to me. The superb steel is nice, but Nathan and crew could make their knives in 1084 and I'd be just as much a fan.
 

Casinostocks

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A lot of interesting points raised but Mr. Bob raised a topic worth repeating. It's not the best armed, the best trained, whatever. It's the dude most willing to act. No hesitation, no debate, no moralizing. If you take a minute to think about what the other guy's family will think, how it will affect them, how they will mourn, what he might accomplish if he lived longer.. you're a dead man or worse, one of your friends is dead. Those are definitely questions that it's better to be alive to think about after the fact.

To the original CPK vs FBF question.. nothing will answer that question till the OP has held them both in his hands. Personally, I don't like CPK FBF because of their steel use. Never have. They make knives with amazingly comfortable handles and that's what it's all about to me. The superb steel is nice, but Nathan and crew could make their knives in 1084 and I'd be just as much a fan.

It's OK for me to edit Grog's post because he didn't proof read it entirely and also I have semi adopted him :)
 

Lorien

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Personally, I don't like CPK because of their steel use. Never have. They make knives with amazingly comfortable handles and that's what it's all about to me. The superb steel is nice, but Nathan and crew could make their knives in 1084 and I'd be just as much a fan.

best compliment ever!
 
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Messages
907
Figured I throw my 2 cents into the mix as a complete CPK newbie. :)

I purchased my first ever CPK, an HDFK, from the secondary market about a month ago. Unfortunately (for me), I shipped it right back to the seller. Not because of the knife in any way, but due to the seller coming to regret having sold it. I've been in that position before myself, and people have graciously helped me out in that situation, so I decided to pass that along without regret.

That said, I did get to handle it for a good few hours before packing it back up, and got a good feel for it. It felt absolutely stellar in hand, and the level of fit an finish was some of the best I've ever seen. The depth of the fullers, balance and overall weight really surprised me. It felt amazingly lively in hand. I truly look forward to the day that I'm able to purchase, or trade for another CPK (hopefully an HDFK!).

Since then, however, I've gone out and picked up a Fiddleback Production Duke, and it is really growing on me. Something I truly did appreciate about the FBF over the CPK was not only the price difference (CPK secondary market prices), but the fact that the FBF is a stocked item. It makes it really easy to source without issue or delays.

The first thing I noticed was how similar it looked in terms of design and machining to the Carothers. I've since been told that @Nathan the Machinist does the machining for the Mid-Tech FBF line... Is that true? If so, it would certainly explain the machining similarities. Deep plunges, superbly accurate primary grinds, the handle texturing etc.

The fit and finish on the Duke isn't perfect. The end of the handle was sanded a little crooked, but was easy fixed with some emery, and the secondary bevel continues a little further towards the plunge line than it should. Other than that though, the overall construction, primary grinds, handle etc are perfect. The polished stonewash looks amazing as well.

Considering the perfectly ground primary bevels, thin stock, thin edge, constantly curving edge profile, light weight, perfect neutral balance, a perfect handle with removable scales, very well done S35VN, and all in an easy to find package... As a user, I'm blown away. Honestly.

Of course, you don't get D3V with the FBF, but for what I do, and where I live (PNW rainforest), the S35VN with a Peter's HT is shaping up to be some really solid stuff. It's actually performing better than I thought it would, and is highly corrosion resistant. Of course I'd love a blade with D3V, but for the money and ease of sourcing, this Duke is going to be a solid user for a long time without a doubt.

To me, this production Duke is the perfect substitute for a CPK.


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Casinostocks

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Wood Splitter, thank you for your contribution and I hope that you manage to get yourself that CPK (HDFK was it?) at the listed CPK price the next time when the pattern returns for some more regular Fridays sales during this 2018. In fact he you continue to appear in here and decide to contribute more regularly, I'm pretty sure that one of our regular Fridays sales "veterans" will step up to proxy a purchase for you. If you have not heard about the proxy purchase procedure on here, there are plenty of material to search and research for on this subforum.

One point which I would like to make and emphasis on is as follows and although it may sound subjective, I'm really hoping that my points are made objectively. IMHO, the FBF Duke is NOT a perfect substitute for any CPK for several reasons, although it seems to fit one very crucial criteria well for you, i.e, the nature of your climate in the PNW. First of all, CPK does not have any 5" to 5.5" blade length pattern. Their old FK blade length is a smidgen over 4.5" and their HDFK while shorter than the FBF Camp Knife, it is a good 1+" longer than the Duke. In fact, the former FBF is a much better alternative WRT the HDFK if one finds it impossible to scare an HDFK other than paying up the secondary market's premiums. That now retired FK was retailing for around $225-$235 IIRC, but if you should be one of the fortunate ones who own one or multiple ones of those, you can truly appreciate as to why it is such a sought after knife specially in Nathan's D3V HT, which was being marketed at "on sale" prices by CPK. NO HYPE!!! Keep your ears to the ground for the upcoming FK 2.0 slated for late 2018.

