Chinese quality and offerings better than North American?

The thread isn't about China making nice knives.

The thread is about North American manufacturers not being able to match Chinese quality.
 
I think it's a global problem affecting USA, Canada, Europe... regarding high taxes level, high cost of manpower and greedy distributors.
 
brancron said:
Can you stop talking about the "attitude" of 1.4 billion people at once? I can no longer tolerate your racist, moronic comments. You have absolutely no idea what the people at Reate, Kizer, Stedemon, WE Knives, Rike, etc. are like. I certainly know what you're like, though; you've made that clear.
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Completely agree.
 
In 1848 Robert Fortune "acquired" some tea plants from China. For us Brits this was a good thing as we then had tea grown in India to break the monopoly. Robert Fortune was a Scot. (There was some real politics about Tea in Boston a few years earlier 1773, that caused a whole heap of trouble).
Us Brits also back engineered porcelain china, and then made our own tea pots.


I do believe Chinese labourers built some of the American railroads. The Irish did too, but I don't know of any good Irish knife makers but they do make Guinness.

So China can produce some good stuff when they put their mind to it. They aren't the only ones to borrow good ideas.
 
Agree.

They are currently making some nice multi-thousand islands in the S. China Sea, much to the dismay of the neighbors who don't get it. After all it is named the South China Sea.
 
Hackenslash said:
When we talk about the new "quality" Chinese knife industry, we're referring to a specific genre of manufacturer. Reate, Kizer, Stedemon, CKF (yes, made in China, assembled in Russia)...maybe even some of the new players like WE or Realsteel...probably a few others that are slipping my mind.

Many posters in this thread are making nebulous claims about Chinese knives lacking proper heat treat or being made of materials other than those claimed, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I'd be curious which particular offerings from the companies in question they have first hand experience with to support such a claim?

Go ahead and buy the knives you like but please stop building straw man arguments to support your personal decisions.
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Amen.
 
I've read a couple of themes, or at least took a couple of themes, reading through this thread for the first time.

First, I don't think that the higher end Chinese manufacturers (Reate, WeKnives) are competing in the exact same market segment as ZT. Hear me out on this.

ZT makes very, very good knives. Their bread-and-butter price point is primarily under $200. The fit and finish is very high; the level of detail and little "extras" is generally a little lower or more plain in order to stay in (what I judge to be) their target price range. Kizer's offerings at the same price points are on par in terms of detail. I'd say fit and finish and quality is similar. The difference then becomes a matter of taste.

ZT does make some +$200 knives. The new 0454 is a great example. Price goes up and so does the level of details. The 0454 is more of a directly competitive knife to what we are seeing out of WeKnives, Reate, and Rike.

What I see coming out of WeKnives, Reate, and Rike is closer to what we are used to seeing from a "mid-tech" segment, but with the backbone of higher production capacity and a very high level of quality control. The WeKnives 601 I have; my Reate SteelCraft Kwaiken - these knives are as if they popped flawlessly, perfectly out of a CAD drawing and into a real in-you-hand knife (in particulary, I'm astounded by just how well made and produced the WeKnives 601 is. Say what you want about style or what the details on the knife are, but - they are executed flawlessly and the fit is perfect.) And I'm not the only person saying this. They are doing this consistently.

Second: Can we please stop with unsubstantiated claims that there is any likelihood - at all - that these companies who are making a significant investment in their products and their reputation are jacking around with false claims of the materials they are using? When you do the work to produce with the machining and design quality that they are, it would be preposterous and totally undermining to their entire operation to do it with junk Ti and poorly heat-treated, fraudulently labeled steel. That's simply the most ridiculous and vindictively xenophobic accusation I can think of.
 
OmarShablotnik said:
I've read a couple of themes, or at least took a couple of themes, reading through this thread for the first time.

First, I don't think that the higher end Chinese manufacturers (Reate, WeKnives) are competing in the exact same market segment as ZT. Hear me out on this.

