China & Tariffs

Sal Glesser said:
As many of you know (or should now) that there are tariffs being created for many products made in China, as well as other countries. You also know that we make a number of products in China, including knives and sharpening parts. We're already experiencing these tariffs on some of the steels we import. Eventually we are going to be hit with up to 25% in tariffs for our Chinese made models. Naturally we will have to pass on those costs. I would like to know your thoughts on this?
The thing that bugs me about China is we spend the money and do the research to create products and they just steal it and produce products cheaper because they don't have to do the work. (they're parasites)
Plus they are a communists and the people don't have the same rights and freedoms we have in this country. (freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, due process in the courts etc etc.)
The communist leaders in China are pretty much control freaks. I guess if you have 1.4 billion people it makes you a little nervous.
So, I will not buy a Chinese knife on ethical grounds. But your average Joe doesn't care about any of those things, they just buy the cheaper product. They are the same people who are buying Chinese knock off's.
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Sal Glesser said:
A lot of good info so far. Thanx much. At this time we don't know where or what will ultimately end up. I think the end will be far different than the current discussion.
they're just moving pawns at this time.

sal
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Any chance we'll see some less expensive domestic models as a result? Perhaps an FRN Millie?
 
Personally I think leaving the line the way it is would be good as there are some good knives being made there. I just bought a Byrd Hawkbill to me it feels sturdy, it’s my first Byrd knife and I think it has a very good chance of standing up to the abuse I put my knives through at work with flying colors. So to me the Byrd line is where I send someone who knows they want a good knife but aren’t quite a knife enthusiast or if they don’t care about the steel.

What would be nice though since the price is going up is have a new line around the $10 mark if that’s even possible as a gateway drug to Spyderco. Kind of like what Rough Rider is to tradition slip joint owners. I always admired the construction of my Kabar Dozier for example with its extreme simplicity it looks like it was designed to be built at a price point and ease of manufacturing but the end result is better than the sum of it parts. So handles built out of FRN or other material built to hit a low price point paired with 3cr blade steel and have models closely related to the normal Spyderco line just like the Byrd line is doing so you can test out something close to a Delica, Endura, etc to see if you want one.

The Byrd line can also serves the same purpose I mentioned for testing out what a normal Spyderco would be but it’s not at a low enough price point for impulse buys for me or anyone I personally know.

Wishful thinking, but I figure I chim in since I saw a some people post they don’t bother with the knives made in China. Figure I post to keep the lineup and bring up some very inexpensive entry level knives that are still quality made would be cool to see.
 
Bob6794 said:
Personally I think leaving the line the way it is would be good as there are some good knives being made there. I just bought a Byrd Hawkbill to me it feels sturdy, it’s my first Byrd knife and I think it has a very good chance of standing up to the abuse I put my knives through at work with flying colors. So to me the Byrd line is where I send someone who knows they want a good knife but aren’t quite a knife enthusiast or if they don’t care about the steel.

What would be nice though since the price is going up is have a new line around the $10 mark if that’s even possible as a gateway drug to Spyderco. Kind of like what Rough Rider is to tradition slip joint owners. I always admired the construction of my Kabar Dozier for example with its extreme simplicity it looks like it was designed to be built at a price point and ease of manufacturing but the end result is better than the sum of it parts. So handles built out of FRN or other material built to hit a low price point paired with 3cr blade steel and have models closely related to the normal Spyderco line just like the Byrd line is doing so you can test out something close to a Delica, Endura, etc to see if you want one.

The Byrd line can also serves the same purpose I mentioned for testing out what a normal Spyderco would be but it’s not at a low enough price point for impulse buys for me or anyone I personally know.

Wishful thinking, but I figure I chim in since I saw a some people post they don’t bother with the knives made in China. Figure I post to keep the lineup and bring up some very inexpensive entry level knives that are still quality made would be cool to see.
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You want Spyderco to compete with gas station knives and offer quality at a $10 price point?
 
I’m thinking more of the Bug line but larger if that makes more sense. So no definitely not some gas station knife.

There is different ideals of what quality is. One may say fit and finish, build materials. In this sense I guess you could say functional and reliable while keeping the others in check.

I used Rough Rider as an example first as they are better than the gas station knives you mentioned by far, in their traditional patterns at least since I’ve tried those. Thruth be told my Rough Riders are every bit as capable as my GEC, Cannal Cutlery, and AG Russels, the part their lacking in is the fit and finish and more premium materials.

The dozier reference was because I’ve read somewhere this knife was designed to be easily and cheaply manufactured. And having taken it apart I believe it, but the tolerances and design choices in the handle made sure there wasn’t compromises in what you received. It wouldn’t surprise me if most of the cost was from the manufacturing it was the blade choice and country of origin when compared to the competition.

Hopefully that paints a better picture of what I was trying to convey. So an entry level steel, and more simple handle if that even makes a difference while still keeping tolerances in check.
 
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Bob6794 said:
I’m thinking more of the Bug line but larger if that makes more sense. So no definitely not some gas station knife.

There is different ideals of what quality is. One may say fit and finish, build materials. In this sense I guess you could say functional and reliable while keeping the others in check.

