Chinese quality and offerings better than North American?

It's not ethnocentrism to want to support more labor-friendly business practices.
 
If you don't mind buying from brands with zero transparency and virtually no warranty have at it.
 
Sosa said:
If you don't mind buying from brands with zero transparency and virtually no warranty have at it.
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This is the direction that these threads always turn to. Kizer for example is at all the major shows and does warranty work in the US. I get the impression that some people think China is nothing more then one giant sweat shop with mindless drones as workers...To all the thread crappers out there, we get it you'll never buy a Chinese knife.
 
I will never be able to afford a "Chinese made" knife, so I will never be able to really answer the question of how well they are made.
 
Dvin211 said:
This is the direction that these threads always turn to. Kizer for example is at all the major shows and does warranty work in the US. I get the impression that some people think China is nothing more then one giant sweat shop with mindless drones as workers...To all the thread crappers out there, we get it you'll never buy a Chinese knife.
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Considering how less than 1/3 of the US population have a college degree, most Americans are very ignorant of things outside their hometown. They'd be surprised to realize how rich the Chinese have gotten or how other countries have caught up so fast and are slowly surpassing us in terms of living standards. Take a look at some of the new Chinese cities, $1,000,000 is nothing in some of those places just like here in the Bay Area in California or in New York. That is not the majority, but claiming Chinese are communist or they're sweatshop peasants isn't accurate.
 
I remember when the knife trade was going no where, as in the 70 and early 80's. Suddenly, some enthusiasts started making new stuff, both in quality and new designs. Cold Steel Mater Tanto, Chris Reeve, Al mAR, heck Benchmade, plus a few others. The new stuff was sexy. Some brands survived some disappeared.

Now with CAD design and CNC machines and all the latest manufacturing processes making and producing new designs has never been easier. Those with reputations are doing collaborations which adds to the marketing and hype. The Chinese have jumped on the bandwagon.
Classic designs may well still sell, but sexy new designs sell too and getting a premium. There is fresh new toys every year and for every pocket.
Frankly, the consumer is spoilt for choice.

What was said about China could have been easily said about Japan, Taiwan, or quite a few places a few years back.

Take a look at the American car industry compared to Europe or Japan. Would anyone have thought Chicago would have dropped off the planet in such a way. It was on the cards for years and propped up, which when the fall came made it that much more harsh.

Great Britain does the same, and had many traditional industries fall hard.

Old industries move along, and new ones take its place. Microsoft.... Apple....

There is still good businesses to be had. Even small knife making businesses. Just got to be good at what you do and deliver something others aren't doing, at the right price. No one owes anyone a job, or a market. Good products are good products, just got to keep the competition at bay with whatever it takes. Protectionism doesn't work. Being dynamic can. Didn't say it was easy.

Don't blame the Chinese...

Lastly, I think some of the prices asked are far too high for robot made knives. Fool the consumer for paying so much. Same goes for the watch trade where a fraction of the costs are actually the materials and production. Knives are just another consumer product. I just hope some small companies survive and continue to put some human input into their products. Doesn't make them better products, but it will be a sad day if they can't eke out some market share.


..
 
The Reate knives did not do it for me, but the WE knives have peaked my curiousity.

I think for many it is less a political thing than a fan thing.

I am a unrepentant fan of ZT/Kershaw, Spyderco, Buck, Emerson, Benchmade; in that order - but is it REALLY about USA made? I dunno.

Sports fans tend to be "fanatical" about the team that is in proximity to them, be it where they grew up, where they live now, where they became "sports aware".

Knives and fanaticism is not much different in my view. I do support Americans and do my best to buy USA Made, I put my money where my mouth is, but if I want a product and it is made elsewhere, then so goes my cash.

best

mqqn
 
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I just did some Google searching for both reate and kizer, and I every single knife I saw from both companies were what I consider gaudy and ugly.
So based on that alone I feel like they're just not companies that I'll ever like.
Before they just costed more than I'd ever pay for Chinese knives, but now I have a legitimate reason not to like them.
So I guess that now I can just forget about where there made.
 
