Cheaper knives are punching above thier weight?

[FortyTwoBlades]

With both Mora and Victorinox they also have a very high degree of standardized parts that are used/re-used on many different models. Really cuts down on tooling cost per unit.

 

[Monofletch]

How many 'expensive' knives are actually used on a daily basis? Not very many I bet.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

All I'm getting from any of this is I will really love 3V if I ever get around to using it lol. Thanks for the feed back. The only people I know who have it refuse to beat on it because they paid so much for it. Don't make sense to me but that's how they roll and they won't let me near it.

I just got back from a short hike out to our spot on the river out back and my son thoroughly tested his brand new SCHF36. I can honestly say I know now why it won people's choice award. Anyone who has a blade too nice to use and wants something to beat on relentlessly, get the SCHF36. I like it better than my Ontario Falcon, and I like that blade a lot! I'll put up some pics after I get them on my photo site.

Nifty. The point is that there are actual performabce benefits to be gained from different materials. 1095 is great if that's all you need, but 3V blows it quite thoroughly out of the water. But to start getting greater gains in performance than moving up a few notches in the steel department you have to start paying more for less. I can get twice the steel for double the price, b7t if I want grinds optimized for the steel type and tasks I'm performing I might have to tack on another $100. Squeeze in another $50 for more durable handle material. Jump to a custom maker and spend even more so I can get the heat treat matched to what I want to do with the knife. The end user still sees a benefit from each of these, but the benefit is smaller and smaller and costs more and more. Law of diminishing returns.

 

[22-rimfire]

The only inexpensive fixed blade knife that I actually use is the Kabar Becker BK-15 these days. Love this knife. I think it would be fantastic in 3V and loose the paint. Most of my fixed blades that I use run $150+ and more often $200+.

 

[craytab]

All I'm getting from any of this is I will really love 3V if I ever get around to using it lol. Thanks for the feed back. The only people I know who have it refuse to beat on it because they paid so much for it. Don't make sense to me but that's how they roll and they won't let me near it.

Great. So you know some guys afraid to use their 3v. I assume this is in real life....because.....there are plenty of folks in this community who use the hell out of 3v. Just take a look around the forum.

Depends on what returns you are looking for.

Okay, that would completely negate any discussion you might offer to the concept of diminishing returns.

Nifty. The point is that there are actual performance benefits to be gained from different materials. 1095 is great if that's all you need, but 3V blows it quite thoroughly out of the water. But to start getting greater gains in performance than moving up a few notches in the steel department you have to start paying more for less. I can get twice the steel for double the price, b7t if I want grinds optimized for the steel type and tasks I'm performing I might have to tack on another $100. Squeeze in another $50 for more durable handle material. Jump to a custom maker and spend even more so I can get the heat treat matched to what I want to do with the knife. The end user still sees a benefit from each of these, but the benefit is smaller and smaller and costs more and more. Law of diminishing returns.

Logic, reason, relevant to the discussion. Well put Sir!

 

[bld522]

In all of these discussions, there's also the notion of opportunity cost to take into consideration. A fortunate few may be able to buy knives at any cost with impunity. I, however, am not among them. If I buy a knife, I forfeit the money I might have used to buy another knife. So before I make a purchase, I have to decide whether what I'm purchasing is worth what I'm giving up to purchase it.

There's only one way to apply the opportunity cost principle properly, and that's to do my homework in advance. if I don't know what's out there, I won't know what I'm giving up when I buy something with my limited resources. YMMV.

 

[Boris74]

Great. So you know some guys afraid to use their 3v. I assume this is in real life....because.....there are plenty of folks in this community who use the hell out of 3v. Just take a look around the forum.



Okay, that would completely negate any discussion you might offer to the concept of diminishing returns.



Logic, reason, relevant to the discussion. Well put Sir!

I use the hell out of my SK5, 1095 and 5160 blades, so what's your point?

If more expensive scales will always give you a return in durability then you need to put some more expensive ones on your Busse and go beat the hell out of the knife for a year. Let us know how they work out.

My point to the gentleman who was actually having a discussion with me is sometimes you can get more returns by paying less. It depends on what returns you are looking for. Better fit, exotic expensive scales on my user would give me no returns in durability and would diminish the actual usability of it. If you don't understand that then cool by me. I'm pretty sure the civil discussion we are having, that he understands it too.

 

[bld522]

Generally speaking, I find you get what you pay for. Although the law of diminishing returns applies, you normally get a better made, better built knife if you spend more. But that isn't always the case. And there are certainly bargains to be had if you do your homework and you know what to look for.

 

[craytab]

How many 'expensive' knives are actually used on a daily basis? Not very many I bet.

What exactly is expensive

I use the hell out of my SK5, 1095 and 5160 blades, so what's your point?

I said my point. Sorry you missed it. My point had nothing to do with what you use. It was more akin to observing the fact that you have friends with 3v that are scared to use it and also pointing out there are tons of folks in this community who do use their 3v. Me included if you can believe it!

If more expensive scales will always give you a return in durability then you need to put some more expensive ones on your Busse and go beat the hell out of the knife for a year. Let us know how they work out.

My Busse is just fine the way it is thank you! Where did anyone say "more expensive scales will always give you a return in durability"? No one did Boris. This is something you made up for your own internal discussion.

