Chris Reeve knives on (knifetests.com)

[no-one]

Somehow I suspect that most have lost sight of the fact that knives are made for cutting, if you want to beat piss and pick-handles out of something ...buy an axe or hammer.

 

[savagesicslayer]

I can say one thing for NOSS.His tests have made for some great reading on these forums.I never get tired of reading this stuff.

 

[sleevefullofaces]

It is funny to see the guys carrying a minimal amount of gear come running when they need something.

It's funny to see the guys who bring the kitchen sink sweating and breathing heavy instead of enjoying their hike.

I'm not an ultra-light hiker but only haul gear I need. Bringing a folder and hatchet is ridiculous since my FB and multi-tool work equally well.

 

[LorenzoL]

And do you really need to shave with a camp knive, after having made hundreds of cuts through wood? Or even with a folder? We, knives users, don't really need edge retention. Edge retention is for tools, drills, etc involved in high capacities production processes, or for dies that have to be used hundreds of thousands times. Not for knives. As you say, hardness means brittleness, and very expansive high speed tool steels are precisly designed to be both hard, tough, and with great edge retention. We don't really need this. Simple carbon steels have proven to be both tough, having and keeping a good edge, and to be cheap. And what's the deal if twice in your trip, you have to take your sharpening stone and hone your knife? Are you too busy to do that, or is this tiny diamond stone too heavy to be taken in your backpack? For a camp knife, toughness is lot more important than edge holding. And for a pocket knife, folder or fixed whatever, good edge, even razor edge, can be obtained with cheap and simple well heat-treated and well ground carbon steel.

Anyone thinking it's stupid to pound a knife spine with a steel mallet just to test how tough it is, to be logical you also should avoid powder metallurgy steels and such, as their capabilities is far above what is strictly needed.

And your point is... that we should all carry shitty camp knives?

 

[Finedges]

With an unbiased mind, I can understand easily why the knife broke as opposed to other knives which didn't on the same test. S30V is harder than SK5 or 1095 whatever. If you hit both with a metal hammer S30V will break first. For an outdoor survival knife, give me the steel that gives, for cutting rope, twine, cardboard, give me the harder steel. Very easy to grasp for me.

 

[hardheart]

A boxer can beat on a heavy bag for hours without breaking his hand, but all it takes is one swing where he doesn't punch the bag just right and he breaks his 5th metacarpal.

Hitting any knife with a 3lb hammer is extremely idiotic. And just because a certain knife survived one idiot's test doesn't mean that it'll hold up again, or under some other idiot's test, or that it'll ever not be idiotic.

Hitting a knife on the spine with a 3lb hammer makes as much sense as chopping through a cinder block ala Cliff Stamp.

That's because hitting things with your fist is idiotic. I don't see too many boxers/accomplished martial artists & fighters being called idiots to their face Maybe it's fear, or maybe it's respect of skill. Either way, you shouldn't hit things with your fist because you can break bones. So, you also shouldn't hit knives with hammers because they can break. Still, there are guys that can hits things with their fists at 1000 pounds of force, and there are knives that can be hit with hammers without breaking. Just because you shouldn't do it (hit things, jump out of planes, tame tigers, etc) doesn't mean it can't be done. When dozens of knives survive a test of thousands of accumulated blows of no greater precision from one test to the other, the knives that broke are the outliers. I personally put no value on the whole "fix the force of the blow and the angle of delivery" Screw that, it's a hand tool being abused by hand. If we did everything to mechanical precision, then even a paring knife out of Wal-mart would be overbuilt.

Of course, some mysterious figure is paying Noss incredible amounts of money to skew results. They also have a mind control device that prevents every single detractor to ever have viewed any of his videos to merely repeat the test and refute his results.

 

[cali]

With an unbiased mind, I can understand easily why the knife broke as opposed to other knives which didn't on the same test. S30V is harder than SK5 or 1095 whatever.

CRK One Piece Knives are made of A2 steel, 55-57 HRC, CRK fixed blade knives made of S30V are soft too, about 55-57 HRC. They are softer than lot of knives made of 1095 (58-60 HRC).

Another One Piece Knife in two pieces (not mine):
http://www.knives.pl/forum/index.php/topic,57055
It broke when owner was chopping some wood.

 

[Madnumforce]

And your point is... that we should all carry shitty camp knives?

Why cheap and carbon steel would mean shitty? Maybe pounding knives spines and detroying them is debatable, but sure this prejudice is not worth of an informed knife user.
Some say "so much toughness is not necessary"... to be logical, they should also say: "so much edge retention is not necessary", and as a logical result: "so high priced high speed powder metallurgy tool steels are not necessary". It's just about coherence. But i think it's stupid to say "less is enough", and as it's good to know some knives have steels designed to withstand thousands of cuts keeping the razor edge, it's good to know some knives are strong enough to be pounded with a hammer, and that's what Noss tests are intended for. Everyone have his preferences and choices, but it's good to have the most informations possible.

