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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Caveat Emptor zakjak221
- Thread starter Hoka
- Start date
Ill try it again. To make the images show up in the thread, open the actual image in photobucket, copy the URL, paste it into your post, then add the HTML codes [!img] pasted URL [/img]" (without the exclamation point, needed only for you to see the code) to each side of the pasted URL. So you get....
Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
Sent from my mind....using Tap-a-Thought. (tm)
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gonebad395
Ironworker!
- Joined
- May 19, 2015
- Messages
- 3,218
If you are excepting new knives from makers with rust on them you don't have a standard. How on earth can you find that ok? That's like saying I'm ok with rust spots on my new car I don't want to be picky. Are you ok with a little mold on your families food? I mean you don't want to start any waves and be called picky. Just suck it up kids we don't want to rattle any cages by objecting to what's clearly WRONG!
Cute.......
I'm just going to leave this here.....
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1034108-DOuble-Cut-blades-more-prone-to-rust
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/974027-Satin-vs-Double-Cut
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/964488-Question-about-Busse-blade-finishes
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/908147-Protecting-Double-cut-blades-from-rust
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/772832-Finishes-and-rust-prevention
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/565758-Rust
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ble-Cut-Or-Crinkle-Finish-for-rust-prevention
If you are too lazy to read the links, and I mean read the whole thread (where Hog after Hog) say, and I quote....
"DoubleCut finish is the only INFI finish I've had to develop surface rust also."
I've owned coated, stripped, sanded, ghetto satin, factory satin, and held and used many many more.
I've used the originals (first run mean street, badger attack, steel heart) In A2. Coated and stripped.
I've held hundreds of Busse. I don't own a lot. I'm down to three. I've owned as many as 17 models.
Double Cut is more prone to rust. Much more prone. I don't need to "do more research" The links are threads going back a decade where Hogs who own hundreds and more models all say the same thing. Hogs I know and trust.
But, more importantly, I've also seen thread, after thread, after thread with photographic evidence (also posted by hogs). Nearly all the threads I linked are from long before your time.
Double Cut is a course media blast followed by a fine media blast which peens the surface. It creates a nice even finish. At the microscopic level, it is full of holes and divots (which is what gives it the mat finish). It is a great user finish, but also gives places for moisture to hide and start tiny rust spots.
Your two have not show rust? Bully for you.
I refrained from posting the many links to other forums as well, with the same "myth". (Links omitted so I don't break any cross linking rules).
I have to chuckle when some one tells me to read, and do research when my kid still sporting baby teeth has shoes that have been arround longer.
The closer to a mirror polish, on any metal, will be less prone to rust than a rougher, blasted surface. Because science.........
INFI is a very rust resistant steel. But Double Cut is more prone to rust spots than polished. None of my satin or even stripped ghetto finishes have ever rusted, including when I swim or boat or raft with them for days. Even pool chlorine. I've had one spot of rust, righr on the lasered logo on a satin BAD after two wet, sweaty days swimming and canoeing without taking it off, or drying it off. That spot of rust wiped off with my thumb, and did not affect the satin.
I've seen my share of rust pics. Including double cut and especially comp finish. But people have complained about even satin finish in high salt/humidity environments.I find INFI to be more rust resistant than many of my dedicated actual stainless knives.
Don't take my word for it. Go ask an old Hog.
Or, shoot, phone Jerry (the Janitor) at Busse headquarters.
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gonebad395
Ironworker!
- Joined
- May 19, 2015
- Messages
- 3,218
So due to this repeated problem are you giving a ok to the seller for not disclosing ? And I'm just asking not being a dick just want to know if due to a makers name we should except inferior finishes or products
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Exactly. So, what, Bigfattyt? (Oh, yeah, somebody said . . . xyz) Argue the specifics of oxidation vis-a-vis a specific finish all you want. What in God's green/brown/tan/orange/red/et al earth does have to do with this particular feedback regarding this particular transaction and this particular seller's failure to accurately describe the blade in question when advertising it for sale on BF? There's more appropriate sub-forums for that.
The question may be more complicated than that. The rust spots on the double cut, and tube very well could have come during transit.
Look at my earlier post. The proper way to handle a situation like this is to offer to make it right.