ZT makes very, very good knives. Their bread-and-butter price point is primarily under $200. The fit and finish is very high; the level of detail and little "extras" is generally a little lower or more plain in order to stay in (what I judge to be) their target price range. Kizer's offerings at the same price points are on par in terms of detail. I'd say fit and finish and quality is similar. The difference then becomes a matter of taste.

ZT does make some +$200 knives. The new 0454 is a great example. Price goes up and so does the level of details. The 0454 is more of a directly competitive knife to what we are seeing out of WeKnives, Reate, and Rike.

What I see coming out of WeKnives, Reate, and Rike is closer to what we are used to seeing from a "mid-tech" segment, but with the backbone of higher production capacity and a very high level of quality control. The WeKnives 601 I have; my Reate SteelCraft Kwaiken - these knives are as if they popped flawlessly, perfectly out of a CAD drawing and into a real in-you-hand knife (in particulary, I'm astounded by just how well made and produced the WeKnives 601 is. Say what you want about style or what the details on the knife are, but - they are executed flawlessly and the fit is perfect.) And I'm not the only person saying this. They are doing this consistently.

Second: Can we please stop with unsubstantiated claims that there is any likelihood - at all - that these companies who are making a significant investment in their products and their reputation are jacking around with false claims of the materials they are using? When you do the work to produce with the machining and design quality that they are, it would be preposterous and totally undermining to their entire operation to do it with junk Ti and poorly heat-treated, fraudulently labeled steel. That's simply the most ridiculous and vindictively xenophobic accusation I can think of.
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Totally. Although the lower priced Reate knives are in the same price range as the higher end ZTs, and after getting a D9 I'm not too impressed with my ZT collection.
 
One issue that I've had with Reate's knives is that they are so strongly associated with Todd Begg. I absolutely hate Begg's designs and can't imagine paying even half their retail price for something that gaudy. Perhaps my distaste for the Begg designs has colored my overall impression of the manufacturer. I will admit, however, that some of the more recent Liong Mah designs look quite nice. I also wish that the entire lineup wasn't flippers, but that's a problem I have with ZT as well. In fact, the Kizer Laconicos look quite nice, but again, flippers...
 
stonproject said:
I can tell you kizers CS is better than spydercos in my experience and on par with benchmades and zt CS
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So you are telling me right now you could call Kizer, ask them to send you a new part for free and they would do that.
Or that you could send your knife directly to Kizer and have it back in less 2-3 weeks for minimal shipping cost and risk.
Or if you really had a problem with the knife/cs/qc you could talk to the owner of the company.
You are probably correct that their service is on par if not better than the companies you stated but I think convenience is a whole other issue.

Not trolling here but trying to learn about Chines companies level of cs and what interactions/examples you have had or seen.
In all honesty and transparency I have never dealt directly with any of the Chinese companies on any level. Although I have bought a Reate Begg Kwaiken which is the bomb.
I have based my opinions in my previous post on perceptions and assumptions. I know a critical fault.

That being said I think I will still buy american knives primarily based on the simple fact of supporting american companies and their employees.

Hope my thoughts and intentions are at lease somewhat clear because I am a crappy writer.
Cheers
 
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folder geek said:
So you are telling me right now you could call Kizer, ask them to send you a new part for free and they would do that.
Or that you could send your knife directly to Kizer and have it back in less 2-3 weeks for minimal shipping cost and risk.
Or if you really had a problem with the knife/cs/qc you could talk to the owner of the company.
You are probably correct that their service is on par if not better than the companies you stated but I think convenience is a whole other issue.
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I've always had some reserve about the ease and convenience of getting a high quality Chinese knife service or repaired. I only have experience with Kizer and Reate, but their responsiveness to service requests has been fairly well represented in their sub-fora. There are a couple of threads specifically commending Kizer for supplying spare parts. Reates now come with a pouch of typically needed spare parts. In an instance of actually needing to ship your knife off to be worked on, I'm not sure if that experience has been as good. Begg and Liong Mah will provide service and support for their Reate collaboration knives. Kizer has been trying for a while to get a Stateside service center up and running. I think the progress on that has been delayed by their moving to a new manufacturing facility in China.

