Choosing Fixed Survival Knife.

[22-rimfire]

Since I like machetes and big knives, it dawned on my the the Condor Kumunga (12") might well be something to consider for a survival knife. Pretty inexpensive too. It certainly is at the edge of carrying comfort on the belt, but pretty much carries as easily as the BK-7. Better chopper in my opinion as well. I have one of these that I often use around the house, but would be fairly comfortable carrying it in the woods in its most excellent leather belt sheath. I have a BK-7 also.

It would be an "effort" to use it for detailed tasks, but it could be done. Plus, in my case, I will always have a folder with me anyway for the detailed stuff.

 

[buckfynn]

I've been looking at the TOPS Black Rhino
Esee 6
Ontario Rat 7
Tom Brown Tracker Knife

My experience with Ontario and TOPS has been excellent.

My Ontario RAT 7 has served me well. Have you considered the RAK. It is another solid knife made by Ontario.

I own several TOPS knives and have never had a problem. I don't own a Tracker or the Black Rhino so I can't sat anything about them except that they are not my style. I have several TOPS knives including: BOB's, Brakimo, Dragonfly, Pasayten Light Traveler, and several others.

At one time I was an ESEE fan. Due to my experience with them here and here, I no longer am. After owning 15 various ESEE knives, I come to the realization: 1) The quality of ESEE knives is not always all that great. 2) The ESEE "No Questions Asked warranty" isn't worth the paper it is written on. Considering ESEE failed to stand behind their warranty, I no longer trust them or recommend them.

 

[cuchulain77]

Great options you have to choose from.

Esee 6 is just awesome. Can't go wrong there.
I have the Esee 5 myself but I guess the 6 is more versatile.
I opted for the TKC handles to make it even more comfortable.

This knife makes me smile every time I handle it

I was tossed up between the ESEE 4/5 or the Bark River Bravo 1. I really like the Bark River, but at 9 1/2 inches an ESEE 6 would compliment it really well. It's an awesome knife. For me, especially with fixed blades you don't really necessarily get more by paying more, $80 - $150 and you can get just about a perfect fixed blade.

 

[hexenjager]

For wood processing then I agree a flat or scandi grind are superior to hollow ground.
Pointy tips are more than able to process game, just have to be more careful. Good for bleeding out. In truth to dress out game doesn't require much knife, nearly anything can work but just might not make a very neat job of it.
Stainless or Carbon steel, whatever you fancy as both can be done well, not all are though. Blades that break are annoying and has little to do with how thick or what steel. Everything to do with how well heat treated. Heat treated brittle or heat treated too soft. All in the reputation and what luck built into that steel blade.
Most handle materials can be made to last the life of the blade, well very nearly. Stacked leather is an excellent material. Far too many whatever the material are too slippery but look nice.
Stick or full tang, both can be done to work well enough. Depends how its done. Both fail just as easily when done badly.

I actually think the best survival knife is the one you have used for a few years. One you are familiar with and used long enough to have real confidence in. A new knife is a gamble because until you have used it you won't know how much luck it has built into it.
There are some models that have stood the test of time, quite a few mentioned above. I'm not such a fan of the big names like SOG, Ontario, the usual mainstream brands. Do like Essee, Fallkniven, Survive knives, Bark River. Personal choice, go for the reputation from reading reviews and then take them with a pinch of salt. Most reviews rave, which isn't so helpful. Price is no reflection. Your call, have to jump at something and hope the knife has that luck.

Actually, I really don't disagree with much of anything that you've posted here. I usually find myself agreeing (at least for the most part) with what you post when it's on a subject I have some experience with and so I also tend to give added weight to you opinions about things I may have less experience with. One differing point of view regarding pointy tips for game processing is mostly it and that likely comes from differing life experiences. As you noted, you need to be more careful with a very pointy tip, and that's fine under normal circumstances. The problem I see is when you're cold. As a rancher I work outdoors and that often means being out in less than pleasant weather. I've been cold to the point that I could no longer use a screwdriver with what could even be described as adequacy, let alone proficiency, and far, far more of my time is spent repairing machines than hunting unfortunately.

Unless you've been that cold, it's really tough to imagine the kind of effects it can have on motor skills. Also keep in mind that I could have gone and warmed up and changed into dry clothes at any time, so there was no danger or fear involved. It was simply more advantageous at the time to just push through for whatever reason. My experiences make me far less than confident that I'd even be capable of "being more careful" in a real survival situation, so I avoid extremely fine, pointy tips partially for that reason. And the super bowie tip is an extremely fine point. Probably the most needle like of any knife I own. We all have our own experiences and those shape our views on this sort of thing.

