Chris Reeve Destrution Test On Youtube?

[Buffalohump]

I have a Project One and a Battle Mistress. Both chop wood very well.

When I need to break up rock, however, I reach for a hammer and cold chisel - not a knife. Duh.

All this nonsense about survival makes me laugh. Your knife is just one tool that might ensure your survival in a life or death situation, but in all honesty how many people have actually ever used a knife to save themselves? Your brain is a far more valuable tool than any piece of steel with an edge, no matter how much you paid for it.

Its just a marketing ploy, one that appears to work very successfully, judging by the number of threads that get started here about 'survival knives' that can handle anything.

Absurd!

 

[Thomas W]

Why does it need to be there?

See Marketing 101. Also I'll refer back to my comment about common sense perception.

You seem to have your mind made up with all of this, and that's ok. I've got an 09 catalog to finish up, and will keep our talk fresh in my mind. Enjoyed the conversation.

CRK falls into a subset of knives that are marketed as hard use products. Thus there is an expectation that these knives should be able to withstand more abuse than knives which aren't in this category. As I said earlier, it is fully within the control of the knifemaker to put caveats on what their knives are intended to be used for. Doug Ritter makes no bones about this with his fixed blade. CRK however, did not do this. Instead they spend most of their time on their time on the website talking about how tough their products are. Therefore for both of CRK's to fail so early and under only mild treatment runs contrary to everything they advertise.

...and the others as well, who were they again? I remember hearing Cliff go off on his tangents (not that you're going off on a tangent ) about hype and such, he couldn't back that talk up with peeps or factories when I called him on it.

If you are going to be honest here, you must admit that the performance of the CRK knives did not come anywhere close to what the advertising says. There is simply no excuse for such expensive knives to be soundly surpassed by knives which make no such contentions as to toughness and cost anywhere from half to a quarter as much.

If that isn't living up to their reputation then I don't know what is.

If I'm going to be honest, I haven't read the ad copy of the knife or watched the vid.

I do know Chris and the folks at CRK's, and have seen and voted for the accolades they have received over the last 20 years. Their reputation speaks for itself, and a destruction test video is not gonna change that, at least with me. I've also owned and pounded on multiple fixed blades and folders from them without failure (if I only had a video to prove that's true) .

 

[Elen]

...and the others as well, who were they again? I remember hearing Cliff go off on his tangents (not that you're going off on a tangent ) about hype and such, he couldn't back that talk up with peeps or factories when I called him on it.

I think that's a silly question, quite honestly, and without any offense intended. There are a lot of companies that market their tools as "hard-use", capable of doing things your average kitchen knife would break doing. CRK, sure, but also Cold Steel, the Busse family companies, Strider, Ka-bar, RAT, Fällkniven and so on just to mention a few. Some of them are pretty much as tough as they say and have warranties to back it up - and some are not.

 

[Thomas W]

I think that's a silly question, quite honestly, and without any offense intended. There are a lot of companies that market their tools as "hard-use", capable of doing things your average kitchen knife would break doing. CRK, sure, but also Cold Steel, the Busse family companies, Strider, Ka-bar, RAT, Fällkniven and so on just to mention a few. Some of them are pretty much as tough as they say and have warranties to back it up - and some are not.

No offense taken.

Who's not as tough as they say? I only mention this as it's been brought up before about all this manufacturer/individual "hype" that knives don't live up to. I'm just asking who you guys are talking about? Do any of the manufacturers you mention Elen fall into that category? Sorry if that is a silly question as well.

I think any CRK will do chores that exceed any kitchen knife, don't you?

 

[hardheart]

let's send Noss some kitchen knives!

why not, he's already tested a Mora, and the Bushman wasn't exactly a thick slab of steel, could be interesting

 

[Elen]

No offense taken.

Who's not as tough as they say? I only mention this as it's been brought up before about all this manufacturer/individual "hype" that knives don't live up to. I'm just asking who you guys are talking about? Do any of the manufacturers you mention Elen fall into that category? Sorry if that is a silly question as well.

I think any CRK will do chores that exceed any kitchen knife, don't you?

No, not a silly question at all. When we're talking about manufacturers marketing their knives as "hard-use" tools instead of just simple cutting tools, it's a long list. A lot of manufacturers do that. I think most have seen the Cold Steel Proof videos for example that contain some pretty abusive use. And yet, their warranty doesn't cover damage caused by abuse. The same goes for Fällkniven, for example. On the other hand, some other companies do cover even such damage. But that in itself doesn't say the marketing is just hype (or even that it isn't). Who does and who does not live up to their marketing hype is pretty much up to each user to decide, except for those cases where the manufacturer is caught in an obvious lie.

As for the kitchen knife bit, most pricier knives certainly are more versatile than cheap kitchen knives, as they should be. CRK knives obviously are much more durable than ye average kitchen knife. But I wouldn't say they're more durably than any kitchen knife - Busse did make a run of kitchen knives, too, out of rather thick INFI.

