Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

[busselover]

Well, more like:
Let's run the car without motor oil to see how far does it goes and what breaks first. I would not do that to my car on purpose but it could happen. And if some one does it on a video on my particular model of car I would find it informative.

Or how about how far the car will run once the temp gauge is pegged? Abuse? Sure. Stupidity? Yeah. Normal use? No, not normal driving procedure but it might in rare circumstance be necessary....and would indeed be nice to know that if you are using the vehicle regularly in say, the desert, that it would take you 20 miles further than the competition's vehicle if you blew a hose and some bad guys were behind you....

 

[Cobalt]

Why should I waste time sharpening/reprofiling a $300 knife so that it is sharp enough to......cut?

Give me a freakin' break. Like I said, the Busse E series were stout knives that could chop well. Chop well for a knife that is. Axes are for chopping. Knives are for slicing. I could have sharpened it so it would have cut better, but not so that it would have cut as well as a knife should cut.

No biggie. What ever floats your boat.

I have already told you that I have an e-handle that is sharper than your project 1. According to you, it is a sharpened prybar. Well, if I can get a knife like a prybar that doesn't snap like a toothpick to cut better than your sharp, hollow ground knife, great and that is what I have.

Ask yourself why the comp cutters are all flat ground, NOT HOLLOW ground. So they are all sharpened prybars? Great, I am in great company then.

I agree, however, what ever floats your boat or mine. I like my razor sharp prybar knife, which will outlast yours.

 

[akadave2]

Ive seen Gransfors Bruks axes get out-chopped by FBMs on a regular basis.

 

[Bors]

Any old timer would tell you that something 1/4" thick is a sharpened pry bar, not a knife.

Really...So all of those early 19th century Bowie's are sharpened pry bars....Interesting..........

 

[knarfeng]

Really...So all of those early 19th century Bowie's are sharpened pry bars....Interesting..........

All what 19th century Bowies?
For how many do you have measurements?
Can you cite sources?

You may well be correct. I just have never seen that many actual 19th century Bowie knives or dimensional information thereon. (Seen a fair many fakes and "reproductions" though. The accuracy of the "reproductions" is usually dubious.)

The only knives that I have ever looked up information about are the Green River style knives that the 18th and early 19th century trappers used. They were not real thick as I remember. More like kitchen knives than anything else.

 

[Bors]

I have already told you that I have an e-handle that is sharper than your project 1. According to you, it is a sharpened prybar. Well, if I can get a knife like a prybar that doesn't snap like a toothpick to cut better than your sharp, hollow ground knife, great and that is what I have.

Ask yourself why the comp cutters are all flat ground, NOT HOLLOW ground. So they are all sharpened prybars? Great, I am in great company then.

I agree, however, what ever floats your boat or mine. I like my razor sharp prybar knife, which will outlast yours.

There is a big reason why they are flat ground as opposed to hollow ground. Flatt ground cuts well but is more expensive to make. Hollow cuts well but is far less expensive to make. When was the last time you saw a Hollow ground axe... Axes are not pry bars now are they.

Now why does Flatt ground cut better well, it has to do with the angle and the transition. Hollow ground blades are typically saber ground. The transition from the edge to the full thickness of the blade occurs at ~half the width of the blade. For the Flatt ground blade this transition does not occur until the full width of the blade. The angle is far less. It has nothing to do with a pry bar.......

 

[Bors]

All what 19th century Bowies?
For how many do you have measurements?
Can you cite sources?

You may well be correct. I just have never seen that many actual 19th century Bowie knives or dimensional information thereon. (Seen a fair many fakes and "reproductions" though. The accuracy of the "reproductions" is usually dubious.)

The only knives that I have ever looked up information about are the Green River style knives that the 18th and early 19th century trappers used. They were not real thick as I remember. More like kitchen knives than anything else.

You are correct that dimensional info is scarce however,

This Knife is dated to the 1840s overall length is ~17.5" and the blade thickness is ~1/2 inch with a weight of ~2.5lbs. Looking at it it's hardley a prybar.

This is the Edwin forest bowie. Most believe that it was the knife Bowie used at the sandbar duel.

The blade I believe is ~1/4" thick and 12" long also not really a pry bar.

 

[knarfeng]

Cool. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Nuke41]

What seems funny to me is that some of you fellas spent $800 or more on a Busse or Mad Dog knife, which is clearly nothing more than a spray painted sharpened pry bar made out of good quality steel, when a cheap issue $30 Air Force Survival Knife will last if treated like a knife. Bo Randall must be spinning in his grave. For $800 I could buy a nice fixed blade knife, axe, adze, folder, and pocket tool. Use each for what they were designed and all will last a lifetime. Y'all go ahead using knives as jackhammers, crow bars and such if that suits you.

 

[shecky]

There is a big reason why they are flat ground as opposed to hollow ground. Flatt ground cuts well but is more expensive to make. Hollow cuts well but is far less expensive to make. When was the last time you saw a Hollow ground axe... Axes are not pry bars now are they.