I probably got a bit out of hand in my breakdown of some of my perceived problems with the super bowie as a survival knife, and I apologize for that. That said, in the year or so I've been a member of this forum (and before that when I just read and lurked), I've repeatedly seen Gaston express opinions that few if any other members can understand how on earth he arrived at as though they were proven, unassailable facts. That can be very confusing to someone who is newer to knives and looking for information to make the best choices for their needs.

I've seen bs called on him by forum mods, super mods, long time knife makers and just the forum at large. It was just my turn since I've had the particular knife in question for years. His suggestion that the stick tang makes it blade heavy makes me EXTREMELY doubtful that he's ever actually laid his hands on one because it's immediately apparent that that isn't the case when you do. I don't have a problem with suggestions that you don't have any experience with in a thread like this as long as you say that's the case. Something along the lines of "I don't have one, but the specs look just right. Maybe someone with experience with it could tell us more because it seems like it would be great." That isn't how he presents it though.

It's possible that I'm wrong, but personally I believe that he makes an intentional effort to misinform and troll people who are less experienced with the various aspects of knives for his own amusement and I have very little tolerance for that when someone is looking for a tool they could potentially bet their life on. Could the super bowie be used successfully as a survival knife? It could. Do I feel strongly that there are there far better choices for $200? Absolutely. There's been a lot of them in this thread, including several offered by yourself.

 

[22-rimfire]

I have both the SOG Tech I and Tech II bowies as well as the massive Tigershark in a couple of its variations. Those are from my SOG days and I don't really look at them much anymore. They would work for a survival knife in my opinion. The stick tang (or reduced tang) is something I deal with on occasion because I like Blackjack classic knives. I would simply not abuse them and they should be just fine. Of the current models, the NW Ranger would make an okay woods knife at less than 6". I have one of the old ones with the partial blade serrations. I believe it was the very first SOG knife I purchased.

 

[GREENJACKET]

hexenjager, I've dug a few snow holes in my time. I've gralloched a few beast on the hill in appalling conditions. I've used all sorts to get the job done.
The JP Peltanen Sissipuukko's aren't half bad in the cold and make a good pointy survival knife.

22-rimfire, you are showing your age with the Tigershark. I remember them, not half bad, in fashion once upon a time. I too liked Blackjack and Al Mar in those days. In truth they weren't indestructible as both makers tended to heat treat a bit too hard for their own good. I've broken examples from both makers. Batoning wasn't in vogue then though, but if there is a way to break something I usually find a way. Some knives do survive me, the ones with some luck built in. Never know what its going to be though.
A few I've picked up over the years. Some better than others. My taste has changed since my combat/utility days. Again I like my small GSO.

For budget, no bull, then the Terava range from Varusteleka are all very good in the cold and just to use. Something useful until the "utilmate" is found. I'm a huge Skrama fan having discovered it a year ago.

 

[19-3ben]

Gaston- I really have to disagree with pretty much everything you have said. I think it's sort of misleading and unfair. First off, carbon steel blades don't wear excessively. People have carbon steel kitchen knives, which get used and sharpened more than any other knife in the house, that are decades old and going strong. Id bet there are people on this very forum using carbon steel kitchen knives that are over 100 yrs old that have plenty of blade left. I can't possibly see how you can make the blanket statement that they wear excessively quickly.

I also don't see the whole "becker blades are warped" thing. Sorry, but no. There are a couple of examples of a BK5 being warped... out of, oh.. ya know... bazillions. Becker knives wouldn't be as popular as they are if this were a persistent issue of any kind. I can tell you that of the six Becker knives I own, every one of 'em is true and straight as an arrow.

The only area where I sort of agree is with the advantages of stainless steel in an outdoors/survival knife. Even then, it's a matter of timing. Lets face it, if you are in a true "life/death survival situation" for more than a few hours or at worst, a full day, that's gotta be as rare as possible. In a few hours or even a day, any rust issues that would pop up due to inability to maintain, are pretty much meaningless. What's gonna happen? Light freckling? think that some light freckling or staining on your blade will be the thing that determines if you live or die? I mean... c'mon. really?

 

[hexenjager]

Greenjacket, I've read about and looked pretty hard at the sissipuuko and it does indeed look like a heck of a knife. I came very close to ordering one until I found out that they'd made some changes to it and I wasn't really able to find much about the new model, so I decided to wait until I could find more user feedback on it or find the original version for sale. It is definitely on the list of blades I need to acquire in the future, as is the skrama.

