cckw doesn't stand behind his words

[pwet]

short version first.

I paid 288 dollars shipped/insured for a S90V para2 i never received.

this was in februry. after 94 mails exchanged, more than 6 month avoiding the situation and a mod involved, he finally told me that despite i asked for insurance (even if i should NOT care, he owes me my knife or my money back anyway .... i paid for it http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/744662-***-Mailing-Security) the parcel actually wasn't insured and i'll no get money. he even told me he didn't feel guilty about that ...

stay away.

i'll repost the long version below for clarification. thanks for your attention.

best, Louis.

 

[pwet]

i'll try to make this short, even if the story isn't. i'll just quote the more significant dates and answer i got from him ...

i bought cckw a spyderco S90V sprint run para2. before we agreed on a deal i asked him if the priority shipping he quote me included insurance. he answered that yes, there was a 100usd insurance included in the price and we agreed. he received my payment on 01/11

i got a tracking number 10 days and 13 mails after he received my paiment, girlfriend problem, weather problem, i quote "US holiday for Martin Luther King", a picture of the flat rate box and invoice to show me he's not forgotten me .... whatever, no problem.

i first asked him to contact his post office early feb...

lots of mails no infos, i asked for insurance on 03/16 ... looooootttsss of mails saying that no we shouldn't file an insurance claim because he's got lots of experience selling knives and stuff and the package will arrive, if we file a claim they'll seize the knife etc etc. repeated that i wanted insurance several times ....


04/24 after four unanswered mail and 15days i take this problem to ESAV's attention. the gentleman's reaction is

"Since you involved a moderator all future communication with have to go through him. please do not contact me directly from this point on."

04/28 after ESAV's intervention

"The moderator seems satisfied that there is no dishonesty in place and I don't think cares to be involved any further. I'm working out of town until Friday night. If I don't have payment on the insurance yet I will send you the insured amount. I see no reason why they would deny it. that would put this to rest, and clearly I was the one stalling on giving up on it, so will wrap it up that way.

Curtis"

next significant update on 06/13 after a lot of "i had no time", they don't answer my call, a picture of his iphone .... and 12 mails exchange in a very cordial tone and me asking if i may ask of esav's help again he finaly answers that in fact the parcel actualy isn't insured.

then i remind him that i asked for insurance before accepting to pay and he told me that the parcel will be insured, he then told me that he would pay upfront waiting for usps to pay him then he did nothing ....

here is his last answer 07/13, since then no more answer to my mails ...

"Not knowing the screwy rules of the postal system I don't feel so guilty about, even the people who work there do not know a lot of the odd ones. However, I have been thinking that I sold you the knife for more then I paid, and refunding the profit amount has been on my mind.

I want to try one more time to call Atlanta though."

refunding the profit amount is obviously not in his mind anymore and that's a good thing because i'm not asking for charity, i ask what i paid for and he failed to deliver, i mean the insurance not the knife.

at this point 94 mails and 7 months later he just told me that i'll see no money, he doesn't answer to mails anymore ... i've been more than patient with him even when i knew he was just trying to avoid the situation ...

i'd like first to get opinions from forum members, second help people stay away from him. for me it'll teach me not trying to be nice anymore and avoid paypal fees to a seller ... if i had not paid through the personal tab i could simply have asked a refund through paypal ... never again. my opinion of internet sales is pretty much summed here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/744662-***-Mailing-Security obviously he doesnt feel the same.

thanks everyone for your input. sorry this is a very long post but the situation is pretty epic ... now seeing his reaction i even wonder if he didn't mislabeled the parcel on purpose or something, it's probably silly but still ...

i can forward the whole mail conversation to anyone who is interrested.

 

[Bryan J]

You stated that you had the tracking number. What did the tracking information say about the progress of the package? Did it leave the United States?

 

[pwet]

no mention of that.

and i called the custom office in paris orly, it's the place where every single package that enters the french territory with a number on it is scanned. they never scanned this one. i usually have a french tracking number for priority (stupid i admit, USPS express mail is delivered by a private company that charges a lot of extra fees but it can be tracked with the US number) i just have to call with my US number and they'll give me the french number to have a complete tracking via the french post. here when i done they had no trace of the parcel that's what alerted me at first.

