Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

[Thomas W]

...for me personally its the fact that two very differnt knives with different steels failed at vitrually the same point. There are too mnay factors here to simply be coincidence.

Personally speaking then, it's good you have a ton of other choices to look at.

If a destruction video is the end game for you, and that wipes away a couple of decorated decades of satisfied CRK's customers and a ton of hard work that assisted in expanding this industry, then all I can say is that you're a one tough customer.

I'm also noticing that you seem to be negatively lumping CRK's as a manufacturer (along with all of his offerings) with all of this, IMO this is way off base. If I am translating your posts incorrectly I apologize in advance.

 

[STAGE 2]

Are you so threatened by a dissenting opinion that you have to make foolish and personal assumptions about those who dare to offer them?

No. I'm just a little surprised at the attitude of some people here. Again its the height of arrogance to proclaim that something is irrelevant for everyone because it is irrelevant for you.

It goes without saying that some people aren't going to care about what Noss does. Thats perfectly fine. However some people clearly do care and that doesn't make them stupid or ridiculous or anything of the kind.

Thats why I find so much irony in your statement. Its the folks that don't like what Noss is doing that are riding the ad hominem train. Its the folks that don't like Noss that are distorting what he does. Its only the CRK supporters that are making this big of a stink.

So it seems the appropriate question is why are these people so threatened by what Noss does. No one is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to post here, so they much have some motivation....




...and I notice you didn't answer my question. Ever baton through wood?

 

[Karda]

What clearly shouldnt be happening is the trashing of ALL CRK's knives because a miniscule amount tested failed. Noss4 made a post saying "if you want a tough knife dont buy CRK" and that his "tests" are represent good testing when they are only entertainment.....which is wrong and his "lackeys" repeat him all the way., and you guys got the response that Noss4's video's are idiocity and Some makers use hype and so does Noss4.... Who is more right?Am i the only one that sees the Hypocrisy here?

 

[Phil Elmore]

No. I'm just a little surprised at the attitude of some people here. Again its the height of arrogance to proclaim that something is irrelevant for everyone because it is irrelevant for you.

Is it also the height of arrogance to proclaim that something is relevant for everyone because it is relevant for you?

...and I notice you didn't answer my question.

Your question is an intellectually dishonest attempt to make this about me rather than about the topic actually being discussed. I don't care what you assume; you're free to make your own mistakes. It's just painfully obvious that if you have to react that way to a dissenting opinion, you can't truly defend your assertions.

What clearly shouldnt be happening is the trashing of ALL CRK's knives because a miniscule amount tested failed. Noss4 made a post saying "if you want a tough knife dont buy CRK" and that his "tests" are represent good testing when they are only entertainment.....which is wrong and his "lackeys" repeat him all the way., and you guys got the response that Noss4's video's are idiocity and Some makers use hype and so does Noss4.... Who is more right?Am i the only one that sees the Hypocrisy here?

You're not the only one, no. I agree.

 

[nozh2002]

Perhaps the language barrier is giving us difficulty. I will reiterate: I find this "Noss" person's destructive "testing" stupid and pointless because it does NOT accurately represent the practical uses of the knives involved. While people may find these "tests" entertaining (and I'm sure they are), some of those people also consider these "tests" informative (but I don't believe they truly are), and thus I consider these videos stupid and pointless. Plenty of things that are both can also be entertaining. If the subject is whether we should be entertained by them, I offer no argument. If the question is whether we should consider them informative, I'm saying quite plainly that I do not.

You may insist that these videos constitute "evidence" of something. They do not.

I didn't find it particularly informative when Cliff Stamp engaged in the same abuse of knives.

I am wondering what is you definition of practical use? The test CR fails is very practical situation. It is far from entertainment bussiness., it is pratcical use on any language.

We are not talking about apple peeling knife - it is survival knife which fail to batoon wood. So how do you see survival situations? It is not only collecting item name - it suppose to be survival tool.

I see you kind of carefully create some fictional image of Noss4 just smashing well respectable knives just for fun. This is not a case at all. He has testing procedure and follow this procedure step by step for number of knives and CR fain on batooning wood step, while some other don't.

So this is not fiction in someones mind or Hollywood movie - real life test openly conducted and taped on video as for number of other knives etc.

I am wondering did you saw those tests yourself? Because again we may talk about different thing here - you have your fictional mad knife smasher in mind and I am talking about Noss4 who do really valuable, real life testing, pushing knives to the limits to se what we may expect from this or that model and manufacturers.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Phil Elmore]

You're free to believe whatever fictions about this "Noss" preson you wish to believe; I can't stop you.

 

[watchcollector1968]

nozh...I suppose I could video tape my knife work. Of course it would be a few hours long filmed over different days of working outside. I use the knives for stuff I could use a hatchet for just because it is fun to do...and trust me, its a lot more fun to do it than watch it. I also dont tote a video camera around with me when I want to do work outside. However your mind is made up, and what good would it serve for me to film it? When I baton my CRK, it is with wood through wood. I dont bust up concrete, I dont attempt to cut pipe or anything else with my knife and I dont smack them with sledge hammers.