 

[pinnah]

I think it makes more sense to talk about knives for backpacking, knives for car camping, knives for hunting and such like that. I don't know of anybody that goes survivalling.

I'm also pretty skeptical about bushcrafting, as a sport. Nice skills to practice in a place that can sustain the harvest of trees (as in, ones own yard) but as a way of moving about on public lands, it's super destructive.

In any event, the more the OP can describe that tasks he's doing where things might go unexpectedly, the better advice he'll get.

 

[Gaston444]

it's going to be a series of compromises. Giving up some performance at this task to add some in another area. Unsexy as it sounds, a survival knife is the all wheel drive minivan of the knife world. Not REALLY good at anything, but good enough at most things to get by and reliable enough to keep putting along.

At minimum I feel it should provide chopping: Because of this I feel blades under 10" are inefficient, but I suggested the Super Bowie because I know some of the smaller knives can be surprisingly efficient with high weight and a hollow grind. I was trying to stay within the OP's length preference...

As for the super bowie, unlike you I am not a fan of hollow grinds when it comes to wood processing and especially bushcraft jobs (shelter and fire probably the main bread and butter of the broad survival knife concept). Have I used some hollow grinds fooling around and turning large sticks into small sticks? Sure. A few. I didn't like them as well as a flat ground blade (full flat or saber) with a convex edge overall for all the tasks involved. Personal preference..

Hollow grinds offer better edge protection against accidental side loads: This requires much less care when "unsticking" the edge while chopping. Much of the worst apex damage I observed occurs on retrieval, NOT ALWAYS, or even usually, on the way in... Something very few "experts" seem to be aware of, which makes me wonder just how much we should listen to them...

I don't understand why turning big sticks into small sticks is such a requirement that it should have any effect on the design of a knife... In fact, I have been interested in this for 30 years, and I defy anyone to show me an article detailing this task as something that should influence Survival Knife design prior to 1995...

Furthermore, unless the edge is kept at an extremely blunt angle, such as 20 degrees per side and over, the edge beaten parallel to the grain will inevitably suffer micro-folds because the grain is not dead straight... Edges opened to 20 degrees per side perform so poorly they make many small effort tasks into dangerous major effort tasks, especially simple things like cutting rope fibers and meat, reducing the utility of the knife... Losing 5 degrees per side easily reduces the effort by half... But then, they will micro-fold when batoning... Batoning or actual cutting/chopping? My choice is clear...

Secondly, I haven't found aus8 to be the end all of steels as you have (though I thought in the past, your best steel in existence was 440b).

Japanese-made Aus-8 and 440 knives are very reliable, and in fact hard to surpass... Where the knife is made is what matters. I'll concede Taiwan is not promising, which is why I so far I never got one...

My (completely imaginary like nearly everyone) potential survival situations don't call for much stabbing of people, so a different tip design is preferred. It'll still be stabby enough on the unbelievably remote chance that it matters at some point.

I don't defend the tip: I prefer spear-points (in theory).

As for the stick tang making it more weight forward, it also has a very large steel pommel to balance it out. The balance point is on the leather handle around halfway between the guard and the white washer. In other words, it's slightly handle heavy. Serious question: do you actually own a SOG super bowie or are you just reading the specs off of a website?

I owned the SOG Tech II which is a quite similar knife but lighter: Again the overall weight will help, but I understood about the buttcap being steel. The hollow grind I knew would be a huge plus. Again, I was trying to comply with the OP's low price: Not my first choice, but the best "small" I could think of, and I do know from a reviewer it could make deep single hit bites that were quite eloquent to see...

Speaking of the leather handle, I don't understand the logic of recommending stainless for low maintenance yet still suggesting a stacked leather handle that will require more maintenance than something like micarta. Don't get me wrong, I love me some stacked leather and many of my very favorite knives in my collection have it, but it needs maintenance, especially in the types of locations where stainless presents a great advantage over high carbon or tool steels due to high moisture.

Until you see a rotten handle, this is more theoretical than real, especially with a stainless tang...

The one point I agree with is the "fighting point" robs tip mass for chopping, but it can add versatility in other things.... It's not a deal breaker to me, but I do agree it doesn't belong on a dedicated "Survival Knife"...

Gaston

 

[KBA]

Having a SAK Huntsman or Fieldmaster as well the fixed couldn't hurt.