 

[neuron]

Just to answer Bryan J's question, if it's a Priority Mail Intl. Small Flat Rate Box (or Flat Rate Envelope), it doesn't actually include tracking or even have the option of adding it. (This is in contrast to the domestic use of the Small Flat Rate Box, which of course does include tracking.) You'll get a customs barcode number, but no tracking number: if you try to enter the barcode number on USPS tracking, all it'll tell you is that the shipping info was received on (date X). Additionally, because the package doesn't have the option of tracking/delivery confirmation, USPS doesn't offer insurance on it.

Also, adding my two cents on the situation, I think the OP is owed a refund for the full amount he paid for the knife, given that he specifically asked for insurance to cover the possibility of a lost/stolen package or whatever happened in this case. Whether or not the seller feels bad about not knowing the relevant postal rules is beside the point: once the money was exchanged, it became the seller's job to get the item to the buyer, or to make the buyer whole again if for some reason the item didn't reach him. His failure to buy the insurance that the buyer specifically asked for is the seller's problem -- since that leaves him having to cover any loss out of pocket -- not the buyer's.

 

[pwet]

thanks neuron, that's my impression too.

i really doubt i'll get anything as living at a fair distance from him, in a different country i doubt i have any mean to make pressure on him. i was pretty much going to drop it until he told me this.

"However, I have been thinking that I sold you the knife for more then I paid, and refunding the profit amount has been on my mind"

this realy realy upset me big time, just to remind me that not only i've got no knife, but he made a profit (wich otherwise is completely fine), and he offers me his charity ...

this is why i went to vent here. and warn other people.

and this makes me glad i don't much insults in english as i would probably got warned by a mod

 

[Bryan J]

Just to answer Bryan J's question, if it's a Priority Mail Intl. Small Flat Rate Box (or Flat Rate Envelope), it doesn't actually include tracking or even have the option of adding it. (This is in contrast to the domestic use of the Small Flat Rate Box, which of course does include tracking.) You'll get a customs barcode number, but no tracking number: if you try to enter the barcode number on USPS tracking, all it'll tell you is that the shipping info was received on (date X). Additionally, because the package doesn't have the option of tracking/delivery confirmation, USPS doesn't offer insurance on it.

Also, adding my two cents on the situation, I think the OP is owed a refund for the full amount he paid for the knife, given that he specifically asked for insurance to cover the possibility of a lost/stolen package or whatever happened in this case. Whether or not the seller feels bad about not knowing the relevant postal rules is beside the point: once the money was exchanged, it became the seller's job to get the item to the buyer, or to make the buyer whole again if for some reason the item didn't reach him. His failure to buy the insurance that the buyer specifically asked for is the seller's problem -- since that leaves him having to cover any loss out of pocket -- not the buyer's.

Ok, this explains alot. Perhaps the seller was ignorant of USPS policy and, upon learning the facts (no tracking/insurance), decided to ship with them anyway figuring he'd place all the risk onto the buyer. After all, it costs far less to ship internationally through USPS than through UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. This is, of course, completely self-centered and an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller if true.

The moral to this case is that if you're buying internationally, insist on a carrier who offers genuine tracking/insurance.

i got a tracking number 10 days and 13 mails after he received my paiment, girlfriend problem, weather problem, i quote "US holiday for Martin Luther King", a picture of the flat rate box and invoice to show me he's not forgotten me .... whatever, no problem.

I can tell you from experience: when the person you're dealing with starts making excuses like this it's a sure sign that you are in trouble.

 

[neuron]

Ok, this explains alot. Perhaps the seller was ignorant of USPS policy and, upon learning the facts (no tracking/insurance), decided to ship with them anyway figuring he'd place all the risk onto the buyer. After all, it costs far less to ship internationally through USPS than through UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. This is, of course, completely self-centered and an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller if true.

The moral to this case is that if you're buying internationally, insist on a carrier who offers genuine tracking/insurance.