I was simply adding to the knowledge base about this particular finish. It is more prone to rust spots. The seller should not consider the sale finished until the op indicated satisfaction.
However, the OP may not be aware that the "mythical" rust may have appeared in transit.
Regardless of the non-existant "mythical" nature of rust on this this particular finish, on this particular proprietary steel, from this specific manufacturer (double cut INFI from Busse).
I could ship you a knife, with a clean, rust free finish. If I touch it with my finger prints, and ship it, it could appear with rusty prints all over it, especially if I did not package it with oil, or protectant.
Another member told me that this particular finish being prone to rust was a myth. Yet, we have an OP here, withe this finish showing rust.
The OP got a knife wirh rust spots, Blood spots on the handle?
The knife may have shipped without rust, but with a bit of blood from a cut while packaging. This may have caused the rust spots as well as the stain on the micarta.
Where, in my post...any of them on this thread, did I give the seller a pass? I must have missed typing that? Or, could it be that I did not?
What I did do, is share another personal experience with a seller, where I was ticked with what I received, and his immediate offer to make amends, whether that entailed refund, or some other solution made me satisfied enough to not request refund, or a discount, or lead to any negative feedback. I think the seller has done damage to bis reputation by his lack of response, then eventually a less than cordial response.
I simply offered more information about this particular finish, on this particular steel......which, may actually explain how the seller may have handled a knife that did not have any rust. Put it into a box, and shipped it. Where it developed rust.
It may have had the spots before shipping. I dont know.
The OP was not happy, and let us know. The seller did not appear to offer a refund, or partial refund, or to ship it back to the wonderful company that made it, and offers a forever warranty.
Did I offend? Words I did not utter caused you distress?
Another member told me I did not know what I was talking about, and that I needed to research this particular steel, wirh this double cut finish, because it is only a myth that it can rust. I posted links going back nearly 10 years where owners agree it is more prone to rust. In fact, here, we have the OP who bought a lovely double cut finish Son Of Badger. It has rust...... but, according to some one else.........it could not possibly be rust?
Not sure how that conversation turned into a belief that I, some how, give my seal of approval to any one's behavior?
Maybe I forgot writing it?
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gonebad395
Ironworker!
- Joined
- May 19, 2015
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First off I was just asking no reason to to get snide. If people who purchase these knives find their finish that allows rust due to just touching before transport awesome. But no matter what excuses or explanations you can give it seems it wasn't ok with the buyer. Again I'm not being mean trying to hold a conversation.
It is actually a great knife, with a great finish in a great steel. I've seen examples used and safe Queens that don't seem to have developed any rust.
There is a long, technical reason I could give for this, but it's way past my bed time, and phone typing is slow.
Again, I excused no one's behavior. I recognized it was not ok with the buyer. The seller has done his feed back a dis-service.
Again, words, and meaning attributed to me, when I did not express them.
To address the question of how or when the rust may have occurred...I have serious doubts that the rust on the infi developed during transit. Possible, yes. But extremely unlikely. The rust on the tube (which I doubt is infi) most certainly did not develop in transit. It left pitting when removed, so I think the knife was likely exposed to some solvent or cleaner and no oil replaced other than from handling. Possibly that particular spot came from some exposure to something acidic. Who knows. The scales are darker and feel less 'dry' than the other SoB Proto I own (and bought used), and while there are obviously color variations in black Micarta, they seems to be darkened from handling.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2013
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- 6,784
Pics working now, the amount of rust "when received" on the tube is laughable, it's nothing, a little flake, the spot on handle, again can barely see it, way everybody is making a stink about it thought it would be the size of a lake, will admit the spotting on top of spine would bug me a bit but not to which I felt entitled to a refund. But people feel entitled to absolute perfection these days and very anal about there blades which I can understand if just plan on reselling or are collector, I'm not a collector, never will he, all my knives will get used and be blemished. Is it new/unused?, technically I think yes, is it blemished a bit, I suppose so and should have been disclosed if was there before being shipped, if I was Mark would just refund and sell on ebay, I wouldn't doubt somebody will take it without hassle, seriously some of you guys act like zakjak should be thrown on a pike and have his first born sacrificed, when in reality all he did IS POSSIBLY not disclose a little rust/spotting. I do believe it could have happened in transit, who knows, Hoka could have done that himself in his time owning it, nobody will ever really know besides him and Mark.
