Chris Reeve knives on (knifetests.com)

3Guardsmen said:
Either that, or you're just pushing the CTD Rough Use Knife because it happens to be made where you reside.;)
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OH yeah I can read the headlines now.

Dingy brings down America and rises China above all by promoting the superior Cheaper Than Dirt Rough Use Knife over the Chris Reeve knife. Oh and that Noss guy helped him do it.

Please spare us the racist commentary. . .
 
Back in the early 80's when I was in the USMC I used mostly K-Bars like most did, but as most of us figured out over time was they would bend or break if used very hard and they didn't hold and edge worth a crap. I personally broke a lot of them over the 4 years I was in doing various field tasks. Now we are talking about using a knife for everything here because you don't have any other tools to use. That said I expected to break them over time. Now we really didn't have the choices that they have today like the Trail Master, Recon Scout, Busse Battle Mistress etc. So we used what was available to us for the most part.

My take on this is when a Company markets a COMBAT FIELD knife it had better be tough or it will break or bend, chip etc. Remember the knife is the ONLY tool the Marine or Soldier has to use, it's the do everything tool AND it has to cut well on top of it.

When I go out Hiking, camping, or just chopping up stuff in my back yard I still do the same thing today, I carry just a knife. Today I carry either one of my Trail Masters or my Busse CG FBM. Why? Well because I KNOW they can take ANYTHING I throw at them, and that means anything. It's a real comfort to know that my knife won't fail me.

In a real survival situation you need a knife that WILL NOT FAIL PERIOD!!!!

On to Nosses tests. :)

Personally I believe they are very valuable because his tests show just how much punishment the knives can take before failing. That is very valuable information for someone like me because I really use my blades hard.

Now for someone who just uses their knife to cut up meat or maybe some rope then a $5 knife will do the job.

Oh well I am starting to ramble too much. LOL
 
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Ankerson said:
Now for someone who just uses their knife to cut up meat or maybe some rope then a $5 knife will do the job.

Oh well I am starting to ramble too much. LOL
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Well crap:grumpy:, you mean to tell me during all my time as a butcher, owning a game processing buisness, hunting, etc...I could have been getting by with a $5 knife:eek: Man I could have saved ALOT of money had I knew this:o






:p:D
 
I am cool with Noss breaking knives and whatnot because that's his deal. I must suffer from imagination failure though.

I cannot envision myself wailing away on any knife with a sledge under circumstances that would be remotely realistic. Someone mentioned cutting their way out of a concrete bunker, I have yet to see a knife pounded through rebar reinforced concrete, but maybe I missed it. Also cutting one's way out of a presumably wrecked 4x4 was mentioned. If the glass is intact or gone and the door is wedged shut go through there. If the entire roof is pancaked so that the windows are not an escape, you won't likely have the room to work with to "cut your way out."

I see Mors Kochanski making due with a Mora, Les Stroud getting by in all manner of situations with a multi-tool, (though both situationally turn to axes like the intelligent outdoorsmen they are), and latter day "frontiersmen" in South America getting it done with cheap, stamped out, machetes and wonder what all of this back and forth is really about.

Because it is not about the intelligent use of tools in a "survival" situation.
 
Ken44 said:
Well crap:grumpy:, you mean to tell me during all my time as a butcher, owning a game processing buisness, hunting, etc...I could have been getting by with a $5 knife:eek: Man I could have saved ALOT of money had I knew this:o






:p:D
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I thought it was kinda funny really. LOL :D
 
and wonder what all of this back and forth is really about.

Because it is not about the intelligent use of tools in a "survival" situation.
Reply With Quote

It's about one point of veiw wanting the opposing point of of view to surrender. That's all.....;)
Just like several other threads running in "General". Folks can't just state their opinion and move on, they have to be RIGHT!!!!:eek: Funny Stuff...