Just to clarify on that last point, USPS does offer genuine tracking and insurance on all Priority Mail Intl. services except the Small Flat Rate Box and Flat Rate Envelope: weight-based Priority Mail Intl., Medium Flat Rate Box, etc. USPS Express Mail Intl., including the Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope, comes with tracking and an automatic $100 of insurance as well. For something as small/light as a Spyderco folder, it would have cost the seller around $20 to send it via weight-based Priority Mail or $29 to send it via Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope.

Regardless of whether he did it out of ignorance of the relevant postal rules/services or simply out of a desire to save a few bucks, I agree that it was an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller.

 

[neuron]

Ok, this explains alot. Perhaps the seller was ignorant of USPS policy and, upon learning the facts (no tracking/insurance), decided to ship with them anyway figuring he'd place all the risk onto the buyer. After all, it costs far less to ship internationally through USPS than through UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc. This is, of course, completely self-centered and an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller if true.

The moral to this case is that if you're buying internationally, insist on a carrier who offers genuine tracking/insurance.

Just to clarify on that last point, USPS does offer genuine tracking and insurance on all Priority Mail Intl. services except the Small Flat Rate Box and Flat Rate Envelope: weight-based Priority Mail Intl., Medium Flat Rate Box, etc. Additionally, USPS Express Mail Intl., including the Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope, comes with tracking and an automatic $100 of insurance as well. For something as small/light as a Spyderco folder, it would have cost the seller around $20 to send it via weight-based Priority Mail or $29 to send it via Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope.

Regardless of whether he did it out of ignorance of the relevant postal rules/services or simply out of a desire to save a few bucks, I agree that it was an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller.

 

[Bryan J]

Just to clarify on that last point, USPS does offer genuine tracking and insurance on all Priority Mail Intl. services except the Small Flat Rate Box and Flat Rate Envelope: weight-based Priority Mail Intl., Medium Flat Rate Box, etc. Additionally, USPS Express Mail Intl., including the Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope, comes with tracking and an automatic $100 of insurance as well. For something as small/light as a Spyderco folder, it would have cost the seller around $20 to send it via weight-based Priority Mail or $29 to send it via Express Mail Intl. Flat Rate Envelope.

Regardless of whether he did it out of ignorance of the relevant postal rules/services or simply out of a desire to save a few bucks, I agree that it was an abrogation of his responsibility as a seller.

Thanks for the clarification.

I really hate shipping internationally for a variety of reasons and can empathize with the position that the shipper is not responsible for USPS losing the package in transit. However, in this case the buyer specifically requested insurance on the knife. The failure to purchase the insurance is the key here. Based on the info so far, the seller owes the buyer a full refund in my opinion.

Please alert the seller about this thread, as he should be entitled to present his side of the story before his reputation is trashed.

 

[pwet]

i'd like to clarify a point as well. he let me the choice of shipping method, he did not try to save a few bucks on me as he proposed me the shipping service with a quote of the price before we made a deal. i accepted knowing that if he wasn't clean enough to assume what i think is his duty here (covering the price i paid if is not able to deliver it) i'd get at least 100 usd

the problem doesn't lie here. i'm pretty sure he believed that there was insurance. he started being wrong when he discovered that there wasn't and didn't put is money where his mouth was.

 

[jujigatame]

Believing is one thing, knowing is another. It was his job as the seller to know how it was going. If he knew it was not insured and sent it anyway while still having you under the belief you were paying for and getting insurance then he fouled up to an even larger degree.

I know you said you would no longer do Paypal gift/personal for things like this and that's good. To underscore the point for anyone else - if you would not be trusting enough to send someone cash in the mail to buy something from them then you should not send Paypal gift/personal.

 

[pwet]

sound advice, i should have seen it like that because that's basicaly what the personal tab is, sending cash to someone. you have no way to get it back. i thought about a chargeback as paypal uses my card not direct acount but for this i would get in trouble with paypal, not a good idea.

