Cheaper knives are punching above thier weight?

[Tachead01]

So what other things in daily life do you need vs want? Is it just 3v vs 1095?

I am not sure what you are getting at here man? Could you further explain please.

I am just agreeing with posters, from a rational stand point, who said that most of us don't need 3V over 1095. I am an avid outdoorsman and tradesman(I need, not want, knives daily) who lives in a small town and spends as much time out of it as possible hunting, fishing, backcountry camping, hiking, rock climbing, exc. and I still feel that I don't need 3V. That will not however stop me from buying a knife in it if I like it. I just feel it is a perfect example of the law we talk about in this thread.

 

[ocnLogan]

I have to agree with this. Very few people need the added benefits of 3V over good heat treated 1095. VERY VERY FEW.

There are videos of Esee's bent with power bars to 45 degree angles, batoned with heavy metal hammers through hardwood full of knots, hammered into telephone poles and then stood on, exc. They all survived and kept on cutting. Who really needs more toughness then that? Near nobody imo. As for edge holding, a 30 second strop brings 1095 back to hair popping most of the time so, the added edge holding of 3V is of little added value either imo. Most people don't even do enough things in a day that will dull 1095 to need more then a quick strop if even that. Hell, it seems like the vast majority of people on forums like BF are city folk who's knife edge never sees more then packing tape or cardboard in its service life, maybe the odd camping trip where it is worn on a belt most of the day and not used. Or maybe some backyard batoning for a YouTube video lol. It is pretty funny actually. Some of you knife nuts(I am one too&#9786 need to give your head a shake I think.

Probably only 5% of people actually need the benefits of 3V over 1095. Let's not fool ourselves here guys. It's OK to want it but, very few actually Need it.

I think you're right, in the sense that 1095 (and many other steels) will hold an edge well enough to cut most anything that would need cutting. The difference is that you could make something out of 3v/a2, etc that has the same exact toughness and edge holding as one of those ESEE blades, but make it lighter (thinner stock), with better cutting performance (thinner behind the edge). Those are things that I think people can appreciate. Whether or not this is worth it to people, is something else entirely.

That said, when I see 3v blades with the same geometry as 1095 blades I get a little sad inside, as they're clearly not taking advantage of the better properties of 3v in the design. If a 5/32in thick 1095 blade is more than thick enough to survive the abuse I give it, then I'd like to see the 3v version in 1/8 or 3/32in blade stock.

And while I bet a good number of people around here are city folk (myself included), I think there may be more here that use their blades heavily than you think.

 

[Tachead01]

I think you're right, in the sense that 1095 (and many other steels) will hold an edge well enough to cut most anything that would need cutting. The difference is that you could make something out of 3v/a2, etc that has the same exact toughness and edge holding as one of those ESEE blades, but make it lighter (thinner stock), with better cutting performance (thinner behind the edge). Those are things that I think people can appreciate. Whether or not this is worth it to people, is something else entirely.

That said, when I see 3v blades with the same geometry as 1095 blades I get a little sad inside, as they're clearly not taking advantage of the better properties of 3v in the design. If a 5/32in thick 1095 blade is more than thick enough to survive the abuse I give it, then I'd like to see the 3v version in 1/8 or 3/32in blade stock.

And while I bet a good number of people around here are city folk (myself included), I think there may be more here that use their blades heavily than you think.

I agree but, most of the time I don't know if the added performance would offset the added cost.

 

[bld522]

I think you're right, in the sense that 1095 (and many other steels) will hold an edge well enough to cut most anything that would need cutting . . .

. . . and last a lifetime and sharpen easily and never let you down and get passed down to your kids. And you NEED an alloy that can do more than that because?

I agree but, most of the time I don't know if the added performance would offset the added cost.

Would you be surprised if I suggested that the added performance isn't the real reason why folks around here are willing to pay the added cost?

Despite those who proclaim that they ONLY think of their knives as tools, I'd say the REAL truth is that most of us are knife geeks who want the latest and greatest alloys available even if we'll never come close to taking "cheap" steels like 1095 to the limit of their capabilities.

 

[ocnLogan]

I agree but, most of the time I don't know if the added performance would offset the added cost.

I can't answer that for you, or anyone else either. I just know that there are performance increases from better materials. Its up to the end user/buyer to decide if they want those things more than the amount of money it would cost them over a 1095 (or other good basic steel).

