Choil worries..bad design or for some reason?

[RX-79G]

So you can choke up on your grip for more control.

I don't see how you're getting that much more control than just having the regular grip end close to the edge:

 

[DPC]

I own these two and I can assure you that cutting an apple with the top one is not the same if you use the choil than if you dont.

As for smaller knives, up to 7 inches or so, and depending on weight and heft, I do agree that choils are more hinderance than help, thus why I own the bottom one and not a regular one with choil


Choils are good for bigger knives. It does make a difference.

 

[RX-79G]

Yeah, if the knife features 1/2" or more of ricasso or guard before you can get your index finger in there, I can see why that would be a problem. It's just that you don't need that big gap. I don't know what long ricassos are supposed to do, but they don't do much for the type of knives people use in the woods, as far as I can tell.

 

[LEGION 12]

I don't see how you're getting that much more control than just having the regular grip end close to the edge:

Well since none of those above have a choil I can see you confusion.

 

[marcinek]

I found out recently on an S!K 5.1 that the razor sharp edge just in front of the choil will bite you


Now you have heard of it again

True, albeit from you twice.

So not Scouts. Where did you get the "sissy grip" concept from? Maybe that is the source of the issues you are having.

It's interesting! It seems like most people dont have much of a problem with it.

 

[Czechmate]

Nah, the bolster free choil gives maximum control and freedom with different hand grip options.

its the "user" that makes a "safe" knife

This ^^^^



Or,. just knock down the corner of the heel of the blade a bit with a few strokes on a sharpening stone then it should be a non-issue.

That's what I do with my kitchen knives because my wife isn't very careful using them LOL. She cut herself with the bread knife a couple weeks back; first comment from her was "how sharp does it have to be?"... :foot::thumbup:

 

[Danke42]

The finger choil doesn't make a lot of sense to me, either. It weakens the blade compared to a finger slot in the ricasso and is more likely to cut you.

I guess it just comes down to whether whatever you're doing with the knife isn't going to work nearly as well if you index finger is 3/16" from the edge rather than right next to it. I personally haven't encountered that situation where I wish I could get that much closer to the edge. Maybe someone else can comment on why it is advantageous to them.





S!K is the common abbreviation for Survive! Knives.

Good to know. What video games are the in?

 

[Thomas Linton]

The knife in question is hardly designed for "fine" work. "Shortening up" by placing the first finger in the choil seems wholly unnecessary in a "chopper." One option is to carry a much smaller knife for fine work.

Respectfully, if you cut yourself using a tool, you need to at least rationally consider the issue of whether you are using the tool correctly. I have yet to cut myself in the way your describe despite using many knives with choils that could produce that result. Or, as you suggest, the community and makers are all wrong - possible but unlikely.

The Boy Scouts have not officially trained in use of a fixed-blade knife for years. That is strange given that BSA said in 2008 that a "short" fixed-blade knife was the ideal outdoors knife AND say today that BSA adults have a duty to teach safe use of all legally owned knives.

 

[Czechmate]

It's interesting! It seems like most people dont have much of a problem with it.

I've always liked the "choil for your choil" approach that Strider Knives employ:

Twice as safe; and, minimizes the amount of usable cutting edge... :foot:

 

[RX-79G]

Well since none of those above have a choil I can see you confusion.

Well, yeah. But why would you need a choil if your index finger is already up against the blade, like in those examples I posted?

A finger choil often seems like a fix for having a long ricasso so your regular hand position is too far away from the edge. I don't see the downside to having the regular grip close to the edge in the first place and just keeping it there.


And that isn't technically a choil, since it isn't into the edge but just on the ricasso.

 

[DPC]

Well, yeah. But why would you need a choil if your index finger is already up against the blade, like in those examples?

For bigger knives.

Choils make big unwieldy knives wieldy , and that's why that big Bark River has a big choil on top of the handle.

 

[LEGION 12]

Well, yeah. But why would you need a choil if your index finger is already up against the blade, like in those examples?

A finger choil often seems like a fix for having a long ricasso so your regular hand position is too far away from the edge. I don't see the downside to having the regular grip close to the edge in the first place and just keeping it there.

So when you are using it for fine work it lessons the chances of your finger slipping onto the edge .

 

[Morrow]

Good to know. What video games are the in?

Knock it off.

 

[sideways]

I don't like choils. They are uncomfortable to use.

IMHO choils only make some sense on knives where you want the control of a short blade but need to have the penetration of a longer knife. So basically some military or hunting designs.

Other than that they are pointless IMHO. I'd rather select a knife that is the right length for my needs, slap a comfortable handle onto it, and then depending on if it needs to handle thrusting force put a guard on it.

 

[craytab]

I have had my finger touch the edge on other knives ( near blade) and get cut a few times. One I can think of, cut me 2x in 1 day from normal use.

And what knives were they. What were you doing. How many times has it happened. We need more to go on to figure out what is going on that what you have given us. Pictures would help

I use the blade correctly.

Not if you are constantly cutting yourself. Could be the design is not for you but it doesn't mean the rest of the knife world has your problem.

I found out recently on an S!K 5.1 that the razor sharp edge just in front of the choil will bite you

I heard of that one too. In this thread.

I don't see how you're getting that much more control than just having the regular grip end close to the edge:

It might just be that you or I or legion or whomever don't use knives in the exact same way. Different strokes. Different opinions. Different usage styles. Difference is the spice of life.


I have probably close to 20 knives with some sort of finger choil. Sometimes I use them. Sometimes I don't. I've never cut myself. It comes down to knife design, personal abilities/preference, task, and a myriad of other things. There is no magic "finger choils are bad why isn't everyone cutting themselves like me" pill just like there is no reason to question why someone thinks they get more control when using a finger choil.

 

[GREENJACKET]

I think its a decent enough question to ask.
Buy a knife that works for you. Some designs are a bit iffy and may well not suit a particular hand size or technique. I'm not a fan of the vast majority of Woodlore, bushcraft, knives as I prefer there to be plenty of guard on anything that is going to do tough work.

There are lots of ways to have an edge and non are wrong on the right design. Lot of options out there and if a knife bites you for no good reason then get rid of it.

 

[Bobby3326]

The only knife I own with a choil is my gso 10...it's rather useful on a larger blade but I don't see a need for em on a 7" or less blade so I don't buy em. I have used em thou, but have never managed to cut myself multiple times.... (or even once)

I am curious thou how one manages to cut themselves multiple times, without reevaluating their technique.

 

[Marine E7]

So this is common.
Guess you missed that scout lesson also =P

 

[craytab]

Yeah, if the knife features 1/2" or more of ricasso or guard before you can get your index finger in there, I can see why that would be a problem. It's just that you don't need that big gap. I don't know what long ricassos are supposed to do, but they don't do much for the type of knives people use in the woods, as far as I can tell.

How do you know what other people like or need?

The knife in question is hardly designed for "fine" work.

The knife in question isn't even owned by the OP or much less cut his finger. It would be good to know what knives the OP keeps cutting himself on.

Well, yeah. But why would you need a choil if your index finger is already up against the blade, like in those examples I posted?

A finger choil often seems like a fix for having a long ricasso so your regular hand position is too far away from the edge. I don't see the downside to having the regular grip close to the edge in the first place and just keeping it there.


And that isn't technically a choil, since it isn't into the edge but just on the ricasso.

Well that is just fine for you but other people might like something else. It is opinion dude. Not really a debatable fact.

 

[LEGION 12]

That's why Spyderco PM 2 has a reverse choil with jimmping added so when you choke up on the knife for more control of the tip for finer work.