My point to the gentleman who was actually having a discussion with me is sometimes you can get more returns by paying less. It depends on what returns you are looking for. Better fit, exotic expensive scales on my user would give me no returns in durability and would diminish the actual usability of it. If you don't understand that then cool by me. I'm pretty sure the civil discussion we are having, that he understands it too.

And my point is that you are having a different discussion. The "law of diminishing returns"? Heck with that, I don't need no returns. Changing the goal post doesn't equate a discussion.

 

[bld522]

What exactly is expensive

To quote Paul Simon, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. And I agree with Boris's statement that it's possible to increase value by paying less. Lord knows there are plenty of high-value, low-cost options available from manufacturers with well-established reputations. But once again, you've got to do your homework and know what you're looking for.

 

[22-rimfire]

That be true. One person doesn't blink an eye at a $300-$400 knife and another is choking at $75. Yep. Like everything else, depends on your income and experience not to mention preferences.

 

[craytab]

To quote Paul Simon, one man's ceiling is another man's floor. And I agree with Boris's statement that it's possible to increase value by paying less. Lord knows there are plenty of low-cost options available from manufacturers with well-established reputations. But once again, you've got to do your homework and know what you're looking for.

Right, value, just like attractive trinkets on a knife are completely subjective subjects. And in a certain sense, so is saying 1095 is more preferred than 3v by an individual. The problem arises when arguments based on "supposed" facts are used to qualify the superiority of 1095 over 3v. Like "I got buddies that don't use their 3v" or that 3v is harder to sharpen when I do my bad arse deer hunt camp work. Sorry, you need friends that don't mind using 3v and you might need a better sharpening strategy. Not really relevant to diminishing returns or why some cheap knives are high value.

And facts are facts. 3v is better than 1095. Most of the hard use fixed blades I own are 1095. I would have gladly paid more for them had they been 3v. It is that much better when we are not talking subjectively.

 

[bld522]

Or objectively, for that matter. How many people really NEED 3V knives? Come on now, tell the truth.

 

[craytab]

Or objectively, for that matter. How many people really NEED 3V knives? Come on now, tell the truth.

How many people need an edc knife at all? What is expensive? What is the meaning of life?

I mean, it is funny watching folks tear at packages with their teeth or keys but it works I guess.

I myself took the Tuff on vacation to the cape for a week. Turns out 3v works just fine.

 

[jaypowell0185]

My $25 rat2 cuts just as good as my $350 sebenza but I don't get the same feeling when using it.

 

[Tachead01]

Or objectively, for that matter. How many people really NEED 3V knives? Come on now, tell the truth.

I have to agree with this. Very few people need the added benefits of 3V over good heat treated 1095. VERY VERY FEW.

There are videos of Esee's bent with power bars to 45 degree angles, batoned with heavy metal hammers through hardwood full of knots, hammered into telephone poles and then stood on, exc. They all survived and kept on cutting. Who really needs more toughness then that? Near nobody imo. As for edge holding, a 30 second strop brings 1095 back to hair popping most of the time so, the added edge holding of 3V is of little added value either imo. Most people don't even do enough things in a day that will dull 1095 to need more then a quick strop if even that. Hell, it seems like the vast majority of people on forums like BF are city folk who's knife edge never sees more then packing tape or cardboard in its service life, maybe the odd camping trip where it is worn on a belt most of the day and not used. Or maybe some backyard batoning for a YouTube video lol. It is pretty funny actually. Some of you knife nuts(I am one too&#9786 need to give your head a shake I think.

Probably only 5% of people actually need the benefits of 3V over 1095. Let's not fool ourselves here guys. It's OK to want it but, very few actually Need it.

 

[craytab]

I have to agree with this. Very few people need the added benefits of 3V over good heat treated 1095. VERY VERY FEW.

There are videos of Esee's bent with power bars to 45 degree angles, batoned with heavy metal hammers through hardwood full of knots, hammered into telephone poles and then stood on, exc. They all survived and kept on cutting. Who really needs more toughness then that? Near nobody imo. As for edge holding, a 30 second strop brings 1095 back to hair popping most of the time so, the added edge holding of 3V is of little added value either imo. Most people don't even do enough things in a day that will dull 1095 to need more then a quick strop if even that. Hell, it seems like the vast majority of people on forums like BF are city folk who's knife edge never sees more then packing tape or cardboard in its service life, maybe the odd camping trip where it is worn on a belt most of the day and not used. Or maybe some backyard batoning for a YouTube video lol. It is pretty funny actually. Some of you knife nuts(I am one too&#9786 need to give your head a shake I think.

Probably only 5% of people actually need the benefits of 3V over 1095. Let's not fool ourselves here guys. It's OK to want it but, very few actually Need it.

So what other things in daily life do you need vs want? Is it just 3v vs 1095?

 

[davek14]

So what other things in daily life do you need vs want? Is it just 3v vs 1095?

Sisyphus

 

[katanas]

Three cheers for Maslow :thumbup:! By the way, is craytab Kardas brother? Just wondering .

 

[bld522]

Oh come on. That's not necessary. And Tachhead01 nailed it. Few if any of us will ever need more than properly heat-treated 1095 is capable of delivering. But that's not really why we're here, now is it?