Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I prolly should not do this...but I have two words that everybody may need to consider here...

Jerry Shipman

and to other words....

Bill Burke

I rest my case.

Shane
 
azranger said:
[/COLOR]
Esav,
Wait just a minute! I cant believe you just said that! You certainly dont have to agree with Noss, but he has the same right to post what he wants as ANYONE ELSE! I thought this was still a free country!! Freedom of speech and all that! Very disappointing!
Click to expand...

I believe Esav's point was that it is equally his right (duty?) to argue about the validity of the tests as it is for Noss to post them (telling him to ignore is as bad as telling Noss not to post).

watchcollector1968 said:
nozh...I suppose I could video tape my knife work. Of course it would be a few hours long filmed over different days of working outside. I use the knives for stuff I could use a hatchet for just because it is fun to do...and trust me, its a lot more fun to do it than watch it. I also dont tote a video camera around with me when I want to do work outside. However your mind is made up, and what good would it serve for me to film it? When I baton my CRK, it is with wood through wood. I dont bust up concrete, I dont attempt to cut pipe or anything else with my knife and I dont smack them with sledge hammers.

As for other knives you refer to that "passed"...good for them, I hope people who own them get many years of good use out of them just like many of us can expect or have already gotten many good years of use from CRK.
Click to expand...

It's funny how it wasn't all that long ago when any form of batoning was seen as controversial subject. Now here we are and batoning with wood seems to be a fully accepted practice.
I suppose the popularity of the argument has fluctuated quite a bit over the past few decades, can anyone remember what common opinion was in the 80's concerning this?
 
Last edited:
lots of area for contention.

Noss does his thing....some people find value in it, some don't. Some find it entertaining, some don't...it really isn't that much different than what Cold Steel does, but Noss doesn't seem to be selling anything, and no meat gets harmed in the process. I think what he does is entertaining, but busting up knives makes me wince.

I have watched a few of his videos, and he seems to be methodically destroying knives. If you want to call that a test, that is your choice. At least when Cliff did it, there were usually some numbers and data that could be used for reference.

Noss lets his video(for the most part) do the talking for him....I'm still not sure what it is saying. If I take a 3-5 lb sledgehammer to a knife in a vise, I'm pretty sure that I can bust most of them, but I wouldn't want to do that because I love knives too much, and have too much respect for the hard work that goes into making them.

I think CRK might keep their steel a bit high in the hardness range based upon personal use and testing, but have not witnessed any weakness that would keep me from going out into the field with them. I own three Sebenzas, a Project I, and a Neil Roberts Warrior Knife, have used them all, including hardwood batoning, but no twisting because I have found it to damage edges in lesser knives, and don't want to risk it, not even with my Busse knives.

I have seen a lot of bellyaching over the years about the costs of knives, especially work done in the US. If you don't like the cost of a knife, don't buy it...you are certainly free to cry about it in public forums, but it would be nice if you did it using your real name.

When the founders of the Custom Knife Collectors Association started up the organization, one of the members decided to start work on codifying how to test knives with an almost universally accepted(by makers, collectors and manufacturers) methodology. He has been slowly gaining ground with the conceptual areas with the help of other members. His name is Jefferson Velasco, and he is known to many in the knife community. If there are any Forumites here that would like to contribute to this effort, I am sure that it would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
nozh2002 said:
You again twisting words.
Click to expand...

I'm not twisting anything. I'm saying you're free to believe whatever you want, regardless of reality, and I can't stop you. If every opinion with which you disagree is some deep and abiding conspiracy to distort the truth as far as you see it, well, that's not my problem; it's yours.
 
nozh2002 said:
My statemet is simple - CR knives fail Noss4 test while other knives did not.
Click to expand...

These aren't "tests." Again, "test" implies some reproducible scientific method. These are stunts and they prove nothing other than that the owner managed to break this specific knife in this specific instance.
 
Sharp Phil said:
I'm not twisting anything. I'm saying you're free to believe whatever you want, regardless of reality, and I can't stop you. If every opinion with which you disagree is some deep and abiding conspiracy to distort the truth as far as you see it, well, that's not my problem; it's yours.
Click to expand...

I am not sure where you get conspiracy from, probably from same place you get airbags for knives. But I do not see yet for you reason to stand into position like you are telling truth here and we just can not stand this.