Finally, if I were to be a constant and heavy duty user of knives and if I did not wish to constantly beat up on my prized CPKs, I would most definitely consider adding some production pattern FBF's to my user knives roster.
 

Bmurray

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Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
6,919
I have both the Duke and FK. The Duke outshines imo because if the thinner stock and feels more nimble in the hand. A lot like the old Esee6 with similar balance and feel of a bigger knife but still able to do smaller work. The FK would feel even better in thinner stock.

The fbf camp knife is a good camp knife but like the HDFK, made for a completely different task that the Duke or fk. No way I’d want either of these big knives for anything other than chipping or splitting, and would hate to belt carry either. I think the EDC knives of Nathan’s is the cats meow when it comes to a great useable knife that everyone should own.
 
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
907
IIRC the handles and blanks are done by CPK, and FBF does the final assembly and puts the edge on.

Not sure if this is still accurate.

I believe its still the same process

Thanks guys! That's what I thought.


Wood Splitter, thank you for your contribution and I hope that you manage to get yourself that CPK (HDFK was it?) at the listed CPK price the next time when the pattern returns for some more regular Fridays sales during this 2018. In fact he you continue to appear in here and decide to contribute more regularly, I'm pretty sure that one of our regular Fridays sales "veterans" will step up to proxy a purchase for you. If you have not heard about the proxy purchase procedure on here, there are plenty of material to search and research for on this subforum.

One point which I would like to make and emphasis on is as follows and although it may sound subjective, I'm really hoping that my points are made objectively. IMHO, the FBF Duke is NOT a perfect substitute for any CPK for several reasons, although it seems to fit one very crucial criteria well for you, i.e, the nature of your climate in the PNW. First of all, CPK does not have any 5" to 5.5" blade length pattern. Their old FK blade length is a smidgen over 4.5" and their HDFK while shorter than the FBF Camp Knife, it is a good 1+" longer than the Duke. In fact, the former FBF is a much better alternative WRT the HDFK if one finds it impossible to scare an HDFK other than paying up the secondary market's premiums. That now retired FK was retailing for around $225-$235 IIRC, but if you should be one of the fortunate ones who own one or multiple ones of those, you can truly appreciate as to why it is such a sought after knife specially in Nathan's D3V HT, which was being marketed at "on sale" prices by CPK. NO HYPE!!! Keep your ears to the ground for the upcoming FK 2.0 slated for late 2018.

Finally, if I were to be a constant and heavy duty user of knives and if I did not wish to constantly beat up on my prized CPKs, I would most definitely consider adding some production pattern FBF's to my user knives roster.

Very solid points sir! I suppose what I meant was more along the lines of the Duke (or the whole FBF production line) being a solid substitute for CPK, just due to the way it's made. Not necessarily a replacement for a specific model. It's very comparable in looks, machining (for apparent reasons), quality (lower than a CPK, IMO, but still better than a lot out there) and function. It is precision machined, has beautiful removable scales (a huge plus for me), and it's a high performance, thinly ground blade which is actually made to cut. Just like CPK. After so many years of brutish blades, I'm overjoyed to have found knives which are actually intended to cut! :)

I'll certainly have to look into saving up some funds and just wait to score an HDFK directly, or via proxy, as you say. I do know a handful of members here from other forums who may be willing to proxy for me, but I'll have to focus on the funding first.

I will say, that FK 2.0 has me very intrigued. The 5" to 6" blade length, especially without a choil is likely my favorite size for a general purpose belt knife. Works well for just about everything I do. From fire prep to food prep, and giving me a little (perhaps false) comfort when alone deep in mountain lion territory.

I'm a user, but I appreciate high levels of fit and finish and as well. Always have. I'm also a member of Ground SAR here in BC, and when we go out, there's a chance that any gear you take might not come back, depending on what goes on. Technically, it is covered and will be replaced if destroyed or damaged, but a CPK wouldn't exactly be the easiest thing to go get a replacement of.



Two years ago, when I went through my 36 hour survival exam, I chose the humble Buck 119 as my primary blade. Not because I didn't have anything better, or stronger, but because I simply enjoyed the way the 119 felt in hand, and cut. It is a light and nimble blade, and cuts very well at a low price point, and is easy to find locally in brick and mortar stores.

There was a province wide fire ban, so no fire prep, and we were carrying our normal packs with our normal personal gear, including a tarp. So all I really needed to do was tension cut and de-limb some saplings for a road block tripod.

Took out 3 or 4 wrist thick, green Alder saplings this same way. All in all, the 119 did its job flawlessly, and I absolutely adore how light weight it is for it's size. It has enough length that when used with a snap cut, it actually carries enough force to effectively limb saplings, but is light and nimble enough for fine cutting tasks. This, combined with the full handle, allows you to really bear down on the knife when tension cutting.