 

[Gaston444]

Gaston- I really have to disagree with pretty much everything you have said. I think it's sort of misleading and unfair. First off, carbon steel blades don't wear excessively. People have carbon steel kitchen knives, which get used and sharpened more than any other knife in the house, that are decades old and going strong. Id bet there are people on this very forum using carbon steel kitchen knives that are over 100 yrs old that have plenty of blade left. I can't possibly see how you can make the blanket statement that they wear excessively quickly.

Bernard Levine said over 30 years ago that he examined tens of thousands of knives, and stainless steels were superior to carbon in every aspect of performance. Nothing has changed since, except that diamond hones have nullified even the sharpening ease advantage...

I also don't see the whole "becker blades are warped" thing. Sorry, but no. There are a couple of examples of a BK5 being warped... out of, oh.. ya know... bazillions. Becker knives wouldn't be as popular as they are if this were a persistent issue of any kind. I can tell you that of the six Becker knives I own, every one of 'em is true and straight as an arrow..

Maybe so, but it is common enough to have had more than one thread on this subject alone... Also the warping involves the handle, so looking at the blade alone is not enough. Plus a huge number of people can't see this sort of thing... Europeans who paid top dollars to import BK-20s were pretty shocked by what passes for "workmanship" at BK... Ontario is cheaper and does not have these issues.

Gaston

 

[22-rimfire]

I think it makes more sense to talk about knives for backpacking, knives for car camping, knives for hunting and such like that. I don't know of anybody that goes survivalling.

I'm also pretty skeptical about bushcrafting, as a sport. Nice skills to practice in a place that can sustain the harvest of trees (as in, ones own yard) but as a way of moving about on public lands, it's super destructive.

Yes, we need to respect the public lands and leave as little trace as possible. If you build wood fires, build them where others have built them. Maybe bury your ashes. (Actually a good thing for the forest.) I think the camping knife or the hiking knife are pretty much survival knives. With camping, it depends on the kind of camping you do. Not much need for a really big knife camping at the State Park campground. (A saw works better generally.) But on the other hand, that is just the kind of camping that you can bring along all kinds of useless redundant stuff just for the fun of it and play with it there.

 

[GREENJACKET]

hexenjager, the old M95 is the one I have a couple of. I do like them and they are pretty handy. Not sure of the steel but the non coated parts can tarnish fast, so its a carbon. They are quite soft so don't hold their edge all that long and given some tip heavy prying can bend though mine haven't taken and returned true. A dependable blade thats unlikely to fail. They shouldn't be expensive and should be no more than $80 or so. l'd be happy to carry one.
The new version is more like and made the same way as the Terava Sisspuukkos; same factory. A tad longer too. I have a Terava 140 and like the steel as its the same as my Skrama, and like the style/grind too for working wood. Think the new M95 Ranger version might be at least if not even better for the changes. Its not an expensive knife.

Pinnah, I'm with you on keeping public places, however vast, damage free. Lots of people are heavy footed even when trying not to be. Doesn't take many to trash a place.

Carbon steel or stainless wear just as fast. It all depends how they are sharpened. Some people sharpen by taking loads of steel off, others much less. Use any edge with loads of force against something hard and the edge will deteriorate. Blades take damage, sharpen when necessary. Never had a knife yet thats worn out. Had plenty break.
Carbon does rust but its not a big issue. Stainless tend to be more difficult to sharpen and edge don't stay as long. There are exceptions to both. I have some knives of each.

Most knives are rubbish at chopping. I prefer they just cut well. For the woods I'm liking Skandi grinds, though most of mine have a micro bevel. My edges are work edges, so happy when keen and cut. A DMT diamond edge in the field, and full sharpening kit and strop when home. Most is what life expectancy I expect to get from the edge for the work the knife is going to do. I probably sharpen too often. Strop, light pass over a ceramic as often as possible; I just like scary sharp.

KBA, I've carried a SAK Huntsman since I was 8 years old. Have one in my washbag always.

I find a lot of people set in their ways. I was taught by Lofty Wiseman. Not everything he said I agreed with, though not a lot wrong with most either. Same goes for Ray Mears who lives down the road from me. Bernard Levine has his own ideas. There is room for all of us, all depends on what works for you.
There all kinds of sport, but other job related knife user too. Farmer, Firefighter, different tools for different jobs. Work tools are to some their survival tool; its the one you have on you.
There is a hobby in its own right just playing with knives. I am sure I do it, and its fun.

One recent thing that has returned is there are some poor knives being offered. Thought we were getting away from that, but no. Respectable brands offering more hype over function. Poor quality with all the look and just rubbish. Hate that as its a rip off even if inexpensive.
I also think some high prices aren't really justified. But thats salesmanship and marketing. Hey Ho its all fun.