Thats a rare knife, one many would consider lucky to own, I have had uncoated LE sr101 (and yes know sob is infi, but it will stain) blades develop spotting during shipping when receiving internationally, could the seller have neglected just to tell me they were there, ya, but unless the knife is unusable or severely stained/rusted/banged up I'm not gonna complain. Cause I'm not overly anal and picky that's gonna put somebody out of money over little things unless think they have done something really wrong, like not receiving an item due to extremely poor packaging, broken blade, unusable knife, ectecetecet.
Think people should stop pointing fingers, including me,
cause if you continue to buy or sell on bf(forums)with new people(and I mean that as people you haven't done business with before) you will end up here in gbu eventually trying to defend yourself whether your in the right or wrong against people that will NEVER ACTUALLY KNOW ALL THE FACTS. But think they do. People use the word community around here alot, but sure doesnt take much for everybody to turn on each other at the drop of a hat. I'm sure zakjak has more deals here than FB even shows, all 100%, there's a reason for that, that's all I'm saying. Sure will make things right one way or other, I know if I wasn't the cause of that little bit spotting/rust, I wouldn't want to pay for it either.
But who knows.
Thats a rare knife, one many would consider lucky to own, I have had uncoated LE sr101 (and yes know sob is infi, but it will stain) blades develop spotting during shipping when receiving internationally, could the seller have neglected just to tell me they were there, ya, but unless the knife is unusable or severely stained/rusted/banged up I'm not gonna complain. Cause I'm not overly anal and picky that's gonna put somebody out of money over little things unless think they have done something really wrong, like not receiving an item due to extremely poor packaging, broken blade, unusable knife, ectecetecet.
Think people should stop pointing fingers, including me,
cause if you continue to buy or sell on bf(forums)with new people(and I mean that as people you haven't done business with before) you will end up here in gbu eventually trying to defend yourself whether your in the right or wrong against people that will NEVER ACTUALLY KNOW ALL THE FACTS. But think they do. People use the word community around here alot, but sure doesnt take much for everybody to turn on each other at the drop of a hat. I'm sure zakjak has more deals here than FB even shows, all 100%, there's a reason for that, that's all I'm saying. Sure will make things right one way or other, I know if I wasn't the cause of that little bit spotting/rust, I wouldn't want to pay for it either. But who knows.
Peter Hartwig
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2008
- Messages
- 5,666
If he had sold to someone that was going to make it a user it would not be a big deal -maybe a slight price adjustment for undisclosed defects, maybe they would let it go. However the buyer was buying as a collectable. The defects weren't disclosed and it was implied that it was a pristine piece -never carried or used. Those flaws ruin it for the collector(unless that is the best they can find). Buyer didn't get what he expected to get. Since there were undisclosed flaws he was within his rights to complain. If the seller had then just taken it back, refunded his money, he would have been out the cost of re-shipping . He could just have listed it again here with the flaws and move on looking like a great seller(no negative feedback or GB&U). However he chose the suck eggs approach and that is what has hurt him. With time more negatives were discovered and he looked even worse. They would never have been noticed if he just took care of this quickly. Everyone is a good seller when all goes well.Pics working now, the amount of rust "when received" on the tube is laughable, it's nothing, a little flake, the spot on handle, again can barely see it, way everybody is making a stink about it thought it would be the size of a lake, will admit the spotting on top of spine would bug me a bit but not to which I felt entitled to a refund. But people feel entitled to absolute perfection these days and very anal about there blades which I can understand if just plan on reselling or are collector, I'm not a collector, never will he, all my knives will get used and be blemished. Is it new/unused?, technically I think yes, is it blemished a bit, I suppose so and should have been disclosed if was there before being shipped, if I was Mark would just refund and sell on ebay, I wouldn't doubt somebody will take it without hassle, seriously some of you guys act like zakjak should be thrown on a pike and have his first born sacrificed, when in reality all he did IS POSSIBLY not disclose a little rust/spotting. I do believe it could have happened in transit, who knows, Hoka could have done that himself in his time owning it, nobody will ever really know besides him and Mark.