. . . and last a lifetime and sharpen easily and never let you down and get passed down to your kids. And you NEED an alloy that can do more than that because?

I never said "need" at all. I was just pointing out some of the potential benefits that a different alloy could provide (in addition to the fact that 3v is almost stainless). I don't own anything more fancy than 1095cv, L6, or 440c, and am happy with how they perform. However, I could see how having a tool that does the same thing (either the same, with more toughness, or the same toughness, but does the task better) could be appealing.

Oh, and I do plan to hand down tools to my kids.

And I feel that the same thing could be said of most any well made blade to be honest. 3v has somewhat more wear resistance than 1095, but not so much that its going to require crazy sharpening methods or tools. And I honestly feel that people frequently get wear resistance and hardness mixed up a bit. Its easy to say that one steel is harder to sharpen than the other, when many times you're comparing ~56-58rc steel to a ~63rc steel (let alone any wear resistance differences between the steels).

 

[The Aflac Duck]

This thread is... interesting...

I've used all types of steel at work. Things like YXR7 @ 65.2 HRC, all the way to N690 @ 59 HRC. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but... eventually, they all got dull...

But what do I know... I'm just a construction worker that uses all of his knives...

 

[Wolf7]

My cheap $5 folder with 420 steel is a better slicer than my more expensive ATS-34 SD/tactical, because of better blade shape and grind geometry. Yet I do 90% of all cutting use and abuse with cheap one. You only need expensive knifes with fancy steels for 2 reasons, when your life depends on it SD/tactical/survival or fancy one of a kind custom art knife. Decent quality cheap knife with good blade shape and grind geometry will perform just as good as an expensive knife for 80% of all tusks ask of it. Because, they are made from cheap steel they are easy to touch up/sharpen in the field. If you break cheap one, you can always buy 10 more $5 knives as spares without breaking bank. Most of us will never get full value/use of super-duper-pooper flavor of the month steels being promoted today. So yes cheaper knives can perform above their weight.

 

[bld522]

I never said "need" at all. I was just pointing out some of the potential benefits that a different alloy could provide (in addition to the fact that 3v is almost stainless). I don't own anything more fancy than 1095cv, L6, or 440c, and am happy with how they perform. However, I could see how having a tool that does the same thing (either the same, with more toughness, or the same toughness, but does the task better) could be appealing.

Appealing? Yes. Necessary? No. And don't get me wrong. I like supersteels as much as the next guy. But if they all suddenly disappeared and the only thing I was left with was 1095, I'd get by very, very well indeed. Wouldn't you?

 

[Tachead01]

. . . and last a lifetime and sharpen easily and never let you down and get passed down to your kids. And you NEED an alloy that can do more than that because?



Would you be surprised if I suggested that the added performance isn't the real reason why folks around here are willing to pay the added cost?

Despite those who proclaim that they ONLY think of their knives as tools, I'd say the REAL truth is that most of us are knife geeks who want the latest and greatest alloys available even if we'll never come close to taking "cheap" steels like 1095 to the limit of their capabilities.

I agree completely. Need has nothing to do with it most of the time and those that think it does are either fooling themselves or using the guise of need to justify their purchase when want is the real reason.

 

[bld522]

Or just feeding their addiction like I am . . .

 

[craytab]

Sisyphus

Exactlyt...but wait...are you saying we need food and water but not 1095, 3v, or the internet?

Three cheers for Maslow :thumbup:! By the way, is craytab Kardas brother? Just wondering .

Sorry, who are you again? Oh right, nobody. Best keep the karda insults out your mouth kid.

. . . and last a lifetime and sharpen easily and never let you down and get passed down to your kids. And you NEED an alloy that can do more than that because?


Would you be surprised if I suggested that the added performance isn't the real reason why folks around here are willing to pay the added cost?

Despite those who proclaim that they ONLY think of their knives as tools, I'd say the REAL truth is that most of us are knife geeks who want the latest and greatest alloys available even if we'll never come close to taking "cheap" steels like 1095 to the limit of their capabilities.

And that right there is the point. See that Tchead? We rarely need anything. To argue about what we "need" on a knife hobby forum is a bit ridiculous. We are knife nuts (well, some of us). Dorks of the knife world. Lots of us use knives daily, some don't, some just enjoy knife collecting or otherwise. It's fun aint it? I'll bet not a one of us even needs 1095 technology. But who freaking cares what we need!