Of course, the 119 has its obvious downsides as a primary wilderness blade. The lack of a full broad tang, and the clicking in the handle when force is applied side to side, as well as the free floating guard, keep me from carrying it regularly. I'm actually alright with the steel, and find it performs about as well as 1095, albeit less tough.

dX5tbxg.jpg



That said, the Duke seems to be the perfect replacement for the 119, with CPK like qualities.

They're both roughly the same size, the 119 is 7.5oz with a neutral balance, the Duke is 8.5 oz with a neutral balance... The 119 is a deep hollow primary which lends to great cutting ability, but the Duke with it's 5/32" thick stock and high flat saber grind absolutely blows it away.

The Duke also has an insanely comfortable handle, and it really lends itself well to controlling the edge with great certainty and comfort.

Honestly, I think this FBF Production Duke is becoming a favorite because it retains all the things I love about the 119, with a lot of the things I love about CPK, and modern blades in general.

That said, I will absolutely be trying to source a CPK when I can!

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JRW8Ya9.jpg


XvAjTbN.jpg


uBUCB9x.jpg
 

JustinFournier

Gold Member
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
4,971
Thanks guys! That's what I thought.




Very solid points sir! I suppose what I meant was more along the lines of the Duke (or the whole FBF production line) being a solid substitute for CPK, just due to the way it's made. Not necessarily a replacement for a specific model. It's very comparable in looks, machining (for apparent reasons), quality (lower than a CPK, IMO, but still better than a lot out there) and function. It is precision machined, has beautiful removable scales (a huge plus for me), and it's a high performance, thinly ground blade which is actually made to cut. Just like CPK. After so many years of brutish blades, I'm overjoyed to have found knives which are actually intended to cut! :)

I'll certainly have to look into saving up some funds and just wait to score an HDFK directly, or via proxy, as you say. I do know a handful of members here from other forums who may be willing to proxy for me, but I'll have to focus on the funding first.

I will say, that FK 2.0 has me very intrigued. The 5" to 6" blade length, especially without a choil is likely my favorite size for a general purpose belt knife. Works well for just about everything I do. From fire prep to food prep, and giving me a little (perhaps false) comfort when alone deep in mountain lion territory.

I'm a user, but I appreciate high levels of fit and finish and as well. Always have. I'm also a member of Ground SAR here in BC, and when we go out, there's a chance that any gear you take might not come back, depending on what goes on. Technically, it is covered and will be replaced if destroyed or damaged, but a CPK wouldn't exactly be the easiest thing to go get a replacement of.



Two years ago, when I went through my 36 hour survival exam, I chose the humble Buck 119 as my primary blade. Not because I didn't have anything better, or stronger, but because I simply enjoyed the way the 119 felt in hand, and cut. It is a light and nimble blade, and cuts very well at a low price point, and is easy to find locally in brick and mortar stores.

There was a province wide fire ban, so no fire prep, and we were carrying our normal packs with our normal personal gear, including a tarp. So all I really needed to do was tension cut and de-limb some saplings for a road block tripod.

Took out 3 or 4 wrist thick, green Alder saplings this same way. All in all, the 119 did its job flawlessly, and I absolutely adore how light weight it is for it's size. It has enough length that when used with a snap cut, it actually carries enough force to effectively limb saplings, but is light and nimble enough for fine cutting tasks. This, combined with the full handle, allows you to really bear down on the knife when tension cutting.

Of course, the 119 has its obvious downsides as a primary wilderness blade. The lack of a full broad tang, and the clicking in the handle when force is applied side to side, as well as the free floating guard, keep me from carrying it regularly. I'm actually alright with the steel, and find it performs about as well as 1095, albeit less tough.

dX5tbxg.jpg



That said, the Duke seems to be the perfect replacement for the 119, with CPK like qualities.

They're both roughly the same size, the 119 is 7.5oz with a neutral balance, the Duke is 8.5 oz with a neutral balance... The 119 is a deep hollow primary which lends to great cutting ability, but the Duke with it's 5/32" thick stock and high flat saber grind absolutely blows it away.

The Duke also has an insanely comfortable handle, and it really lends itself well to controlling the edge with great certainty and comfort.

Honestly, I think this FBF Production Duke is becoming a favorite because it retains all the things I love about the 119, with a lot of the things I love about CPK, and modern blades in general.

That said, I will absolutely be trying to source a CPK when I can!

X3FeBbx.jpg


JRW8Ya9.jpg


XvAjTbN.jpg


uBUCB9x.jpg

Where abouts in BC are ya? There are a few of us here that may be able to help you out.
 

Lorien

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Dec 5, 2005
Messages
20,665
right up the road:thumbsup:
Been thinkin on putting together some kind of cutlery oriented event on island for awhile now, enough knife folk around these parts to make for a fun time
 
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