Chinese clones of Chinese brands

a quick review of the clones offered by Dicoria brought up this beauty....the irony of a Quartermaster knife being "cloned" and for sale is just too good:-)

DICORIA-Quartermaster-M390-blade-TC4-titanium-Tactical-ball-bearing-Flipper-folding-knife-camp-outdoor-survival-knives.jpg_640x640.jpg
 
The funny/scary thing about the Quartermaster clone is that I honestly can't see a single difference from what I can find of images of theirs on-line. Which either means they come from China in the first place or that clone is a perfect counterfeit/clone.
 
marcinek said:
Well that's good, because you wouldn't want to buy a clone that had bogus steel.
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Well, this way the makers know not to screw around with blade steels and not to scam the customers.
Like I've mentioned before - reputation is everything in this field, and if you screw up once - no one will buy your knives again.
At least they test the clones and not just allow cases like that LAPG TBFK knife that allegedly has S35VN for $35 and no one calls them out on that scam (very low chance it really has S35VN blade IMO)!
Here is some footage from the testing btw:
1. M390 blade on the Evil Eyes Integral SnG:
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/cut77ler/album/547239/view/1444917?page=0

2. S35VN blade on the GT Tabargan:
https://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/cut77ler/album/547239/view/1444919?page=0
 
AtechReviews said:
Well, this way the makers know not to screw around with blade steels and not to scam the customers.
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So the whole "cloning" thing is fine...but fake steel is a problem. That's the scam! :rolleyes:

I see from your blog that you linked to, that you have no issue with clones including the Ganzo G759, a blatant knockoff of the Spyderco Delica...

I'll say it like this - I appreciate this knife very much, because it dominates the model is is a copy of and if I had to choose from it or the Byrd (even at the same price) I would choose the G759.​

:thumbsdown:
 
trevitrace said:
Nope.
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I mean, the "usual suspect" sites are even claiming it is a Mick Strider knife.

A AtechReviews , you are certain welcome to enjoy, buy, and use these knockoffs, but you will find many many members here respect, and consider friends, the people those knives are ripping off.

And your defense of those knives may only make you viewed with suspicion.
 
AtechReviews said:
Thanks for pointing out the double "is" mistake, just corrected it.
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I was not pointing out your grammatical error.

I was pointing out your endorsement of counterfeit knives, which you have justified by saying that "Well, the counterfeiters tell us the steel is real...and they wouldn't pull a scam."

:eek:

Like I said, enjoy your knives.
 
AtechReviews said:
Thanks man, I appreciate that.
To tell you the truth, I prefer clones (the ones that don't have an original logo on them).
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Here is the thing man. I like you have no issue with clones. Counterfeits im not really a fan of and have eliminated them in my collection and wont be getting more. But the forum in general has a stance that is firmly against them. You wont find many people willing to openly discuss them without it becoming more about you and not the actual knives.

Its kinda like dont ask dont tell and dont condone or promote anything in that realm and you will generally be left to enjoy the forum with only the occassional kick to the stones. But any attempt to educate that isnt laced with pure condemnation and its likely going to be met with large amounts of resistance.

In other words the majority of the forum and those who operate it have made it clear this just isnt te place for it. Free speech simply isnt protected in a private community with rules against such products.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
As much as i agree with 90% of what you said i dont think the drug comparison is valid. Drugs are patented and when the patent runs out (usually 10 years) they become fair game. And you can always vet where a drug was made and who made it. Not so much with clones. Either way, the rest of it i think your spot on about.
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I think the drug comparison fits quite well. Patents don't say anything about who makes a drug or even its efficacy. It simply grants a monopoly for a fixed period of time. What gets me about knife nuts is how vociferously some defend "intellectual property" as if we have a stake in other people's intellectual property. Even when there are no patents involved. Effectively, no real property of anybody even involved. The more passionate knife nuts want us all to behave not only like knife designs have some kind of patented status, even when it doesn't exist, but act as if patented status is in effect in perpetuity.

Copies are A-OK. Counterfeits are not. If an actual patent is being infringed upon, that's the business of the actual patent holder, not you or me. A lot of this is simply misplaced concern. As far as anybody can tell, with all the copies, and even counterfeits, on the market, there is no shortage of new designs, there are likely more knives on the market know than ever before. And the market appears stronger than it's ever been. It's hard to say that the industry has been hurt. The mean old free market makes for some real good times for knife nuts overall.
 
shecky said:
I think the drug comparison fits quite well. Patents don't say anything about who makes a drug or even its efficacy. It simply grants a monopoly for a fixed period of time. What gets me about knife nuts is how vociferously some defend "intellectual property" as if we have a stake in other people's intellectual property. Even when there are no patents involved. Effectively, no real property of anybody even involved. The more passionate knife nuts want us all to behave not only like knife designs have some kind of patented status, even when it doesn't exist, but act as if patented status is in effect in perpetuity.

