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Chisel Grind...Why?
- Thread starter d762nato
- Start date
BluegrassBrian
Gold Member
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- Apr 20, 2015
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I've never owned a chisel ground knife, but I have a custom one being made. Looking forward to using it and seeing for myself how it goes.
Watch the video. Or watch it again.
Take a 1/4 inch thick steel blank; grind one to a Scandi edge and one to chisel and both to 30 degrees (inclusive). Now measure 1/4 in back from the edge and measure the thickness of the steel. I would bet they are both the same! So which has more material?? Which is stronger? You can sit at a table and draw this on a piece of paper with the same results. For some tasks a chisel (scraping) edge may be more efficient, but stronger, No.
I think the distinction between primary and secondary bevel is where the confusion is. If we start with two blanks then proceed with the grinds: Create a full flat grind with a primary grind thickness that is arbitrary. Make it any angle you please. On one blank, grind this primary bevel on both sides--full flat from Spine to edge. On the other blank, grind this same primary flat bevel on only one side. At this point, I think everyone will agree that if we took a caliper and measured the thickness at every point on the two blades, we would find that the thickness at each corresponding point on the chisel grind would be greater. Less material has been removed. Now apply a secondary bevel to the edges. Again, completely arbitrary. Whatever you please. Apply this bevel angle to each edge of the dual-ground blade. Now apply this same bevel angle to the single ground edge of the chisel grind. Take out the caliper again and measure the thickness of each point on the two blades. Again, the thickness would be greater on each corresponding point of the chisel grind. Less material has been removed. More material has been removed from the dual ground blade. Both sides of the blade have had material ground down. It cannot have a greater thickness/cross-section.
Not of the edge grind. And that is what does the cutting.
So you're saying the chisel is blunter and doesn't cut very well as a result of being "thick"?
I am not saying anything other than all things being equal, grinding only one side of a blank will produce a stronger edge for the same reason a thicker stock produces a stronger edge--more material is left to back the edge and tip. Again, it is all relative to the bevel angle applied and there are many considerations that go into a design. You could create a chisel that is thin enough that strength is not an overriding property and the emphasis is sharpness. I also don't think that strength is the main reason that the chisel grind is employed in all applications. But if one of your primary goals and consideration for use in applying a grind to a blank was strength, a chisel grind would be a good candidate. Sharpness is another property altogether that will depend on choice of angles and stock thickness. But one desirable property of the grind itself is strength and durability if you were to be headed in a direction that favors these attributes over others and wanted to grind out a blank with this in mind and were limited to a particular stock thickness.
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I designed this knife and Charlie Mike made it for me. It is a chisel grind on the right side. This knife was meant to be used and the chisel grind is there for a reason. I make a lot of canes and hiking staffs and shaving off the bark and roughing out the shape is
one of the reasons that I wanted this blade. It can also make a great EDC blade and I find it useful for many of chores. Chisel grinds go way back, but look at the history of bread knives for a clue as to why a chisel grind. It's really that simple.
one of the reasons that I wanted this blade. It can also make a great EDC blade and I find it useful for many of chores. Chisel grinds go way back, but look at the history of bread knives for a clue as to why a chisel grind. It's really that simple.
Would you mind specifying what a couple of those "numerous" errors are?
When you say, "most of them pertain to the specific context of the work being performed....." and "so much as they are simply adapted to different contextual situations...." ?? What are you talking about? I'm talking about practicallity and relative blade strength of the chisel grind, NOT VARIATIONS THEREOF, WITH LITTLE BEVELS THROWN IN HERE AND THERE OR ODD ANGLES OR OBTUSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
I'm talking strictly about the suitability of chisel grind for EDC and a couple other simple matters brought up in this thread. It's always possible to go off into the ozone about anything....which I think is happening here. I leave the "Pepperdyne philosophy class on the newly mown lawn" stuff to others. I'm speaking basically.
I'd appreciate you pointing out these "errors" in what I had written in my last post. Go paragraph by paragraph if you want. Thanks.
As I point out in my post.
Right, yielding a very sharp, but weak, edge which requires frequent stropping for maintenance---the big difference in the modern razor blades of which I speak. You don't strop your Gillette blades do you? They're stronger and stand up better to use. It's one of the reasons you don't see people using straight razors much anymore---something better came along.
Right---they cut better.
As to "cheaper to produce" being the reason for their existence, we'll have to disagree:
If a V-grind razor blade were better, they would be on the shelves....or at least the CHOICE would be there. Again, with the exorbitant markup and retail cost of razor blades already, what little extra cost would be incurred by grinding both sides would still see them on the shelves and they would have buyers.
Right. They cut better.
Thanks for helping me clear this up.
How can thicker stock create a stronger edge?
Yeah, exceptions to everything aren't there. OK...but....
My understanding is that most surgery scalpels are chisel ground. Am I wrong? How exactly have you determined that your V-ground scalpels are "sharper" than the chisel ground? What criteria did you use to declare the V-ground 'sharper' ?
Not disputing you, just curious.
If that is true why are most scalpels chisel ground? At least I think they are....
Can you provide documentation of this claim that chisel inflicts a nastier, more difficult wound to heal than V-grind? I'd like to know because I'm under the opposite impression...that chisel grind will make a technically 'cleaner' cut.
I know this is true of a triangular blade, such as the old outlawed bayonets of previous wars, but never heard this distinction between chisel and V in the medical realm.
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I designed this knife and Charlie Mike made it for me. It is a chisel grind on the right side. This knife was meant to be used and the chisel grind is there for a reason. I make a lot of canes and hiking staffs and shaving off the bark and roughing out the shape is
one of the reasons that I wanted this blade. It can also make a great EDC blade and I find it useful for many of chores. Chisel grinds go way back, but look at the history of bread knives for a clue as to why a chisel grind. It's really that simple.
I love seeing knives I make get use. Looks great.