 

[Thomas W]

So I checked a few of the manufacturer sites you mention Elen:

Kabar https://www.kabar.com/compinfo.jsp Quite reserved in their descriptions, no over the top claims.

Cold Steel have vids backing up their claims.

Busse & Co. Tested, proved out. No problems.

Strider - http://www.striderknives.com/site/ Pretty sure their knives live up to their hype. A few have been tested without results that didn't add up.

CRK - http://www.chrisreeve.com/pressawards.htm I don't see crazy hype here. Maybe it's me?

Fallkniven - http://www.fallkniven.com/next-index.htm Seems pretty basic. What am I missing?

Sorry, posted at the same time Elen. The warranty shouldn't really have an effect on if the knife is hyped or not. It's gonna hold up or its not. From what I've read in the above, I don't see any issue with the copy and how the knives will probably preform. No factory is making claims the product can't back up. This is not to say there may not be a lemon floating around, but as a whole, cutlery manufacturers normally stop short in the "claims" dept. With that said, how is any of this dishonest?

 

[Elen]

So I checked a few of the manufacturer sites you mention Elen:

Kabar https://www.kabar.com/compinfo.jsp Quite reserved in their descriptions, no over the top claims.

Cold Steel have vids backing up their claims.

Busse & Co. Tested, proved out. No problems.

Strider - http://www.striderknives.com/site/ Pretty sure their knives live up to their hype. A few have been tested without results that didn't add up.

CRK - http://www.chrisreeve.com/pressawards.htm I don't see crazy hype here. Maybe it's me?

Fallkniven - http://www.fallkniven.com/next-index.htm Seems pretty basic. What am I missing?

Sorry, posted at the same time Elen.

None necessarily make over the top claims, but my point is that they do market their knives as hard-use tools instead of cutting instruments that should not be used in any non-cutting, abusive task.

That's the general idea here: we're pointing out that many manufacturers market their knives as tools suitable and indeed designed for more than just cutting. Ka-bar for example says that their heavy bowies do well in "digging and other tough tasks". Since the manufacturers do this, we're claiming it's awfully strange that people then come in to threads like this one to yell about how knives are intended only for cutting, and using them for anything else is abuse - when in reality, the very manufacturer of the knife markets their knives as being able to take such abuse. Perhaps this clarifies things a little?

For example, if a Busse FFBM should somehow break while being hammered though wood, and then someone like Noss came in and said that it was pretty surprising and disappointing, we would find it absurd if someone else then came in to point out how knives (including the FFBM) are supposedly only intended for cutting - even though the knife in question is marketed for uses beyond cutting and obviously designed for it, considering the thickness and geometry.

Personally, I'm not so much criticizing the manufacturers as I'm calling BS on those who claim that all knives are only designed and intended for cutting.

 

[Thomas W]

None necessarily make over the top claims, but my point is that they do market their knives as hard-use tools instead of cutting instruments that should not be used in any non-cutting, abusive task.

As consumers, don't we have to use a tad bit of common sense into understanding ad copy? Digging and other tough tasks don't equal up to jacking up the trailer and other over exaggerated tasks.

Personally, I'm not so much criticizing the manufacturers as I'm calling BS on those who claim that all knives are only designed and intended for cutting.

Fair enough.

 

[Thomas W]

Crucible has probably been one that has been taken to task most here on the forums for their so called "hype", yet it's funny when those favorite steel polls come up, how S30V dominates. Non users that have bought into they hype maybe?

 

[Elen]

As consumers, don't we have to use a tad bit of common sense into understanding ad copy? Digging and other tough tasks don't equal up to jacking up the trailer and other over exaggerated tasks.

True of course. But it does nullify the commonly heard cop-out response of "these knives are cutting tools only." The manufacturers' marketing says they are suitable for more than just that, so "hard-use" or even destruction tests and such are entirely fair game. For kitchen knives, the situation might be different, but not for quarter inch thick combat knives.

 

[hardheart]

yet it's funny when those favorite steel polls come up, how S30V dominates. Non users that have bought into they hype maybe?

hmm, maybe. Consider the most sold-through Kershaw models and what steels are in them. Or look at STR's comments in the Buck 420HC thread about down to earth knife users and their opinions on super steels.

Not just S30V, but all the super steels.

 

[STAGE 2]

...and the others as well, who were they again? I remember hearing Cliff go off on his tangents (not that you're going off on a tangent ) about hype and such, he couldn't back that talk up with peeps or factories when I called him on it.

Elen already answered this question generally but I want to address it specifically in regards to CRK.

