Would you mind specifying what a couple of those "numerous" errors are?
When you say, "most of them pertain to the specific context of the work being performed....." and "so much as they are simply adapted to different contextual situations...." ?? What are you talking about? I'm talking about practicallity and relative blade strength of the chisel grind, NOT VARIATIONS THEREOF, WITH LITTLE BEVELS THROWN IN HERE AND THERE OR ODD ANGLES OR OBTUSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
I'm talking strictly about the suitability of chisel grind for EDC and a couple other simple matters brought up in this thread. It's always possible to go off into the ozone about anything....which I think is happening here. I leave the "Pepperdyne philosophy class on the newly mown lawn" stuff to others. I'm speaking basically.
I'd appreciate you pointing out these "errors"
in what I had written in my last post. Go paragraph by paragraph if you want. Thanks.
Oki doki...didn't list 'em all out because I was short on time and long on points, and that's still the case, but since you asked outright, here we go:
There's a bit of crap and misguided speculation in this thread....
I'm not going to consider the opinion of anyone suffering OCD,
or any other mental illness, as fact. If you want a perfect V-edge on your knife and start to palpate and sweat if it's slightly off, power to you. Sharpen it to still your rapid heart, go about using it and read no further. Best of luck to ya.
As far as being a "sexier" edge......
c'mon.
Hard for me to relate "sexy" to a blade edge. Maybe to a blade, but not an edge...which does the actual cutting.
No objection here, as the statements are either subjective opinion or outright fact, without any conflating of the two.
If you guys think you don't own any chisel ground blades, look no further than your manual razors. The blades are chisel ground. They are the sharpest blades you own. Less expensive to manufacture you say? Have you checked the price of blades lately? Overpriced as Sebenzas. If V-ground were better for cutting they'd be on the market--it's not overly expensive to grind one more side if you're familiar with razor blade manufacturing machinery. There's a reason for chisel grind instead of V--they technically cut better, potentially sharpen better and hold an edge equally well in most instances.
In the razor blade industry, sharpness and longevity being the grail, if V-grind were stronger, sharper OR produced a more long-lasting edge, they would be produced and on the shelf. The razor industry will also tell you that the average man's beard is like shaving the equivalent of equal diameter COPPER WIRE. It's the base criteria they use for testing blades. Check it out. If the experts in sharpness choose chisel for such a task it's going to be fine with me.
Several issues here. The markup on razor blades is astronomical, much like with printer ink, cologne/perfume, and countless other things. Not all razor blades are chisel-ground, either. I habitually shave with a double-edged safety razor and those blades are ground equally on both sides. The blade is then flexed when the razor is closed, bringing the bevel flush with the face. Cartridge razors are just built differently to achieve the same angle of presentation to the target because they're not intended to be flipped between shaves like you do with a DE. It doesn't really have anything to do with chisel vs. double bevel so much as the mode in which the blades are affixed and held at the appropriate angle relative to the face.
As for BLADE strength: obviously given two equal blade blanks, one ground on only one side, the other ground away on two sides, the one ground the least is going to have greater strength; be a "stronger" blade (and resulting tip), having had less steel removed. This has been my experience over time in using both.
If one of them has less steel removed, then yeah, sure, it'll be stronger. It'll also be thicker and not cut as well as a result. If included edge angle and stock thickness are held as constant, there will be no difference in the amount of material removed, nor in edge strength.
As to EDGE, I see no reason a chisel ground edge would be any weaker than a V-ground edge. IMO, the opposite is true if anything. And if an edge does chip or roll, it's going to be recoverable a hell of a lot faster and easier on a chisel grind. Easier for field touch-ups too. Simpler.
How so? There's no difference in strength for equal edge angle and stock thickness, and because the amount of steel that needs to be removed to restore an edge remains the same, it will
not recover faster nor be inherently easier for field touch-ups. If anything, greater care is required when deburring to avoid forming any bevel on the flat face of the blade.
If you can't cut a straight line with a good chisel ground blade, or at least train yourself to in under 15 minutes, you need to go back to kiddie scissors. Personally I can cut equally well with V or chisel grind. But I can make more ACCURATE cuts with chisel. Cuts "cleaner" too with most materials, as they can be incredibly sharp just due to the nature of same, not having to sacrifice sharpness in favor of looking pretty or painstakingly achieving an equal angle on the other side for the visual proclivities of some.