I used Rough Rider as an example first as they are better than the gas station knives you mentioned by far, in their traditional patterns at least since I’ve tried those. Thruth be told my Rough Riders are every bit as capable as my GEC, Cannal Cutlery, and AG Russels, the part their lacking in is the fit and finish and more premium materials.

The dozier reference was because I’ve read somewhere this knife was designed to be easily and cheaply manufactured. And having taken it apart I believe it, but the tolerances and design choices in the handle made sure there wasn’t compromises in what you received. It wouldn’t surprise me if most of the cost was from the manufacturing it was the blade choice and country of origin when compared to the competition.

Hopefully that paints a better picture of what I was trying to convey. So an entry level steel, and more simple handle if that even makes a difference while still keeping tolerances in check.
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Yeah but $10 or really under $30 is getting in gas station territory. The Byrd line is already pretty cheap. I wont even recommend those personally when recommending a blade, cheaper than a dragonfly or the Tenacious and the like and I recommend another brand.
 
I read on MSN today that Trump and Xi (of China) ended the tariff between the US and China yesterday.
 
The tariffs are part of the negotiation strategy to balance trade more fairly. It already worked out to some extent with Mexico and Canada. It will also work out with China.
 
I don't happen to own or plan on owning any Chinese Spydercos at this time. Now Japan would be a different story. The delica/endura and salts are my most owned/used knives. I would much rather pay 25% more then have to deal with not being able to buy them in the future. As long as Japan isn't affected with this I cant complain. It will be sad to see all the budget friendly models go though if that does turn out to be the case.
 
8-9 years ago ammunition got expensive and it was even difficult to find primers for reloading. My adjustment was I shot less on my own, reduced the events I participated in and didn’t purchase any new ammo (I had plenty of ammo at home so no need buying new supplies at elevated prices).

If knives start to see crazy prices I will not buy any new knives for presents and gifts to others. I can understand there will be reasons why prices can increase and I will not hate on Spyderco. Just means I will stop buying like I do today. Good thing with Spyderco quality is my knives will last for many years.
 
I rarely buy folder that aren't Spyderco, not necessarily because of brand loyalty or prices, but I prefer the locking mechanisms, quality, and designs. Price increases won't change that for me.
 
I work with steel products (piping), and I can tell you that this is a very very muddy issue. I'm not sure how similar CMTRs (Certified Mill Test Reports) are for blade steel, but for piping and piping components, the country of origin is not required on the MTR. You could potentially have a "domestic" product that has components (or even down to the smelt/melt/ingot level) that comes from China. You even have to go so far as to define what "Country of Origin" actually is. It's the world we live in. China is the world's largest steel producer, by a significant margin. They are also the largest steel importer, as much of our scrap metal goes there. So they're even selling the same metal back to us in some cases, ha.

My hunch is that even some of the US Steel mills have some raw material that comes from China. With that said, I don't know that the tariff will just be effecting "import" steel, but even "domestic". You also have to figure that any material that doesn't come from an affected country will have an even higher premium.
 
Freedom Pullo said:
This is a great idea! I love 52100 but DLC coated 1095 would a great work blade :thumbsup:
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But they'll cost $2 each more than they would have because Sal yas to give me my cut. ;)

If it was a solid designed folder I would buy one in a second. So would a lot of people that are outdoor folk. Has to have a Spyderesque look and the hole though.
 
Megawatt308 said:
8-9 years ago ammunition got expensive and it was even difficult to find primers for reloading. My adjustment was I shot less on my own, reduced the events I participated in and didn’t purchase any new ammo (I had plenty of ammo at home so no need buying new supplies at elevated prices).

If knives start to see crazy prices I will not buy any new knives for presents and gifts to others. I can understand there will be reasons why prices can increase and I will not hate on Spyderco. Just means I will stop buying like I do today. Good thing with Spyderco quality is my knives will last for many years.
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I wonder if the price increases are because people take apart and then return knives to sellers?
I think I read somewhere that Sal has the sellers return the knives to Spyderco rather than risk having a bad product (disassembled and re-assembled poorly) sold to an innocent person. maybe they are sold as seconds, so Spyderco loses money. The handling costs alone have to be quite a bit of money.
All you really need to do to maintain your knife is to run it through hot water and soap, let it dry and re-oil it.
 
Don W said:
Tariffs do not level any imaginary playing field. They only hurt the manufacturer and end users wallet. Free trade is the answer. Free trade has always been the answer.
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There’s no such thing as free trade or fee markets. That’s a complete fantasy. They’re always controlled by someone or some entity. ALWAYS. Regulation is the only way to keep some billionaires or some government from gaining a monopoly or other unfair advantage. Will this spat help, maybe but somehow I doubt it. Time will tell.

As to the original issue brought up by Sal, whatever man. This isn’t your fault but I see how you’d be concerned with a bunch of angry customers. There’s always those people who think prices will never change and throw hissy fits even though prices always change. Pass the cost down to the customer like every other business. You’ll have customers that won’t get it but there’s not much you can do about that IMO.
 
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