 

[bld522]

And the truth is revealed. :thumbup:

KNIFE KNUTS UNITE!!! Oh wait. We already have . . .

 

[Tachead01]

Exactlyt...but wait...are you saying we need food and water but not 1095, 3v, or the internet?



Sorry, who are you again? Oh right, nobody. Best keep the karda insults out your mouth kid.



And that right there is the point. See that Tchead? We rarely need anything. To argue about what we "need" on a knife hobby forum is a bit ridiculous. We are knife nuts (well, some of us). Dorks of the knife world. Lots of us use knives daily, some don't, some just enjoy knife collecting or otherwise. It's fun aint it? I'll bet not a one of us even needs 1095 technology. But who freaking cares what we need!

I get your point man. But, not everyone has come to grips with that fact on here. Many guys argue they "need" 3V, S90V, Elmax, exc. on here everyday while they sit in a cubical cutting printer paper on their lunch breaks. It's pretty funny actually, maybe we should just shut up and enjoy the comedy lol.

 

[Boris74]

Exactlyt...but wait...are you saying we need food and water but not 1095, 3v, or the internet?



Sorry, who are you again? Oh right, nobody. Best keep the karda insults out your mouth kid.



And that right there is the point. See that Tchead? We rarely need anything. To argue about what we "need" on a knife hobby forum is a bit ridiculous. We are knife nuts (well, some of us). Dorks of the knife world. Lots of us use knives daily, some don't, some just enjoy knife collecting or otherwise. It's fun aint it? I'll bet not a one of us even needs 1095 technology. But who freaking cares what we need!

To argue about what we need on a knife hobby forum.

The knife to me is not the hobby. The knife is there for my hobby, the knife is also there for work.

I don't need to pay more for "better" when what I use is already much more than what I actually need.

User vs collector.

I'm going fishing now, and yes I always start a fire for the bug repelling characteristics. I will use fat wood I harvested with my basic carbon steel blades and prep the wood with them too. I will then use a 12c27 stainless blade to start it.

Think of ways 3V will make it easier for me to do any of this. Thank you sir!

 

[Tachead01]

And the truth is revealed. :thumbup:

KNIFE KNUTS UNITE!!! Oh wait. We already have . . .

Lol. Yeah, it is nice to have a place to share our common interest.

 

[craytab]

I get your point man. But, not everyone has come to grips with that fact on here. Many guys argue they "need" 3V, S90V, Elmax, exc. on here everyday while they sir in a cubical cutting printer paper on their lunch breaks. It's pretty funny actually, maybe we should just shut up and enjoy the comedy lol.

I think it is just as funny as a guy on the internet telling knife nuts on a knife hobby forum they don't need their favorite steel because all they do is cut printer paper all day, without knowing if they only cut printer paper all day. I am sitting back and watching the comedy.

 

[craytab]

I don't need to pay more for "better" when what I use is already much more than what I actually need.

User vs collector.

So, folks that use better materials than you are only collectors. Care to expand on that?

I'm going fishing now, and yes I always start a fire for the bug repelling characteristics. I will use fat wood I harvested with my basic carbon steel blades and prep the wood with them too. I will then use a 12c27 stainless blade to start it.

Think of ways 3V will make it easier for me to do any of this. Thank you sir!

Well good for you. Hope you catch something!

 

[bld522]

So, folks that use better materials than you are only collectors. Care to expand on that?

Clearly that's not the case. But I get Boris's point about not paying for more than he needs . . . assuming that he only buys knives he needs. If he does, he's in the minority around here.

 

[Tachead01]

I think it is just as funny as a guy on the internet telling knife nuts on a knife hobby forum they don't need their favorite steel because all they do is cut printer paper all day, without knowing if they only cut printer paper all day. I am sitting back and watching the comedy.

Your a real confrontation guy aren't you man? I am not trying to fight here. I was clearly generalizing and I know that. What's the matter did you get a paper cut lol. Chill out man.

 

[Tachead01]

So, folks that use better materials than you are only collectors. Care to expand on that?



Well good for you. Hope you catch something!

No, folks that use better materials then are needed for the task are wasteful. But, that's OK if that's what makes them happy. After all, happiness is the most import thing imo. It's just sad that so many derive happiness from material possessions these days. But hey, we are all guilty of that from time to time.