From you I see only bold statements like "stupid and pointless", also you dismiss wood batooning as some abstract not practical destruction done just for fun. And instead of explaining why do you tink this is no survival task - you got in abstract aruments like that one, like we can not stand truth or something...

Besides all twisted words the truth is simple and clear - CR knives fail batooning wood whyle many other knives don't. Sorry if I say it again, but I feel we need to stay on the subject instead of going into this fictional abstract reality you building here with evil knife smasher Noss4 etc... Do you have anything else to say about this wood batooning failure rather then "stupid and pointless". Do you know what it is we are talking about and did you actually see those tests?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Sharp Phil said:
These aren't "tests." Again, "test" implies some reproducible scientific method. These are stunts and they prove nothing other than that the owner managed to break this specific knife in this specific instance.
Click to expand...

Can you define what is actually scientific methodology and scientific tests?

This test is perfectly reproducible and perfectly scientific - they are well documented, they follow same procedure and they are informative.

And this is what I am asking - instead of all those bla-bla-bla - reproduce it and prove that those knives can stand it.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Kohai999 said:
I think CRK might keep their steel a bit high in the hardness range based upon personal use and testing
Click to expand...

I think though in terms of toughness it may be the other way around. I recall seeing a crucible chart that showed optimal toughness for A2 being achieved between 57 and 60 RC with sharp drop offs outside this range. CRK lists their A2 knives at 55 - 57. Maybe someone with more steel knowledge could chime in here.
 
Question: has anyone bought any of the particular knives tested and, after watching the videos, actually tried reproducing them?

If not, how do you know they are not reproducable?
 
nozh2002 said:
If you want to learn what is scientific and what is not - google it. It is all available.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

I are smart enough to tell the difference. Just as i are smart enuf to have common sense. Your posts are getting shorter and less repetitive.
 
Nozh, you continue to tell us to go do the same thing to our knives and then how a Busse survived it. I also noticed a RAT knife did pretty darn well in those tests, so can I conclude that a RAT is just as good as a Busse for far less cost? Or should Busse lower their prices?

Not bashing Busse, nobody will argue the point that they do make probably some of the most durable knives around. However, I suspect that given a big enough sledge and whack it enough I could break it...does not mean it is bad at all, just that hitting something enough times with a big enough hammer will break it.

I tell you what, I will reproduce his tests with a CRK if you want to buy it...I refuse to waste money to do something to a knife that I know will destroy it...not just CRK, but most any knife out there.

I will however do this if you think it is acceptable. Sometime in the next week or so I will take my CRK and baton it (WITH WOOD) through wood...I will try to do it enough to satisfy you that it is enough hits. It will prove one of two things...that either a CRK can handle large amounts of batoning (done sensibly) or it will break and I will be out a knife.

Here is the knife in question. It does not look quite as good now as it has been used (and batoned) but we will see how it does on video.
crk1.jpg
 
It wont do any good, there is no reasoning with people like this.
You are a better man than i to risk a nice Knife for the sake of Controversy Advocates.

I still say he should send one of HIS knives to Noss4.
 
From parallel topic - I just write down step by step those "stupid and pointless destruction for entartainmet". See for yourself:

Let then goes over Noss4 video for Project I step by step to see this "knife destruction for entertaining".

He introduced knive - as A2 thick heavy duty one piece...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0H8EFC26vw

1. Peel apple, (I tests on potato) - shows basic ability to use knife for "fine" thing like food prparation, reasonable test and Project one doing all right.
2. Slice an apple - reaonable test to me - show that blade is bit too thick for fine slicing.
3. Cut 10000 pounf ribbon cutting
4. Control Cutting of 10 000 pound ribbon
5. Cut same with serration
6. Chopping 2x4 - not a good chopper according to Noss4. get some energy to do. not heavy enough...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ2fT...eature=related

7. Cut 10000 ribbon after chopping - cut well no difference on the edge.
8. Batooning firewood hitting with wood - done.
9. Cutting Ribbon after batooning. - less sharp.
10. Tip break test on 2x4 "dig through" - perfect shape after testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VmWJ...eature=related

11. Tip test on metal - snaped off very tip few mm but no any serious non fixable, compare holes with holes from other knife. Reasonable test for survival knife.
12. Batooning through 2x4 with 3 pound steel hummer

I would say he hit it very gently, defenetely without intention to destroy it with blade about 60 degree to wood) until at 8 minutes it breaks very easy without actually any hard hit and at the different point from where he did hit it with hummer, but near handle. Also it was clearly surprise for Noss4 he did not really expected this.