As for other knives you refer to that "passed"...good for them, I hope people who own them get many years of good use out of them just like many of us can expect or have already gotten many good years of use from CRK.

 

[hardheart]

I would like to see a CRK without serrations tested. If it doesn't fail as soon, then perhaps we can all gang up on the true evil - serrations.

 

[STAGE 2]

Personally speaking then, it's good you have a ton of other choices to look at.

I do. The money that was going to go for a shadow is now going towards a RAT with the rest back in the bank.

If a destruction video is the end game for you, and that wipes away a couple of decorated decades of satisfied CRK's customers and a ton of hard work that assisted in expanding this industry, then all I can say is that you're a one tough customer.

I dont know about tough. Definately frugal. I don't think its out of line to expect twice the performance if I'm paying twice as much. Hell, even equal performance would have been fine for me. They didn't even get that far. So then what justifies the hefty price tag that Reeve knives are known for.

And as I said before, a large portion of knife owners don't use their knives period. Of those that do, I'm fairly certian that they don't ever get anywhere near the levels of use that these tests would be relevant. So they wouldn't have any complaints.

The guy who drives his corvette at 65 all the time isn't going to notice any difference than the guy who drives the honda civic at 65. The difference in price is because the guy in the vette could take his car much faster if he wanted to. If he did and it turned out that the car didn't perform as advertised he'd be pissed because what he paid so much more for isn't there. Thats what happened here.

I'm also noticing that you seem to be negatively lumping CRK's as a manufacturer (along with all of his offerings) with all of this, IMO this is way off base. If I am translating your posts incorrectly I apologize in advance.

Not really. I've heard nothing but good about their folders (except for gripes about price). So as far as that goes I've got no problems. I just think that if you are going to use the marketing they do (i.e. using the military as a selling point and all the other things we discussed) and charge a very steep price, then they should perform at least as well as knives that don't make such claims or cost half as much.

At the very least I think some tweaking of their advertising is in order at this point.

 

[azranger]

I resent the aura of infallibility that grows up around this sort of slamming that can impact the reputation of whichever company someone wants to go after.

It has no measurable effect on CRK's bottom line but it does deprive impressionable newbies of choices. That's not Bladeforum's policy. We get to fight it out here. Telling me to ignore what I personally don't like is telling me to abandon the battlefield to an incompetent enemy. Why don't you tell him to stop posting videos that people don't agree with?

Esav,
Wait just a minute! I cant believe you just said that! You certainly dont have to agree with Noss, but he has the same right to post what he wants as ANYONE ELSE! I thought this was still a free country!! Freedom of speech and all that! Very disappointing!

 

[STAGE 2]

Is it also the height of arrogance to proclaim that something is relevant for everyone because it is relevant for you?

Absolutely. Of course if you have read this thread you will have seen that I have said multiple times that what Noss does isn't going to be applicable to everyone and not everyone is going to place value in them.

Your question is an intellectually dishonest attempt to make this about me rather than about the topic actually being discussed. I don't care what you assume; you're free to make your own mistakes. It's just painfully obvious that if you have to react that way to a dissenting opinion, you can't truly defend your assertions.

Its not intellectually dishonest at all. Your first post was a blatant mischaracterization of what he does. As such its valid to ask you the question I did. The same for your second statement.

As far as my assertions, I've really only made one. Namely that these tests are of value to a great many people. You clearly aren't one of them but that really doesn't have any effect on this statement.

And again it makes me wonder if you and the others who don't like what Noss does why do you bother to post in these threads. It seems that you folks are the ones who are trying to suppress opinion since there isn't a Noss thread without the usual suspects chiming in about how what he does is ridiculous and stupid and a blemish on the knife community.

 

[Phil Elmore]

You've said there will be people who don't place value in these "tests." I'm one of those people. Attacking me and those others who disagree doesn't change that fact. You can't have it both ways.

 

[STAGE 2]

Noss4 made a post saying "if you want a tough knife dont buy CRK" and that his "tests" are represent good testing when they are only entertainment.....which is wrong and his "lackeys" repeat him all the way., and you guys got the response that Noss4's video's are idiocity and Some makers use hype and so does Noss4.... Who is more right?Am i the only one that sees the Hypocrisy here?

Have I earned the title of lackey?

If so, then your statement doesn't ring true. I haven't endorsed his conclusions about CRK knives, merely his results. Tough is completely relative. Its always measured in relation to something else. Whether CRK knives are crap is purely a matter of personal opinion. Whether they are as tough as other knives is now a matter of documentary evidence. Clearly they are not as tough as other knives with more common steels and much cheaper price tags.

So no hypocrisy here.

 

[STAGE 2]

You've said there will be people who don't place value in these "tests." I'm one of those people. Attacking me and those others who disagree doesn't change that fact. You can't have it both ways.