 

[ooitzoo]

This is the predominant reason that, when I trade/sell with an international counterparty, I ask that the other side take all delivery risk. I also allow them to pick the method of shipping (at their expense). I don't the laws and delivery standards in Europe or wherever and its best for both sides if the party that knows these rules to take responsibility.

All of that said, it looks like this is a pretty shit situation and cckw is now on my personal suspect list. Also, why not contact PP about this and get a refund?

 

[pwet]

please gentlemen what has it to do with international ?

i don't understand why the fundamentals of a good transaction should change when a good crosses a frontier. is there any good reason for that ? france is no third world, we have postal services, not the fastest in the world but as reliable as anywhere else. i've been buying knives for years, from japan, from USA, from europe, i've had very late delivery but beside this one only one loss, and the seller (US) ate the loss like it should be done, like i would do if i ever have a lost parcel coming from me.

any way, as much as i disagree with this method, if he had clearly stated that i had to assume all the risk i would probably have chosen a fully insured postage. and the situation would not be what it is .... but please ... is this the best path really ?

 

[richardallen]

Thanks for the clarification.

I really hate shipping internationally for a variety of reasons and can empathize with the position that the shipper is not responsible for USPS losing the package in transit. However, in this case the buyer specifically requested insurance on the knife. The failure to purchase the insurance is the key here. Based on the info so far, the seller owes the buyer a full refund in my opinion. [...]

^ Exactly.

International or not, if you use tracking and insurance at least you have a valid claim you send a package in the first place. There really is no valid reason not to buy insurance/tracking, especially when it was asked for. This isn't a problem related to international buyers, it's about dishonest sellers. He was asked for insurance and tracking and probably purposfully didn't deliver.

Honestly, it looks like a scam to me. I doubt he ever send you a package at all. Probably sold the knife to someone else, if at all.

Keeping you waiting is another clue as well -it's basically making sure that you can't use the Paypal refund.

 

[richardallen]

Surprise surprise, in February he sold another(?) S90V Paramilitary.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Benchmade-amp-Spyderso-Sprints-(S90v-amp-HXP)

No trades except WW-2 items
No lower offers unless buying multiple, then only a little off
postage and PP fees extra.

E_MAIL E-mail e-mail me to buy. First commitment to buy by email gets it. You can post in the thread if you want but direct communication with me is the best bet.

All are new in box, and boxes are nice. all blade are pretty well centered etc. Meercat has a thumb print in this photo that I have since wiped off

Sprint Manix2 with HXP steel -- $185.00
Para 2 carbon Fiber & S90V -- $275.00 spf to PAZach
Meercat (thumb print on blade) -- $75 SPF to samtheman773
Benchmade 913SBKD2 (assist, D2 steel) -- $95.00
14440 SB H&K Ally -- $25.00[...]

(Emphasis mine)

He also received positive feedback from that buyer, so I am assuming that guy got his knife. I wonder if he had two Paramilitary S90V (and if so, buying with intention to sell with profit makes him a dealer)...

 

[pwet]

he had 3, he told me.

but you're right i should have been more carefull regarding to him, 440 posts, 37 for sale threads with almost always a few knives per thread, all knives NIB, quite a lot of sprint runs and only 10 positive feedback.

the fact is that such a situation never occured to me so i've been pretty naive. now i'll check more carefully even if i have to let one nice sprint or custom go.

 

[richardallen]

he had 3, he told me. [...]

How convenient

It sounds kinda sketchy. He didn't advertise three, and it doesn't seem he got feedback for selling three. Also, when you label a knife *sold to xy*, you won't get people asking to buy it anymore. So, selling another one while labeling it in your for-sale thread *sold* seems unlikely. I doubt he had three in the first place.

Even if he did, that would make him a seller, so he is not following the rules for selling.

 

[cckw]

You did not ask for insurance you opted save on import tax. Invested a huge amount of time in trying to recover this package. At one point even sent you a photo of my phone showing more then an hour on hold and the number could be googled to confirm it was the postal claim where lost packages are sent. ESAV investigated and after viewing the string of e-mail and tracking info, said he had no problem with my part of this transaction. You have been stalking me ever since. I had to put your e-mail address on my spam list.