And for the Project 1 and such, the answer may in fact be quite simple. The whole knife is machined out a big steel piece, that as not been as much laminated as most thinner usual blade steels are. The fibers of the steel are certainly less oriented than in a standard blade, and it's more likely to have small inclusions, bubbles and weakness. Considering how a blade is thin, it can make a huge difference, especially with treatments as "hard" as quenching. But for the Green Beret, this explanation can't stand.

 

[me2]

Batoning wood with a fixed blade is not abuse. If my home made M2 Puukko with a spine of 1/16" can handle it, a $300+ blade of 1/4" A2 or S30V should be able to as well. I used a 4 lb hammer on some 1 x 10 and the spine creased the hammer face. No chipping, no dulling that I could detect. And at 63-65 HRc, I'm pretty sure the M2 will hold an edge better too.

"Hitting a knife on the spine with a 3lb hammer makes as much sense as chopping through a cinder block ala Cliff Stamp."

To be fair, the maker did request that test, and since his knife did fairly well, it was applied to others for comparison.

 

[Leatherface]

I did a comparitive test of hammers.

None of them passed my "tomato slicing" test! 100% failure rate!

I guess that proves you just can't get a functional hammer anymore. Disappointing.

yea but it can spread the heck out of peanut butter

Ahh send in the clowns

 

[Tostig]

I wonder if... the blade that had broke would have been a less adored brand , lets say for example , the CTD rough use knife , would there be such an outpour of grief and silliness ?

Like I said a a couple days ago , IMO it is the fact that a beloved brand's knife broke under the tests that folks are getting so upset.

an odd example
A buddy pours me a glass of excellent scotch , aged to perfection , 400$ a bottle... after pouring it over the ice a cockroach is found to be floating in my drink , with righteous indignation my buddy insists the roach must have allready been there since theres no way it could have came from this bottle of scotch!

 

[razorsdescent]

Wow bring up the Noss tests and watch otherwise rational (and respectable, some of these people ive grown to really respect the opinions of) People fall to peices. anyone who thinks this isnt because of the poor perormance of the chris reeve is pretty much kidding themselves.

This has all been done to death.

before noss even started this the argument it was over cliff stamp: http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/green_beret.html

Chris reeve knives are more britle than some other fixed blades in the same catagory of knife. Big deal so a chris reeve breaks when it gets hit witha hammer in the spine, i dont do that with my reeve knives. id do it with my busses though

I think a knif eis a tool thats versatile in its uses at leas thte types of knives that noss tests i dont always carry a bunch of tools with me, im a soldier i carry enoguh stuff as it is if my multi-tool doesnt have a can opener i use my knife. if a crate needs opening my knife pries it apart. i don t think this is abuse hell if im in th eus im probably doing whatever need sto be done with an old ontario rat-3 and its only 1/8 of an inch thick i expect alot more from a knife thats 3/16 inch thick. yet again i dont think this is unreasonable


Hey Noss thanks for breaking expensive knives so that we dont have to. Busse put their money where their mouth is if i remember correctly. also i cant wait to see what happens when you start with folders. There are people that are gonna disagree with any knife test because people on this forum are so passionate about knives they begin to take things like this personally. I will continue to buy reeve knives and love them but i can admit that the reeve fixed blades have a pattern of breaking under heavy use.

 

[Tostig]

There are people that are gonna disagree with any knife test because people on this forum are so passionate about knives they begin to take things like this personally

Which , in itself is silly.. The personal thing that is. IMO

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

And do you really need to shave with a camp knive, after having made hundreds of cuts through wood? Or even with a folder? We, knives users, don't really need edge retention. Edge retention is for tools, drills, etc involved in high capacities production processes, or for dies that have to be used hundreds of thousands times. Not for knives. As you say, hardness means brittleness, and very expansive high speed tool steels are precisly designed to be both hard, tough, and with great edge retention. We don't really need this. Simple carbon steels have proven to be both tough, having and keeping a good edge, and to be cheap. And what's the deal if twice in your trip, you have to take your sharpening stone and hone your knife? Are you too busy to do that, or is this tiny diamond stone too heavy to be taken in your backpack? For a camp knife, toughness is lot more important than edge holding. And for a pocket knife, folder or fixed whatever, good edge, even razor edge, can be obtained with cheap and simple well heat-treated and well ground carbon steel.

Anyone thinking it's stupid to pound a knife spine with a steel mallet just to test how tough it is, to be logical you also should avoid powder metallurgy steels and such, as their capabilities is far above what is strictly needed.