Its not having it both ways. You are stating that these tests are of no value to anyone. I'm saying these tests are of no value to some. See the difference.

 

[Reeek]

I'd be curious to see how an advertised "Survival" knife would hold up to some abuse that may be encountered in a survival situation (outdoor versus SHTF) but I just don't see the likelihood of having a 3 pound steel sledge hammer available in a survival situation. Furthermore, I suspect that a survival situation would require gentler and slower progress in the application of a survival technique or usage where a knife is used rather than cutting through a 4 inch tree trunk in 1 minute using a 3 pound sledge as a baton. In that CRK video from Noss I would thnk cutting through thart 2x4 would be better served for demonstrative purpose if he chopped through it or batoned with a stick. In fact, I'd "rather" see how the knife held up under hard chopping instead of batoning with a 3 pound sledge.

But I suppose if there is a last knife standing after beating them with a 3 pound sledge hammer that would mean something to someone however, I would like to see several of the same knives get pounded that way to see how the ratio turns out in the end such as X out of 10 did not break.

Overall though, it seems unreal to rate these knives using techniques that would most likely not be found in a survival situation.

 

[nozh2002]

You're free to believe whatever fictions about this "Noss" preson you wish to believe; I can't stop you.

You again twisting words. Are you professional? Because I see how you do this little manipulation drugging discussion away from subject and focus on things which does not matter.

Any way I do not really want to play this word games, all those business of creation fictional images and substituting real one with them kind of not my thing.

Again practical use - batooning wood is CR knife limit - they can not stand this real life survival task. This is not fiction, this is real documented fact and it is hard to dismiss it with word, however I see some are really good in this kind of things.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[hardheart]

In that CRK video from Noss I would thnk cutting through thart 2x4 would be better served for demonstrative purpose if he chopped through it or batoned with a stick. In fact, I'd "rather" see how the knife held up under hard chopping instead of batoning with a 3 pound sledge.

Noss chops and uses a wooden baton before using the hammer.

 

[Karda]

Noss4 made a post saying "if you want a tough knife dont buy CRK" and that his "tests" are represent good testing when they are only entertainment.....which is wrong and his "lackeys" repeat him all the way., and you guys got the response that Noss4's video's are idiocity and Some makers use hype and so does Noss4.... Who is more right?Am i the only one that sees the Hypocrisy here?

If i keep browbeating you will it make it true then? Just cuz you say theres no hypocrisy doesnt make it so. Hiding behind opinion doesnt make it right. I can post that statement all damn night like you and Nozh have, maybe if you stop trying so hard to press issues and give bad press to people maybe then you'd realize how baseless the tests are and how they can affect good knifemakers.
It's one thing to have a right to free speech and another to impinge on someone making a living.

 

[STAGE 2]

Hiding behind opinion doesnt make it right.

A video isn't opinion. These two knives broke while being hammered into wood.

I can post that statement all damn night like you and Nozh have, maybe if you stop trying so hard to press issues and give bad press to people maybe then you'd realize how baseless the tests are and how they can affect good knifemakers.

I see. So Noss shouldn't do what he does because it might mean less money in CRK's pocket. Is this or is this not a free country? Do we not have the right as knife consumers to put these products to the test.

You seem to be asserting the idea that people shouldn't test products for fear of finding a flaw or shattering an expectation. Sorry, but thats the battle cry for the mediocre.

It's one thing to have a right to free speech and another to impinge on someone making a living.

So Noss is stopping CRK from making knives? Noss is making defamatory statements? Are you saying that voicing an opinion is the same thing as impinging on someone making a living?

If CRK doesn't like what Noss does then they can 1) perform their own tests 2)lower the cost of their knives 3) change their advertising or 4) make their knives better.

 

[nozh2002]

Noss4 made a post saying "if you want a tough knife dont buy CRK" and that his "tests" are represent good testing when they are only entertainment.....which is wrong and his "lackeys" repeat him all the way., and you guys got the response that Noss4's video's are idiocity and Some makers use hype and so does Noss4.... Who is more right?Am i the only one that sees the Hypocrisy here?

If i keep browbeating you will it make it true then? Just cuz you say theres no hypocrisy doesnt make it so. Hiding behind opinion doesnt make it right. I can post that statement all damn night like you and Nozh have, maybe if you stop trying so hard to press issues and give bad press to people maybe then you'd realize how baseless the tests are and how they can affect good knifemakers.
It's one thing to have a right to free speech and another to impinge on someone making a living.

My statemet is simple - CR knives fail Noss4 test while other knives did not.
Other statement - only way to do something about it - do alternative testing which will show different performance.

Now I has nothing against CR, if they or their supporters will provide tests which show that CR knives perform better then any other - I'll be glad for them, as I am glad for Busse. But so far this is not happening. I was called clown so far, other then that - I do not see any alternative testing done ...

Thanks, Vassili