 

[ocnLogan]

...

Maybe so, but it is common enough to have had more than one thread on this subject alone... Also the warping involves the handle, so looking at the blade alone is not enough. Plus a huge number of people can't see this sort of thing... Europeans who paid top dollars to import BK-20s were pretty shocked by what passes for "workmanship" at BK... Ontario is cheaper and does not have these issues.

Gaston

I'll ask again, as maybe you missed it earlier in the thread, or the other threads I asked.

Were the Becker knives you say were "heat warped" the older roll stamped models? If so, that should no longer be a concern. Kabar changed from roll stamping the makers mark, to laser engraving it, exactly to remedy that issue.

To the others, I agree that it makes sense to think about the tasks you're doing and choose something that fits those. Myself, I guess I don't really think about any of my knives as "survival" knives. I do have my backpacking knife, general outdoors knife, camp/fire prep knife and other knives though.

 

[GB940Rookie]

Just get the 6.........and a GB1

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[Pointshoot777]

Most guys who ask the OP's question just want to own a Big Azz Knife. And that is perfectly fine. We would need more information about how this tool might be used to provide an answer. - - A retired U.S. Air Force Survival Instructor (who instructed me) liked Mora knives for cutting tasks, a small saw, and maybe a small hatchet for use in the field.


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[GREENJACKET]

One should expect blades and their grinds, with modern manufacturing techniques, to be straight and even. The more you pay then the more they should be, but even then perfect isn't absolutely necessary just nice to have. I've used some pretty wonky old stuff and most works fine.

It really can't be emphasised enough that having a sharpener is pretty important. Finding a flat stone in the bush isn't that easy, and most really don't give a very good edge. Some of the modern steels it nigh impossible to maintain from local ebrasive materials. The best take an age to get flat and work. Anyhow, when are you going to have the time to search for a half decent stone? Much better to take a manufactured one. Gone are the days when sheaths had a hard Arkansas stone in a pouch for the use of. A DMT Diafold diamond, a Ceramic Rod, or even a hard Arkansas Stone, are really worth investing in and carrying.
It doesn't matter how great that blades steel is but for survival in the bush that blade is going to blunt fast. Things like turf cutting, fire pit scratching, batoning, and general muck is going to take the edge off. That super sharp blade isn't going to last long, so pair it with something to put it back on.

Military Survival Courses are designed around water, fire, shelter, food and escape and evasion. More a confidence building thing. Military personnel like pilots are expensive so anything to keep them in one piece is a good investment. For such courses then a knife, a saw and a chopper of some kind makes life easier. Issue kit varies from very good to some really questionable committee decided equipment. The reason why people chose their own. Often they choose something better having done the course, only never to be needed again!

The fabulous Mora. Great inexpensive bushcraft knife, but all the less expensive ones aren't in my opinion built robust enough. Isn't my choice for a Survival knife.

A lot of Big Azz knives are sold. Few I would be willing to carry, few I've found very useful over alternative tools. Most are pretty bad at everything. Think everyone has to have at least one to find out how bad they are.

 

[pinnah]

Yes, we need to respect the public lands and leave as little trace as possible. If you build wood fires, build them where others have built them. Maybe bury your ashes. (Actually a good thing for the forest.) I think the camping knife or the hiking knife are pretty much survival knives. With camping, it depends on the kind of camping you do. Not much need for a really big knife camping at the State Park campground. (A saw works better generally.) But on the other hand, that is just the kind of camping that you can bring along all kinds of useless redundant stuff just for the fun of it and play with it there.

22RF, yes, this is where my thinking has evolved to. I'm not bashing harvest based camping if it can be done in a place where it is sustainable and allowed.

The real point is to recognize that we're talking about a form of recreation, not "surviving" per se. Fun is actually the point here. Better to identify what sorts fun we're talking about and to set aside all the survival theatrics. If the topic is to stay a alive in the woods, basics of climbing/backpacking methodologies are the right place to start, not knifecraft.

 

[Pointshoot777]

We live in The Land of Marketing. We live in a time when we need to spend so many hours of our lives working to pay for the stuff marketed to us, that we have little time to build knowledge and skills. So often we try to substitute with more stuff that has been marketed to us, instead. - - Look at the kit used by mountain men, scouts, explorers, etc in America from the early to mid 1800s. Look at the rudimentary tools available then to American Indians. They are much lighter and more minimalist (and far cheaper) than what is called 'survival gear' today. No one with any knowledge would argue that those people weren't highly skilled back then.


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