So is it stupid and pointless destruction for entertainment, unrepeatable etc, etc, etc?

Thanks, Vassili.
Edit/Delete Message
 
Last edited:
Sharp Phil said:
These aren't "tests." Again, "test" implies some reproducible scientific method. These are stunts and they prove nothing other than that the owner managed to break this specific knife in this specific instance.
Click to expand...

When you baton do you hit the knife at the exact same spot at the exact same angle with the exact same force? If so, then you should sign up for the remake of the 6 million dollar man. If not then you are human like the rest of us. As a result, what Noss is doing is exactly replicating what Joe knifeowner is going to do because its a physical impossibility to do anything else.

It may not be "technical" or repeatable, but neither is a crash test and yet we value those. This is no different.
 
watchcollector1968 said:
Nozh, you continue to tell us to go do the same thing to our knives and then how a Busse survived it. I also noticed a RAT knife did pretty darn well in those tests, so can I conclude that a RAT is just as good as a Busse for far less cost? Or should Busse lower their prices?

Not bashing Busse, nobody will argue the point that they do make probably some of the most durable knives around. However, I suspect that given a big enough sledge and whack it enough I could break it...does not mean it is bad at all, just that hitting something enough times with a big enough hammer will break it.

I tell you what, I will reproduce his tests with a CRK if you want to buy it...I refuse to waste money to do something to a knife that I know will destroy it...not just CRK, but most any knife out there.

I will however do this if you think it is acceptable. Sometime in the next week or so I will take my CRK and baton it (WITH WOOD) through wood...I will try to do it enough to satisfy you that it is enough hits. It will prove one of two things...that either a CRK can handle large amounts of batoning (done sensibly) or it will break and I will be out a knife.

Here is the knife in question. It does not look quite as good now as it has been used (and batoned) but we will see how it does on video.
crk1.jpg
Click to expand...

I am very sure that you did not actually see those videos - please, have a look and read what I just wrote - step by step. I will let you make your own conclusion is it acceptable or not.

And I will not buy it - why should I? I am not asking you to provide this data to me - I do not care. But if you or someone else like to dismiss what Noss4 did - you only may do alternative testing not just talk it over, but I will not pay anything! Sorry.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Cool your jets there Turbo...you buying it was a joke. I did suffer through the videos...like one of those bad movies that never seems to end.

I think you have made it plain though, if it aint Noss beating it to death with a hammer, you could care less. Anybody else batoning with anything short of his "hammer of truth" is meaningless to you.

Have a nice day :D
 
watchcollector1968 said:
Cool your jets there Turbo...you buying it was a joke. I did suffer through the videos...like one of those bad movies that never seems to end.

I think you have made it plain though, if it aint Noss beating it to death with a hammer, you could care less. Anybody else batoning with anything short of his "hammer of truth" is meaningless to you.

Have a nice day :D
Click to expand...

Well watch this video - he is not beating it to deth! I would say that he quite careful in his last test. Just watch it and see that he has no intention to destroy it and this cought him by surprise! He was even upset that it ends up this way.

Also - I am doing my tests as well - edge retention... If you do same tests Noss4 did and it will pass I will accept it - but paying for this? Sorry. I think ultimately CR should do this tests not even Noss4, failure he found is not result of abuse IMHO - see that movie - third clip around 8 minutes...

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I've batoned my Project I through wood... it held up fine. Lost some of the coating but that was it. No other damage...

So what else must I do to 'prove' this is a tough knife? Try to break it with a sledgehammer?

Ridiculous...

And why do people keep comparing knives with cars? What does one have to do with the other? Cars are not crash tested to see if the metal will stand up to the impact. They are tested to see if the driver and passengers will survive. The car manufacturers KNOW the metal will crumple like paper. Hence the airbags, crumple zones, etc etc.

If you want to test a knife - test its CUTTING ability. That is what it is designed for.

The parts of this test that are controversial are the parts where he purposely tries to break the knife. Why? Because this is patently an idiotic thing to do. And all right-thinking people recognise it as such. So some knives survived the test. Well, bravo!

ALL equipment can fail under extreme conditions, no matter how expensive or 'tough' it is. Just ask the military. It's called 'Murphy's Law'.

Which is why people who place themselves in life-threatening situations will have a back-up.

Hence the old saw: "Two is one, and one is none."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top