Copies are A-OK. Counterfeits are not. If an actual patent is being infringed upon, that's the business of the actual patent holder, not you or me. A lot of this is simply misplaced concern. As far as anybody can tell, with all the copies, and even counterfeits, on the market, there is no shortage of new designs, there are likely more knives on the market know than ever before. And the market appears stronger than it's ever been. It's hard to say that the industry has been hurt. The mean old free market makes for some real good times for knife nuts overall.
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Listen I'm one of the least concerned when it comes to IP. I have very relaxed views on the stuff. I was just saying that the drug comparison wasn't valid IMHO simply because drugs offer some kind of protection that at some point runs out and then other companies are allowed to make their versions of it. With knives there is no such clause where at some point people feel its ok to copy because the design is old or dated. I wasn't stating my personal views on issue simply because they are well known by most at this point. I try not to even go as deep as you do with it anymore simply because I usually have to argue around a bunch of double standards and vitriol. Its really not a topic that can be discussed like an adult because people simply take other peoples business way too personally
 
PURPLEDC said:
In other words the majoritynof the forum and those who operate it have made it clear this just isnt te place for it. Free speech simply isnt protected in a private community with rules against such products.
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More like others are free to express their disgust with underhanded practices, when one freely espouses them.
Freedom...it doesn't only go in one direction. ;)
 
PURPLEDC said:
Its kinda like dont ask dont tell and dont condone or promote anything in that realm and you will generally be left to enjoy the forum with only the occassional kick to the stones. But any attempt to educate that isnt laced with pure condemnation and its likely going to be met with large amounts of resistance.

In other words the majoritynof the forum and those who operate it have made it clear this just isnt te place for it. Free speech simply isnt protected in a private community with rules against such products.
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I kinda knew that coming to this forum and didn't try to condone or promote any clone here, but just share the information that I have on the subject (because of the misinformation and speculation that was spread around it).
Other participants started quoting from my blog and pointing out to my publications on other platforms.

I believe correct info and free speech (within the objective rules) should be the cornerstones of any forum and above other people's preferences, prejudices and biases, otherwise it will turn to a dark one with communist values, such as censorship.

Good example of a place like this is the Shirogorov owners club, in which you can't say or show anything bad about the Shirogorov knives or you will be expelled and banned from the club.
 
Atech, You seem to have the impression that for some reason you have any more credibility than anyone else here. Purple has a history of a live-and-let-live when it comes to this stuff. Everyone else is wrapping a fresh set of torches and sharpening the pitchforks. Peaceant can try to justify his purchases however lets him sleep at night, the fact that the EU doesn't much have time for clones (saw lots of brick and mortar stores in germany with with fake sebbies on the shelf) doesn't much matter. The thing is, I know the song they are going to sing, don't much care for it, but agree to disagree as it where since at least one of them is amusing from time to time. But if that is the only agenda you have to push, then you might as well keep walking. Clones hurt everyone. They hurt spyderco when fakes end up in retail stores, hurt Falkniven when their entry level knife gets cloned and is garbage, they hurt smaller OEMs like Rowen for the same reason. They also hurt designers who can't fairly profit from their work, and they make it harder for those folks to make a living. They also dilute the market for the smaller makers. Sure we know what a custom maker is capable of, but clones and "handmade" knives take away that credibility, so everyone assumes that the small makers are taking the easy route.

Now that said, you will find a lot of interest here for value knives, so if you were to use your knowledge to point people in the direction of makers who are honest, and explain the link between designer, manufacturer, exporter and marketer, then there is value there. I'm sure there is a lot of value to be found in China and by and large you will find that anyone who makes blanket statements about any country producing poor work better have his fire-proof shorts on because the flames will come. But the moment you say that anyone can justify a copy or clone, you are just a shill. Also, flush the free speech stuff, this is Spark's house, we are here at his leisure. Truth is valued yes, but don't get caught by thinking you can say whatever you want with regards to opinions. Lastly, this is the internet, you connect the dots, we'll follow them, you are only worth your words, and many have been toasted before you because their true colors got found out. You do you, but we like people of single face, yeah?
 
stabman said:
More like others are free to express their disgust with underhanded practices, when one freely espouses them.
Freedom...it doesn't only go in one direction. ;)
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I wasnt meaning that it should be any other way. This is a private forum. Just like guys cant expect to walk into a private club if they arent a member. I was simply saying that we as members of a community are expected to be a part of that community rather than expect a whole community to conform to individuals. The only reason i even mentioned free speech is because it is often times used as a reason in which others think the topic of clones and counterfeits is acceptable. Not that its my position. Either way, I may not even agree with it. But I dont have to. I just have to accept it.
 
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