:D
 
syltetoy, the only one in this whole damnable thread to bring up anything even vaguely about racism is you.....so please be good enough to keep the touchy-feely muck out of here.

And before you whinge at me for being racist....I have a touch of the tar-brush myself, (as well as just about everything else).
 
syltetoy said:
From what I saw during the test Cold Steel 1055 has excellent edge retension, and from my own experience chopping with Cold Steel 1055 the edge holds beyond my expectations and needs. I wish Noss would do some dedication edge retention tests to show if the premium steels really do what they say or is it just another waste of money. I wonder what blade steel the meat and fish "industry" uses? I wonder if they use S30V blades in the comercial meat and fish industry where edge retention is time and money.

I also believe the heat treatment and edge design is more important than the type of steel.

Why does Mora of Sweden and Victorinox not go with the latest super steel, could be there is not enough performance increase to justify the cost.
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If 1055 works for you that is good.
1055 does not work for me no matter what heat treat or edge profile is used.

I don't trust Noss to understand the variables of edge retention testing.
We have already noted the non-reproducibility and non-science basis of the toughness work he does.

The meat and fish industries do not use S30V. The meat and fish industry do not need great edge retention, as that is factory work with knife sharpeners easily available. Mostly the meat and fish industries use knives with blades of 420HC. 420HC holds an edge quite a bit better than 1055.

High end Moras have laminated steel blades. And even the least expensive Moras have steel with better edge retention and higher hardness than 1055. BTW, just how well did a Mora with its perform in Noss's trials?
 
knarfeng said:
If 1055 works for you that is good.
1055 does not work for me no matter what heat treat or edge profile is used.

I don't trust Noss to understand the variables of edge retention testing.
We have already noted the non-reproducibility and non-science basis of the toughness work he does.

The meat and fish industries do not use S30V. The meat and fish industry do not need great edge retention, as that is factory work with knife sharpeners easily available. Mostly the meat and fish industries use knives with blades of 420HC. 420HC holds an edge quite a bit better than 1055.

High end Moras have laminated steel blades. And even the least expensive Moras have steel with better edge retention and higher hardness than 1055. BTW, just how well did a Mora with its perform in Noss's trials?
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Argumentative and inconclusive, where are your facts?
 
Why continue?
Choosing a knife is a compromise. No design does everything well. You have to figure out what you are most likely to need the knife to do, then go for those properties.

Some folks have decided it is more important to carry a knife that they can hammer through a concrete wall than a knife that stays sharp. This is not a problem. There are knives that will do that.

Some folks have decided they are more likely to need a knife that stays sharp than a knife they can hammer through concrete wall. Still not a problem. There are knives that will do that too while possessing a somewhat lower level of toughness.

Two different needs. Two different opinions. Never the twain shall meet.

It's only a problem if one side or the other decides that only their own need is valid.

As for the Green Beret knife. Apparently the Green Beret folks, when evaluating their wants, decided upon a somewhat greater emphasis on edge retention than on pounding through concrete. I wouldn't know as I am not a Green Beret. (and neither are most who post in these threads.) But in one of these innumerable threads, one of the military gents who originally evaluated the knife voiced that they considered the Green Beret knife to be tough enough for their uses after they thoroughly tested it. If it is not tough enough for yours, that's OK by me.
 
knarfeng said:
Why continue?
Choosing a knife is a compromise. No design does everything well. You have to figure out what you are most likely to need the knife to do, then go for those properties.

Some folks have decided it is more important to carry a knife that they can hammer through a concrete wall than a knife that stays sharp. This is not a problem. There are knives that will do that.

Some folks have decided they are more likely to need a knife that stays sharp than a knife they can hammer through concrete wall. Still not a problem. There are knives that will do that too while possessing a somewhat lower level of toughness.

Two different needs. Two different opinions. Never the twain shall meet.

It's only a problem if one side or the other decides that only their own need is valid.