Thats a rare knife, one many would consider lucky to own, I have had uncoated LE sr101 (and yes know sob is infi, but it will stain) blades develop spotting during shipping when receiving internationally, could the seller have neglected just to tell me they were there, ya, but unless the knife is unusable or severely stained/rusted/banged up I'm not gonna complain. Cause I'm not overly anal and picky that's gonna put somebody out of money over little things unless think they have done something really wrong, like not receiving an item due to extremely poor packaging, broken blade, unusable knife, ectecetecet.
Think people should stop pointing fingers, including me,
But who knows.
Collectors are picky, but that doesn't make them wrong to expect what is listed.
I am not a collector, and let more go
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Transit time was 2-3 days and he was contacted with photos within minutes of my receiving it. Steel does not pit in 2-3 days unless exposed to something corrosive, which certainly did not happen in transit. A little rust on a knife wouldn't bother me either if disclosed as such if purchased as a user. As I already have a user SoB Proto which was purchased as such (and is incidentally rust free) I was looking to own a fresh example which I would keep for my son when he's of age for such a knife. It was my mistake not to notice the spot on the scale. If he had pointed out that it was there in the picture and when the point was raised, and it was the only issue, I wouldn't have made a stink of it. I probably wouldn't have even asked for a refund. Had a refund been offered in that scenario, that gesture would have been enough to secure him a positive feedback from me. Yes, it's a very small spot. But for me the matter has little to the size or amount of defect present, but attitude by the seller and his total disinterest in correcting his mistake, (if it was indeed a mistake in the first place).
Folks, I'm afraid I won't be able to follow this thread very closely for the next 10 days or so. I'm traveling for work this afternoon and will have very limited time to devote further attention to this for the time being. Zakjak did email me and request I call him this afternoon. I've requested he email me his thoughts to keep a clear record, but I'll be on a flight at the time he said he was available, so if he does email I won't get it until late tonight. He mentioned that personal matters have been occupying a good bit of his time and acknowledged that he should have been in contact earlier. I don't think that there's much to be said to justify all of his actions, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would like to straighten things out and I give him credit for making an effort. I'll keep you posted.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 13,335
Think people should stop pointing fingers, including me,
But who knows.
How someone handles the negative instances says a whole lot more than the positive ones.
In these situations, all that we, the peanut gallery, have to go on is what is said by the parties in question and the evidence they present. The buyer presented his case with the issues on the knife he received. The seller repeated what he listed in the ad, pointed towards his high feedback score, and hardly even acknowledged the issues at hand. After the pictures of what the knife looked like when the buyer received it the seller did not respond. The only response of his since page one was for the buyer to call him to work it out, which was after both left negative feedback.
Take from this situation what you will.
TommyGun56
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2014
- Messages
- 7,219
I do not need to ask anybody, have used it extensively for years-No Rusting-I would suggest you Use it and not read about it-Cheers!!
Pics working now, the amount of rust "when received" on the tube is laughable, it's nothing, a little flake, the spot on handle, again can barely see it, way everybody is making a stink about it thought it would be the size of a lake, will admit the spotting on top of spine would bug me a bit but not to which I felt entitled to a refund. But people feel entitled to absolute perfection these days and very anal about there blades which I can understand if just plan on reselling or are collector, I'm not a collector, never will he, all my knives will get used and be blemished. Is it new/unused?, technically I think yes, is it blemished a bit, I suppose so and should have been disclosed if was there before being shipped, if I was Mark would just refund and sell on ebay, I wouldn't doubt somebody will take it without hassle, seriously some of you guys act like zakjak should be thrown on a pike and have his first born sacrificed, when in reality all he did IS POSSIBLY not disclose a little rust/spotting. I do believe it could have happened in transit, who knows, Hoka could have done that himself in his time owning it, nobody will ever really know besides him and Mark.
Thats a rare knife, one many would consider lucky to own, I have had uncoated LE sr101 (and yes know sob is infi, but it will stain) blades develop spotting during shipping when receiving internationally, could the seller have neglected just to tell me they were there, ya, but unless the knife is unusable or severely stained/rusted/banged up I'm not gonna complain. Cause I'm not overly anal and picky that's gonna put somebody out of money over little things unless think they have done something really wrong, like not receiving an item due to extremely poor packaging, broken blade, unusable knife, ectecetecet.
Think people should stop pointing fingers, including me,
But who knows.
Amen Brother....