Please temper what you say to be from your needs and experiences. Your life is not mine, nor is it anothers in Australia. WHat is needed by you is NOT what may be required by another. One example from my life of why edge retention is an issue with some. I worked in an arctic meat processing plant, filleting around 2000# of Char per hour. That is a lot of fish per hour at 4-9 pounds each (200-400 per hour). If I did not use the best knife for the job (grip and edge retention) I would get home much later and be much more tired by the end of the day. As the fish run lasted a month the excess work that I would have to do would increase wear and tear on my body, allow me less downtime for healing/relaxing after work, and frustrate me to no end, as well as incurring extra costs for my employer from longer hours at work, downtime as a result of injuries/ sick time taken off, poorer cuts due to dull knives, decreased profits......

When one works a knife 10-18 hours a day in a precise manner things like edge retention, toughness (cutting through bones) and proper ergonomics make a HUGE difference to the user. It is a much different than one who only uses their knife once a day to make lunch.

I reiterate for you, please do not use absolutes here as you can be shown that your OPINION is just that.

Respectfully
Kris

P.S.
Your condescending attitude in bold and italics about the sharpener was unnecessary to the discussion and I for one take issue with it.:thumbdn:

 

[Madnumforce]

Please temper what you say to be from your needs and experiences. Your life is not mine, nor is it anothers in Australia. WHat is needed by you is NOT what may be required by another. One example from my life of why edge retention is an issue with some. I worked in an arctic meat processing plant, filleting around 2000# of Char per hour. That is a lot of fish per hour at 4-9 pounds each (200-400 per hour). If I did not use the best knife for the job (grip and edge retention) I would get home much later and be much more tired by the end of the day. As the fish run lasted a month the excess work that I would have to do would increase wear and tear on my body, allow me less downtime for healing/relaxing after work, and frustrate me to no end, as well as incurring extra costs for my employer from longer hours at work, downtime as a result of injuries/ sick time taken off, poorer cuts due to dull knives, decreased profits......

When one works a knife 10-18 hours a day in a precise manner things like edge retention, toughness (cutting through bones) and proper ergonomics make a HUGE difference to the user. It is a much different than one who only uses their knife once a day to make lunch.

I reiterate for you, please do not use absolutes here as you can be shown that your OPINION is just that.

Respectfully
Kris

P.S.
Your condescending attitude in bold and italics about the sharpener was unnecessary to the discussion and I for one take issue with it.:thumbdn:

What you mention here is a professionnal purpose, for which things have to be optimised. In this case, it does in fact make a difference, cause time is money, and every single move that can be avoided or made easier is time and effort saved . But i was speaking with leisure use in mind, when you have time to spend for your own, etc... Of course, if you plan an extreme trip to Himalaya, you need also "extreme" gear, but i was focused on the average basic trip, which, i hope you'll agree with me, need no extra edge holding knife, nor knife to break open a tank with. My point was simply that Noss tests are usefull to show the real toughness of knives, in a destructive process that few of us would try. It was something that needed to be done, to make your choice of knife with as much informations as possible. That was an answer to those who say these tests are stupid... going their way, car crash tests are also stupid.

I'm sorry if you felt offended by the way i turned my sentence, english isn't my mother tongue, and it's not that easy to translate the "tone" of a sentence. I did not mean to lack respect to anybody, and i apologize if any one felt so.

By the way, i'm curious to know what knife you finally used for your job?

 

[no-one]

Madnumforce is right about the intent of the sentences being hard to translate from French to English.....I have Frog relatives and I generally feel like beating them to death when they speak to me....they do not mean any harm, it is just that the meaning is hard to portray.

 

[Sputnic]

The Knives Broke fast, yes. But I bet they'd cut Tatami Omote very well for the size. Plus they are beautiful.

 

[syltetoy]

What you mention here is a professionnal purpose, for which things have to be optimised. In this case, it does in fact make a difference, cause time is money, and every single move that can be avoided or made easier is time and effort saved . But i was speaking with leisure use in mind, when you have time to spend for your own, etc... Of course, if you plan an extreme trip to Himalaya, you need also "extreme" gear, but i was focused on the average basic trip, which, i hope you'll agree with me, need no extra edge holding knife, nor knife to break open a tank with. My point was simply that Noss tests are usefull to show the real toughness of knives, in a destructive process that few of us would try. It was something that needed to be done, to make your choice of knife with as much informations as possible. That was an answer to those who say these tests are stupid... going their way, car crash tests are also stupid.

I'm sorry if you felt offended by the way i turned my sentence, english isn't my mother tongue, and it's not that easy to translate the "tone" of a sentence. I did not mean to lack respect to anybody, and i apologize if any one felt so.

By the way, i'm curious to know what knife you finally used for your job?

What an excellent comparison of the necessity and validity of the Noss Knife Test to a Car Crash Test as none of us would crash our cars to test them but its nice to know they wouldn’t disintegrate if we have an accident.

 

[burned_pretzel]

Wow, never knew there was so much hate here for that site. If you don't like it, don't watch it. It isn't your knife he's breaking.

 

[LorenzoL]

Wow, never knew there was so much hate here for that site. If you don't like it, don't watch it. It isn't your knife he's breaking.

No, it is just somebody's (Chris Reeve's) reputation.