When it comes to shipping your knife off, I think KAI, Benchmade, Spyderco and other US based manufacturers will always have the edge. That's part of what I weigh when deciding to purchase a high quality Chinese knife; is the price lower enough than a comparable US made knife that would provide easier support and service? As the prices go up on these imported knives, they may not win the value argument as often.
 
I've had American Made Knives fail, I've had Chinese Knives Fail and I've had Japanese knives fail. Buy what you like, quite a few companies are producing good things in foreign lands. Off the top of my head, the Kershaw CQC 4k-XL is a great example of a well executed Chinese knife. The Real Steel H6 is also a great example of a good Chinese Knife by a Chinese company. The Benchmade Griptilian is a fine example of an American blade. The Buck Vantage is an example of a hit or miss USA made knife. Any company, anywhere with due diligence can produce a knife as good as or better than an American made blade, it just takes honest business practices, good materials and good qc.
I own plenty of knives from plenty of places, some of my favorite EDC's are a CRKT M16 my brother gave me - Taiwanese Made. I also have my Manix 2 - Good ole USA made and a Kershaw Wade Officer - made in Japan that is better than many slipjoints I've tried that were USA made.
 
I am a total hypocrite about this topic. I love buying knives made in the USA. I have actually not bought many knives that I like do to the fact they are made outside the boarders (I actually just bought my first Taichung Spyderco and that was hard, great knife though). But something about buying a $300 Chinese knife I just can't do it. And I say I'm a hypocrite because as I do that I'm typing on my IPhone 6S Plus and watching the basketball game on my Panasonic TV (China and Japan made and have never once complained about them). Interesting how my mind works.
 
No one is making a made in the USA slip joint pocket knife at the quality and price point of Rough Rider or Rite Edge.
 
The irony here is that the people that preach that they "only buy US made" are sitting there typing that statement on a computer that came from overseas, sitting in a house that's filled with electronics and appliances and other products that all came from overseas. You can't make a stand for something you believe in and still use the very products that you put down. If you want to truly support only the US then go build a log cabin off the grid and live on the land. Even some of the companies that people think are made in the US are sourcing some of their parts from over seas. It's just like the watch community where everything says "Swiss made" when to print that on the watch they only had to assemble something like 20% of that watch in Swittzerland while the rest of the parts and pieces came from elsewhere.
 
mjpgolf1 said:
The irony here is that the people that preach that they "only buy US made" are sitting there typing that statement on a computer that came from overseas, sitting in a house that's filled with electronics and appliances and other products that all came from overseas. You can't make a stand for something you believe in and still use the very products that you put down. If you want to truly support only the US then go build a log cabin off the grid and live on the land. Even some of the companies that people think are made in the US are sourcing some of their parts from over seas. It's just like the watch community where everything says "Swiss made" when to print that on the watch they only had to assemble something like 20% of that watch in Swittzerland while the rest of the parts and pieces came from elsewhere.
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Some of us preach "when given an option buy American"
 
mjpgolf1 said:
The irony here is that the people that preach that they "only buy US made" are sitting there typing that statement on a computer that came from overseas, sitting in a house that's filled with electronics and appliances and other products that all came from overseas. You can't make a stand for something you believe in and still use the very products that you put down. If you want to truly support only the US then go build a log cabin off the grid and live on the land. Even some of the companies that people think are made in the US are sourcing some of their parts from over seas. It's just like the watch community where everything says "Swiss made" when to print that on the watch they only had to assemble something like 20% of that watch in Swittzerland while the rest of the parts and pieces came from elsewhere.
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Pretty much what I said in post 93
 
It would be interesting to see a better percentage of the knives in the hands of regular users and not collectors. If there are issues with the knives they would be apparent in action outside the safe.
 
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