It depends on the material being cut and the depth of that cut. A chisel grind will have significantly more deflection on one side of the blade, which will bias it towards turning towards the side nearest the flat. Yes, you can apply counter-torque to resist this, but it doesn't change the fact that the deflection forces during the cut are lopsided. This doesn't matter in shallow cuts or in soft materials that are able to readily deform with little force, but in stiffer materials when cutting deep it can become a significant annoyance. There's also a difference in the possible angle of approach to the target relative to the centerline of the blade stock. A symmetrical double-beveled knife with a 30° included angle (15° per side) will be able to approach a target at any angle greater than 15° on either side of the blade without glancing. A chisel ground blade of equal included edge angle (0° on one side, 30° on the other) would be able to approach the target at any angle greater than 0° on one side, but would have to approach the target at an angle greater than a whopping 30° on the other or else the shoulder will be contacting the target surface instead of the edge. This would be especially problematic on tools routinely used for chopping in both directions because while one side wouldn't ever glance, the other side would have a much higher risk of doing so. Additionally, when performing carving-style cutting tasks the relief formed behind the bevel is used to assist in breaking from the cut using the bevel shoulder as a fulcrum. The resistance experienced trying to break from the cut with the flat towards the body of the workpiece is tremendous to the point of making such cuts virtually unworkable in many cases because of the width of the "bevel" (the full width of the blade on that side.) This is the very thing that works to a chisel grind's advantage in paring and planing tasks, because the bevel is able to ride against the surface of the wood.
I've said in here often, as I'll say again, I've never understood those who state that a chisel edge is not good for EDC. I have many V-ground as well as chisel blades. I've never ONCE wished I had a V-ground blade instead of chisel while attempting any EDC task. If anything I find that chisel grind cuts a bit better, all things considered, both being sharpened to the max. In fact, now that I think about it, there have been times I wished I had a chisel ground blade with me INSTEAD of a V-ground when I need extreme sharpness, as when splitting leather boot lace or having to shave the sueded side of leather smooth in a tight area (where a chisel-ground Leatherman blade really shines).
That is because your particular contexts of use (the what/where/when/why/how and the frequency/intensity/time of your cutting tasks) is benefited by a chisel grind more than it's disadvantaged. This is not the case for all users, and you might ask yourself why the majority of general-use cutting tools allow for symmetrical use.
I don't obsess over chisel vs. V any more than I would obsess over steel or handle material. I buy a knife if I like it regardless of grind. However....to in any way lessen a chisel grind compared to another grind for use has never even crossed my mind. Chisel grind makes good, strong, sharp blades. In many cases cutting better than typical V-grinds.
...and in many cases double-beveled blades will perform better at a given task than a chisel grind. By the same token sometimes a rib saw is better than a crosscut saw, and sometimes a Phillips head screwdriver is better than a flat-head. Etc. etc. Different features yield different benefits, that better optimize the tool for different contexts of use.
I believe that for the most part, those who demean chisel grind, much like those who demean tanto blades for EDC, don't have a lot of experience with that type of edge and are just freaked because it's "different." If they were less than satisfactory, in the decades I have used knives in every environment, I'd have experienced it. The blade doesn't go off the road, in circles, or disjoint my wrist when I cut with it either. Poor babies out there who can't follow a straight line with an edge....sheesh.
While I'd agree that many or even most people that complain about chisel grinds are not very familiar with their behavior and application, I'd also argue that you're perhaps not very experienced with the circumstances in which such a grind can make the work more challenging.
One exception may be in the kitchen. I'm not a carrot-slicer so I wouldn't know. But then I see where many times a chisel grind is preferred on some of the better/prestige kitchen knives...maybe moreso even than in our little world of folders. Go figure....
That, again, has more to do with the specific context of use. There are situations where an asymmetric grind may be used to advantage, and others where it is a disadvantage. Asymmetric grinds are, therefore, used in contexts where their qualities are of the most benefit and the least detriment and/or are matched with another knife that compensates for disadvantages of the asymmetrically-ground knife in those circumstances when it's a nuisance.
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