Their hollow handled knives are expressly marketed as "survival knives". We all know what kind of expectations and images that evokes so I won't go into any detail there. CRK however makes specific claims about these knives. From their ads:

The one piece design offers the highest possible weight/strength ratio

All the one piece knives are hardened to 55-57 RC and random checks are made to ensure accuracy. This hardness gives superb toughness

A2 Tool Steel offers excellent edge retention and good shock resistance

Designed to incorporate the two basic criteria required in knives destined for hard field usage, these spearpoints have plenty of blade weight and good strong points. This design has been used by professional soldiers all over the world who have found them to be extremely good weapons as well as rugged dependable tools.


And these last two are the most telling...

The aluminum butt cap provides an airtight closure for the hollow handle and is designed so that it can be used for hammering. Because using the knife as a hammer can be dangerous to one's knuckles and fingers, we do not recommend that this be done unless in an emergency situation. It is preferable to use a hammer

All knives carry a lifetime guarantee and a damaged knife will be replaced or repaired at Chris' discretion. This guarantee does not cover damage to a knife that has been thrown or used for heavy levering


You will notice they didn't say "dont hammer because its bad for the knife". They said don't do it because you might hurt yourself. And then they list throwing and heavy levering as the two things which void the warranty.

So we have many many specific claims as to the knifes toughness and superb strength. We also have the company specifically stating that the knife was designed for things other than cutting. And they finish it by listing the only two things which the knife was not designed for, prying and throwing.

If I'm going to be honest, I haven't read the ad copy of the knife or watched the vid.

Then I'll give you the cliffs notes. Both CRk knives broke while being hammered into a piece of wood. Yes wood. Not concrete, not metal, not polymer, wood. Both knives broke close to the handle at the thickest part of the blade. Theses are marketed as hard use survival knives and are specifically designed for things other than cutting including hammering.

In light of all this, I don't know how you can't concede that they fell short of the specifics claims that CRK has made.

 

[Thomas W]

STAGE2, like I said, your mind has already been made up, fine, climb with it and shout it from the rooftops. It's all good with me. Seems like this is all yesterdays news to me, but beating a dead horse can be liberating on occasion.

In the mean time stop watching and reading any and every form of advertising, you'll at least feel no one has lied to you, and there won't be disappointments for you at the end of a given day. Oh and careful ears around those sales peeps...

 

[nozh2002]

Thomas,

Why Kershaw will not step up and do some public testing for your knives leading industry once more this time for "Hype-Free" advertisement.

Should not be too hard to make several steel plates with different thickness and hammer it into wood. Let Crucible join this effort and provides you steel for free - then we may see what steel is capable for.

I guess it will be easy for you then speak for entire industry. Why do you defend CR if you have no control over their product. Instead of giving speaches to protect some marketing fluffiness - do similar tests Noss4 are doing.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[paua]

Probably no knife manufacturers deliberately want to lie to us. After all, honesty is the best policy. Then why did I feel so surprised and disappointed to see CRK knives failed when other less repected knives passed? They obviously used their wording very carefully so not to give us any evidence to hold them responsible for our wrong impression. But since there are quite a few broken hearts (I saved for more than one year to buy my first knife, a CRK Project1) out there, is it wrong to blame the manufacturers for weaving that kind of image into our mind? It's true this world is full of such shameless traps so buyers beware. Yet still any decent party should strive to show some accountability no matter in what aspect of their product, which is called integrity.

 

[STAGE 2]

In the mean time stop watching and reading any and every form of advertising, you'll at least feel no one has lied to you, and there won't be disappointments for you at the end of a given day. Oh and careful ears around those sales peeps...

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I come from a time when products were sold based on their merits. I believe in things like craftsmanship, integrity, and doing business on a handshake.

I understand times have changed, but that doesn't mean its been for the better.

 

[Thomas W]

I guess I'm old fashioned, but I come from a time when products were sold based on their merits. I believe in things like craftsmanship, integrity, and doing business on a handshake.

I understand times have changed, but that doesn't mean its been for the better.

Cool attitude STAGE2, but I'm unsure how that separates itself from this topic.

CRK's has rare craftsmanship within their product, tons of integrity, and I'd trust Chris with a handshake any day, anywhere.

 

[Kohai999]

Cool attitude STAGE2, but I'm unsure how that separates itself from this topic.

CRK's has rare craftsmanship within their product, tons of integrity, and I'd trust Chris with a handshake any day, anywhere.

Yo, T-Dub...just remember that most of these boys making the putdown comments DO NOT have the stones to step up to Chris or yourself in person to speak face to face, and articulate(as in easily understood in English) specific complaints.

The very nature of the internet removes a lot of accountablity, which is why I have always signed my name here, and use that name at shows....every punk that talks a big game goes running like a cockroach when the serious and no quarter is on the table.

Been that way since the beginning, yunno?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[nozh2002]

Cool attitude STAGE2, but I'm unsure how that separates itself from this topic.

CRK's has rare craftsmanship within their product, tons of integrity, and I'd trust Chris with a handshake any day, anywhere.

...and they do not stand Noss4 tests...

Thanks, Vassili.