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Seilu said:
Considering how less than 1/3 of the US population have a college degree, most Americans are very ignorant of things outside their hometown. They'd be surprised to realize how rich the Chinese have gotten or how other countries have caught up so fast and are slowly surpassing us in terms of living standards. Take a look at some of the new Chinese cities, $1,000,000 is nothing in some of those places just like here in the Bay Area in California or in New York. That is not the majority, but claiming Chinese are communist or they're sweatshop peasants isn't accurate.
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Actually China is certainly a communist country. But hey buy the Chinese knives, I'll buy the American ones and we'll both be happy.
 
Haven't jumped to a China knife yet... have looked around at 'em a bit.
I bought Spyderco and ZT in the last four or five days. I'm especially happy with their products.
 
I'm considering one of those Ti framelock folders from Kizer, the overall look and quality seems to be on par with my standards.
The price is correct and the knife seems great... Anyway I'll be able to return it if I don't like it so I will take the plunge.
I had a lot of misbeliefs regarding China made products, until I got my hands on a Norinco 1911... talk about a reliable tank of a gun...
 
marcinek said:
...and let the politics commence.

Who woulda seen that coming? :(
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Right? The only thing in common between knives and politics, is often times one of these is used to stab another in the back.

China manufactures everything between garbage and gold. There's nearly 1.5 Billion people living in China; someone's bound to have access to decent machines and materials.
 
Here's the deal: With China you never know for certain whether or not you are getting what you pay for. That is just truth. Even Chinese tend to stay away from Chinese manufactured items if they can do so. Taiwan and Hong Kong are different matters. Also, the Chinese have an agreement with the USA and are in trouble with the WTO because of their practices. They import very little of our stuff and when they do, they charge huge taxes on those items so they are too costly for all but the ultra rich (how does that happen in a Communist country that they have ultra rich people?). We are unable to compete fairly. They then send a huge amount of cheaply made or inexpensively made items to the USA, made so cheaply and are not taxed in the same way, that we cannot compete.

China makes fake honey and it is routed through many countries and then sold in America as the real thing but it is full of chemicals. They sell apples grown in toxic soil labeled as whatever nation is currently in growing season. They scoop up cooking oil from the gutters, strain it, and resell it as new all over world. They have put car anti-freeze in toothpaste contracted by major companies around the world, including the USA, and killed or hospitalized a lot of people before they were caught. Money is god to them. They pray to the dead for money. They burn imitation money to the dead in order to get money. They believe that morality is getting money and prosperity and if you get it, whatever you did to get it is right. If you do not get it you are immoral. I could go on, but those of you that have not lived in the shadow of China need to rethink.
 
FullMetalJackass said:
I'm considering one of those Ti framelock folders from Kizer, the overall look and quality seems to be on par with my standards.
The price is correct and the knife seems great... Anyway I'll be able to return it if I don't like it so I will take the plunge.
I had a lot of misbeliefs regarding China made products, until I got my hands on a Norinco 1911... talk about a reliable tank of a gun...
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C'mon man ! The 1911 one of the most American things in existence next to the buck 110 and mountain dew and you got one from China 😁😁😁😁
What would J M Browning say ( actually he'd probably say you shoulda got got it from Belgium )
I can understand getting something that's a helluva deal just to try a platform out, if that's the Case.
 
Sosa said:
If you don't mind buying from brands with zero transparency and virtually no warranty have at it.
Click to expand...

Best summing up of the entire thread...

I usually find almost all factory fixed blade knives below par because of overly thick edge geometry, including many US brands and especially Bokers, even including a lot of Seki City stuff, so the chances I would go for Chinese fixed blade stuff is somewhat less than nil... A lot of $1000 custom fixed blades don't exactly blow me away, and even 2k Liles often need a lot of re-grinding help because they are quite "wobbly" in surface finish...

The SOG Chinese made knives steel is hard but not properly tempered, so it holds an edge but may shatter on impact. Or it will bend easily, as in the SOG "Fixation Dagger", which bent very easily in one video, because of not being fully hardened... They truly don't care.