Now why does Flatt ground cut better well, it has to do with the angle and the transition. Hollow ground blades are typically saber ground. The transition from the edge to the full thickness of the blade occurs at ~half the width of the blade. For the Flatt ground blade this transition does not occur until the full width of the blade. The angle is far less. It has nothing to do with a pry bar.......

You're making stuff up here. "Flatt" [sic] ground knives are not inherently better cutters, nor are they inherently more expensive to manufacture.

As for the definition of a "sharpened prybar", I think you may be arbitrarily limiting the term to fit your argument. The term usually seems to refer simply to a (perhaps overly) thick knife. It does not actually have to look like a prybar.

 

[me2]

Speaking of sharpened pry bars, if the Air Force Survival Knife my brother had when we were kids is typical, they are about as good an example as I've ever held. Admittedly I've only held one Busse, a Basic 7, now discontinued. It was no thicker behind the edge than the Air Force knife, but had a more effective full flat grind on a wider blade.

 

[Cobalt]

All what 19th century Bowies?
For how many do you have measurements?
Can you cite sources?

You may well be correct. I just have never seen that many actual 19th century Bowie knives or dimensional information thereon. (Seen a fair many fakes and "reproductions" though. The accuracy of the "reproductions" is usually dubious.)

The only knives that I have ever looked up information about are the Green River style knives that the 18th and early 19th century trappers used. They were not real thick as I remember. More like kitchen knives than anything else.

yes many where thin, but like today, those wanting something more durable got a more massive butcher style blade that could chop bone and not disintegrate doing it. It was quite common, and frankly, I am surprised you do not know if you really have searched these old knives. I have it o my other pc, that had issues with viruses, but I think I have it fixed and will look for it...

 

[Cobalt]

Knarfeng, I could not find pics, but in the dep dark recesses of my favorite places I found it, so here it is for your historical and viewing pleasure. Not to mention that I have owned one of these, seen about 6 more on ebay, and have owned about 4 more really thick civil war era camp knives.
__________________________________________________________
The Hudson Bay Camp Knife
by Fred Holder

In the February 1994 issue of Blacksmith's Gazette, we addressed some of the most common items of ironwork made by today's blacksmiths for the muzzle loading trade. Knives are another item much used by the muzzle loader shooter and re-creator. During the fur trade era, the time frame many of the buckskinners emulate, a great number of knives were imported from England for trade with the Indians. Many of these knives were also used by the trappers who went to the mountains in search of the beaver. One type of knife much favored by trappers was imported by the Hudson Bay company from the English shops of Sheffield during the first half of the nineteenth century in fairly large quantities.

The knife depicted here is a close copy of a Jukes Coulson, Stokes & Co. knife illustrated in Figure 45 of Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men by Carl P. Russell. The thick horn scales on the original knife are held to the hilt by oversized rivets holding brass washers and by a heavy metal ferrule riveted to the front end of the hilt. The blade is about 8-1/2 inch long but of such thickness and shape as to be quite stiff. Russell states, of the knife, "Here is a knife made to order for the hunter or cook responsible for breaking out chunks of carcasses of the game animals to be served up to trappers. This type of knife was for a time sufficiently stable to give it a recognized place in the inventories of the fur companies and was commonly dubbed the Hudson Bay Knife." The specimen illustrated in Russell's book is owned by the U.S. National Museum. Russell notes that The Museum of the Plains Indian, Browning, Montana also has one like it, except that a third big rivet takes the place of the ferrule on the hilt. Other specimens are owned by the Museum of the American Indian and the North Dakota Historical Society, Russell says.

This is a copy of the drawing provided by Ike Bay. It was taken from a drawing done by Richard E. Sverdrup of Longview, Washington in 1971. Overall length of the knife is 14-1/8 inches, blade is 8-7/8 inches long and 1-7/8 inches wide by 1/4" thick. The blade is marked Jukes Coulson Stokes & Co. Sheffield., Handles are walnut panels, held by four rivets. Ferrele & Rivet heads: brass approximately 1/32 inch thick.

The author first became acquainted with this type of knife in 1983 when Ike Bay sent in a drawing of the Hudson Bay Camp Knife. The drawing had been made after the knife illustrated in Russell's book. Subsequently, a knife was made to the specifications on the drawing using a piece of 1/4 inch by 2 inch leaf spring as the stock and birdseye maple scales. The knife was forged to general shape and was then filed and ground to final shape. It was left in the annealed state since it was planned to be used as a camp knife for splitting wood for the campfire. It has served the author well over the last dozen years although it has had some pretty rough treatment. It is still used to split wood both for campfires and for wood turning.

When putting on the scales, the cutlers rivets that were available were not long enough to go through the scales and the thick blade; therefore, they were recessed into the scales and brass disks were inlaid over the top of them to give the appearance of large washers. The scales were also epoxied to the blade. The brass plates at the front end of the hilt were simply epoxied to the scales. They were never riveted as they should have been and one of the plates in now missing.