As for the Green Beret knife. Apparently the Green Beret folks, when evaluating their wants, decided upon a somewhat greater emphasis on edge retention than on pounding through concrete. I wouldn't know as I am not a Green Beret. (and neither are most who post in these threads.) But in one of these innumerable threads, one of the military gents who originally evaluated the knife voiced that they considered the Green Beret knife to be tough enough for their uses after they thoroughly tested it. If it is not tough enough for yours, that's OK by me.
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Perhaps, but then perhaps not. ;)

The problem I am having is that BOTH the Green Beret AND Project One broke on the same test and in almost the same spot. That test wasn't even really hard as Noss wasn't really hitting the blades hard at all, he was just tapping them. Both of those knives broke doing something that MOST fixed blades should be able to do easy and have. Then he went and did the EXACT same test with a $15 CS GI Tanto and it handled it easy.

OK now, two $300 knives broke very easy and one is marketed as a COMBAT knife and they couldn't even pass that simple little test that a little Cheap $15 GI Tanto can do over and over.

That is Pathetic really as a combat grade knife should be able to take much more punishment than that and at $300+ on top of it... :rolleyes:

The CS SRK is marketed as a COMBAT knife and carried by the US Navy Seals and it passed that test easy and it doesn't cost anything near $300.
 
I use the (Frost) clipper everyday in the kitchen. Decent but I bought a box of the 115 blades and fitted them with handles and they are much better for field work and keeping in the car. The laminated Frost Moras are great to work with but I have managed to bend one.

I have a box of the laminated blades that I will one day get round to fitting out, but as stainless is more convenient it could be a while until I return to them.

Take the “beat it with a hammer” test they would bend as they make poor levers. Todate, still no one has actually validated this as an equal and effective test with real life relevance. So far, if I hit a CRK with a hammer hard enough can I break it? Yep and that is the sum of it.
 
Tim-Gabz said:
I use the (Frost) clipper everyday in the kitchen. Decent but I bought a box of the 115 blades and fitted them with handles and they are much better for field work and keeping in the car. The laminated Frost Moras are great to work with but I have managed to bend one.

I have a box of the laminated blades that I will one day get round to fitting out, but as stainless is more convenient it could be a while until I return to them.

Take the “beat it with a hammer” test they would bend as they make poor levers. Todate, still no one has actually validated this as an equal and effective test with real life relevance. So far, if I hit a CRK with a hammer hard enough can I break it? Yep and that is the sum of it.
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I think most people are really missing the whole point.

The point is toughness and a Combat knife has to be tough, the CR Green Beret and Project One are not tough knives at all if you can break them by tapping them with a hammer.

Yes I said tapping because that's what Noss was doing, he wasn't pounding on them.

For the $300 you could buy 3 CS SRKs or 20 CS GI Tantos that are tough knives. (Or many of a lot of other options as well)
 
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Ankerson said:
I think most people are really missing the whole point.

The point is toughness and a Combat knife has to be tough, the CR Green Beret and Project one are not tough knives at all if you can break them but tapping them with a hammer.

Yes I said tapping because that's what Noss was doing, he wasn't pounding on them.
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The point is that there is absolutely no validity in the tests what so ever. The variations in results from non existent test conditions would have varied considerably from tightening the holding device more or less creates a lever differential of several factors. Hit the blade in a different manner or angle and the same occurs.

There are several easy ways to compare that is to do the full set of tests that MS do then do a survey in the field.
 
Tim-Gabz said:
The point is that there is absolutely no validity in the tests what so ever. The variations in results from non existent test conditions would have varied considerably from tightening the holding device more or less creates a lever differential of several factors. Hit the blade in a different manner or angle and the same occurs.

There are several easy ways to compare that is to do the full set of tests that MS do then do a survey in the field.
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I hope you really don't believe that..... :rolleyes:
 
Poor Chris Reeve, the repercussion of not thoroughly testing that Green Beret, Project 1 clunker will probably be in his epitaph?
 
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