I'm into 1/48th miniature models, and except for the 1/48th Hobby Boss T-34 and KVs tanks (and the TBF Avenger), for which they must have had some really outstanding documentation, almost every model I have ever seen DESIGNED in China shows a complete lack of care for the subject matter beyond a superficial appearance of quality, and this extends all the way to the very "high end" pricy stuff, even the premium-priced Great Wall Hobbies (except maybe for one or two of their jets, for which they corrected early flaws).

On the other hand, if a Wingnut Wings WWI biplane, or a 1/32 B-25J, is researched and DESIGNED by Westerners, and only then made in China, it will often be excellent, but not a real Chinese kit in my book: The very same brand that made the excellent Western-Researched 1/32 B-25J tried to "design" a B-17G on their own, and it was pathetic...

The basic issue is they do not understand what quality is beyond "looking good". What is very telling about how deep this attitude runs is that they don't get better over time: On the contrary, after 16 years of producing model kits, they are doing much worse kits today than they were ten years ago... Hobby Boss started very strong ten years ago, and is now a joke, being often called Hobby-boo-boo...

The "appearance" of good edge holding is common on Chinese knives, yet there is no guarantee that the steel has been properly tempered... In general, any manufacturing step that can be skipped, and is not easily verifiable, you are almost required to assume the worst concerning it...

Gaston
 
GREENJACKET said:
I don't know about better, but anyone with the newest technology and machinery can produce knives to a very high quality. Its all to do with investment.

High tech cutting CNC machinery and cutting tools can transfer anything from the design software.
Steels and metals come off the shelf to industry standards.
Heat treatment can be very accurately repeated in large batches to industrial standards.
Most finishes are pretty standard, well bought off the shelf.
Assembly isn't particularly complex.
The rest is design and marketing.


Add it all up its not magic, just business, industrial manufacturing. For the complexity then the price gives excellent returns on investment so long as you can sell plenty of them. Just happens that China with its cheap labour, land, taxes and borrowing can now produce high quality industrial goods. China has seen massive investment so have the latest manufacturing toys and been able to sell around the world as well as their domestic market. For manufacturing they now have the scale and breadth to source all the components required and most importantly of a high enough quality. Wasn't the case a few years back but now they pretty well have it covered.

The rest is economics, and politics. Tax systems and standards of living vary from country to country. Is China doing brilliantly? There are flaws in their model one of which there is no pension pot as of yet. There is a whole bit more but then we would be needing to do the micro and macro economics.

High tuned manufactured goods that have little human input. Something we are buying into more and more. However, perfection gets a bit boring as it loses its soul, which is why custom stuff remains interesting. Some craftsmen can compete with machines, but the premium for the labour adds up to a huge ticket price. China has craftsmen too but they aren't the same costs. Japan too has craftsmen, as do many countries. The price reflects the standards of living.

One of the reasons that investment into knife manufacture has been huge is that there is a market paying high prices. Get it right and its therefore profitable, so long as you can beat the competition with some product advantage, whatever that is.

Just the way it is.

At the end of the day its your disposable income and your call how you spend it. Most of us buy into "a story" as that usually adds value to us.
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Great post.
 
I agree so many Chinese goods have issues. Their quality control sucks. Too often there is some component that is at fault to render the rest useless.
So even though I support free trade, I tend not to buy that many Chinese goods. I don't own a Chinese made knife. I do some clothing and camping stuff, most is designed elsewhere and with brands that ensure the quality is up to scratch; and even then its been mixed results.

In fact though some Chinese goods have got quite good, there has been a backlash to the poor quality. Made in China is a warning that you are taking a gamble as it might be rubbish. I don't trust their goods on higher ticket items. I wouldn't have anything they designed and made; it has to be a collaboration with an existing home brand.

Be selective, buyer beware.
 
What innovations have the Chinese come up with? All the knife innovations that I am aware of are certainly not Chinese. All they can do is copy. That is why I do not buy Chinese knives. I want my money to go to companies who are striving to innovate.

The frame lock.

The pocket clip and Spyderhole.

The Tri-Ad lock.

The Axis lock.

Super Steels.

None of these are Chinese developments.
 
I buy what I like and can afford, regardless of where it's made. The economy is global, now and forever more. Shaking tiny little fists (not directed at any tiny fisted person in particular) at the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese... ain't going to change it.
 
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