This is a photograph of the knife that the author made using the drawing provided by Ike Bay as reference. The blade was made from 1/4 inch by 2 inch leaf spring and the handle scales were made from birdseye maple. All other fittings were brass.

This was an interesting project which resulted in a very fine camp tool when it was completed. Tapering a piece of 1/4 inch by 2 inch spring steel to a wedge cross section was a lot of hammer work. I did it with a four pound short-handled hand hammer, but would have found it easier with a striker swinging an eight or ten pound sledge. In any case, the result was worth the effort.

This knife should be a good project for blacksmiths serving the muzzle loading sport, or for a muzzle loader who is doing a little blacksmithing to complete his "outfit."

This article was originally printed in the March 1994 issue of Blacksmith's Gazette. It has been edited to fit the format of our Blacksmith's Gazette Internet Site.

 

[komondor]

When was the last time you saw a Hollow ground axe... Axes are not pry bars now are they.

Axes are for chopping and whittling, not cutting or slicing. And axes are not flat ground, they are convex ground.

 

[komondor]

Nice knives, Cobalt.

I still think knives of that thickness were the exception and not the norm.

akadave says:

Ive seen Gransfors Bruks axes get out-chopped by FBMs on a regular basis.

Yeah, if you let your axe edge get dull and the Busse stays sharp, then I suppose the Busses can outchop the side of a small light and green branch.

That's the only combination that's going to happen, though.

 

[Ebbtide]

It was left in the annealed state since it was planned to be used as a camp knife for splitting wood for the campfire.

Left in the annealed state eh?
Sez alot about the source.
Obviously not a knife knut

So to summarize on the Green Beret/CRK knife.
CRK and the GB's get together on a knife project.
Plans are discussed, prototypes made.
Together they come up with a design that both the GB's and CRK are happy with.
The knife goes into production as a GB/SF approved knife that is, IIRC, given as an award to all that qualify as a GB.
CRK and the GBs are nice enough to offer the exact same knife, the one that is good enough and designed by the GB's, to the general public.

Along comes a guy on youtube who breaks the knife.
Followed by a bunch of critics who are willing to nitpick ad copy catch phrases like "hard use" and are willing to compare the knife in question to the uber indestructo brands.
All the while never realizing that one has nothing to do with the other.
The GB's & CRK designed a knife to fit the GB's wants and needs.
CRK fulfilled those wants and needs.
The GB's are happy.
CRK is happy.
There are many CRK owners that are happy.
The only ones that aren't happy are those that want the CRK knife in question to fulfill their wants and needs.
One would think that CRK, with their knowledge and resources, could make a knife that could compete with the 'unbreakable battle bars' of the world.
They didn't.
They made the knife to fill the need of the GB/SF guys.

If you want a knife like the Green Beret guys have, buy the CRK.
If you want a knife that won't break no matter how hard you play with it, get a different one.

Like the man sez there is a bottom for every seat.

 

[BIG MATT]

Wish I had that type of money to buy knives and test em like that!

 

[nozh2002]

Left in the annealed state eh?
Sez alot about the source.
Obviously not a knife knut

So to summarize on the Green Beret/CRK knife.
CRK and the GB's get together on a knife project.
Plans are discussed, prototypes made.
Together they come up with a design that both the GB's and CRK are happy with.
The knife goes into production as a GB/SF approved knife that is, IIRC, given as an award to all that qualify as a GB.
CRK and the GBs are nice enough to offer the exact same knife, the one that is good enough and designed by the GB's, to the general public.

Along comes a guy on youtube who breaks the knife.
Followed by a bunch of critics who are willing to nitpick ad copy catch phrases like "hard use" and are willing to compare the knife in question to the uber indestructo brands.
All the while never realizing that one has nothing to do with the other.
The GB's & CRK designed a knife to fit the GB's wants and needs.
CRK fulfilled those wants and needs.
The GB's are happy.
CRK is happy.
There are many CRK owners that are happy.
The only ones that aren't happy are those that want the CRK knife in question to fulfill their wants and needs.
One would think that CRK, with their knowledge and resources, could make a knife that could compete with the 'unbreakable battle bars' of the world.
They didn't.
They made the knife to fill the need of the GB/SF guys.

If you want a knife like the Green Beret guys have, buy the CRK.
If you want a knife that won't break no matter how hard you play with it, get a different one.

Like the man sez there is a bottom for every seat.

How do you know that GB is happy and this knife fills their need?

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Ebbtide]

They approved it.

 

[tsiloics]

Why would you buy a car that stops running when you pour motor oil in the transmission fluid, when you could buy a car that doesn't?

This is just silly.

Damn good question.

Let's carry that all the way through, and imagine that the car in question was designed partly around the idea of being robust enough to function in situations where tranny oil wasn't available, so motor oil would have to suffice for both applications.

It's almost as though you think it is not cool to favor something that works more broadly over something that works less broadly.

That whole line of reasoning is completely asinine.