Cold Steel= flat out liars

LOL Threads like this give CS free exposure. They probably read them and laugh. The advertising they do is the same as in any other industry as has already been pointed out and it sells a lot of knives. They make great knives for what you pay (Or have them made) for them. Are they the best? Probably not but you do not pay $400 for them either. Most people are not going to stop buying the knives they sell because they exposed some felon. So just keep giving them free exposure. LOL
 
SlamFire said:
3Guardsmen said:
Manufacturers build things, whereas marketing firms market things. Can you at least sort of understand?
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From the prospective of a broom pusher type, this makes sense. Broom pusher wants a fried egg. He could cook the egg, or go the diner. Broom pusher goes to the Diner and orders an egg. Life is simple. Broom pusher has no idea of lifecycle management. From concept, design, production and support.

Life in the Kitchen is a lot more complicated, and the Guy managing the Diner has to order commodities, train the staff, pay the staff, pay the rent, balance schedules, ensure that everyone is working and coordinating, and plan for tomorrow. New recipes, worn out equipment, anticipate the market. Broom pusher never sees this. Broom pusher just orders an egg, and gets an egg. Life is simple, an egg, sunny side up.

So why should everybody own their own knife factory? There are risks in owning and operating your own little factory. Capital equipment, safety, human factors, zoning, transportation, environment, crooked politicians, material, local laws and labor unions that may go on strikes. And then there is the cost of buying your own factory. Broom pushers can understand the $3.00 for that egg, but how many can dig down into their pocket and come up with 20 or 30 million dollars to spend before their first knife is made?

Then there is the learning curve. Why build your own knife factory when there are cutlery manufacturers out there who have skilled people and an enormous amount of money invested in equipment. ? Building fine knives is a skill, and it is a different skill than, lets say, building brooms for broom pushers. Why not start out with someone who knows what they are doing?

What a Broom pusher type does not understand either is that there are risks in subcontract management. Many a better man than a Broom Pusher has gone bust because the subcontractor could not fulfill the contract. To attempt to describe what it takes to build a successful subcontractor relationship would be tiresome, but even if you have a successful design, getting it built is a very difficult endeavor . You really have to scope out the skills, facilities, understanding, past, present and future of your subcontractor. And then, you have to bring big, big, dollars with you. More money than any Broom Pusher could ever take to Vegas, and once it is down on the table, well just hope the wheel comes up your color.

As we have seen, Cold Steel had a skilled subcontractor, Camillus, and that manufacturer went bust. If you read the press reports, Cold Steel had several million dollars of their equipment in that factory when it shut down. Equipment is not free, and when equipment is not making money, you are losing money. The tax man still wants taxes on the unappreciated value of the equipment, and the bank still wants their loan money, and all that money in raw materials, finished materials, was just sitting on the docks.

Make or Buy, that is a business decision.

But what really is shown in this thread is that no matter what Cold Steel does, the Clan of Cold Steel Haters will revile and hate Cold Steel. They simply manufacture their own reasons to justify their hate. I suspect their biggest problem is that Lynn Thompson does not get down on his knees and kiss their little derrieres every day. Well it ain’t going to happen. They will have to live out their insignificant lives as howling voices on the internet. :yawn:
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Slamfire,
First off, you quoted one sentence of mine, where I was arguing a point, with Shecky, that Cold Steel and Spyderco have significantly different business models, and you assisted me greatly in proving my point. Thank you.;)

Your last paragraph is fairly typical of your posts, low post count not withstanding. You choose to insult a majority of the more experienced and educated knife buyers on these forums who are willing to call a spade a spade. Congratulations.:rolleyes:

Regards,
3G
 
Hey?! is this another Cold Steal is a buncha liars thread? says the Voyager owner.John79 don't take this "wrong" we sorta umm...know bout ole Lynn.As i said i own a voyager and it's ok but my time here at BF has caused me to not own any more CS products.
 
3Guardsmen said:
Then don't participate in it, or better yet, if you do participate, make sure people can at least sort of understand what it is you're trying to say.;)

Regards,
3G
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All it boils down to is peoples feelings getting hurt. O no they think they are better than Busse or Strider. If you guys don't like them then don't buy them. I just understand why there is so many crybabies here. They don't look at other things that their dollars support that are immoral or unethical but Cold Steel is evil in there eye. Nobody throws a fit when Ford or Chevy claim they have more power than the other. It is just a bunch of crybaby Cold Steel haters just like the Strider haters. I don't like Strider not because of their politics but because of there prices and designs which is how it should be.
 
ashtxsniper said:
All it boils down to is peoples feelings getting hurt. O no they think they are better than Busse or Strider. If you guys don't like them then don't buy them. I just understand why there is so many crybabies here. They don't look at other things that their dollars support that are immoral or unethical but Cold Steel is evil in there eye. Nobody throws a fit when Ford or Chevy claim they have more power than the other. It is just a bunch of crybaby Cold Steel haters just like the Strider haters. I don't like Strider not because of their politics but because of there prices and designs which is how it should be.
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A couple of questions for you: 1) Is this or is it not a forum to discuss knives? 2) Do you believe in freedom of speech? 3) Did the intent of this thread have anything to do with Busse or Strider (or Spyderco for that matter)?

A suggestion for you: If a subject annoys you to the point you're willing to call names, bow out of it.

Regards,
3G
 
After following up on the past days posts, I want a beer and some eggs served by a bikini clad lass...perferably a lass willing to engage in some asshatery.
 
Maybe we, as a community and take a step back from what knife manufacturers are advertising. I think we hang too much on what figures of the knife world say or write.

I used to play a lot of golf. One of the big things now is grooves, many companies have grooves at the legal limit but still companies claim that they have grooves that are 35% bigger than all others on the market. Does any golfer complain that the company that made their wedges lied and really doesn't have bigger grooves than other wedges?


Or Nike's new golf shoes were they claim you can add 5-10 yards to your shots. A friend of mine bought these shoes and still hits retard short. :p

And he still likes them.
 
I am actually shocked that there is a debate about the "morality" of certain types/models of knives on this forum
I had no idea that was an issue
What's wrong with The Sharkie?
Call it what you will but that is marketing genius
For 5.99 I'll probably end up buying one just for the novelty factor (I'll put it right next to my box of Black Talon Hollow Points and my If I Did It by O.J Simpson book in my display case)
What's wrong with The Steel Tiger?
The dude is just filling a demand for people that like "evil" looking knives
Since when is it against the law or morals to market to american machismo?
(My blade is 1/2" longer than yours!!! Mine has a paracord handle wrap JUST IN CASE!!..)
It's the same with guns
If you see a Ruger Mini-14 with a plain wood stock you think "hey cool gun to have on a ranch....for the cigh yotes"
If you see that same mini-14 with a black folding stock, a flash suppressor (muzzlebrake...whatever), a 20 round magazine you think "hey cool gun to kill people with"
They both shoot the same caliber
It's the beginning of the end when the PC Police start regulating knives based on appearance and marketing campaigns....Wasn't that part of the Intra-Tech 9/ 101 Tower Massacre lawsuit? Some ad they claimed "marketed" to criminals??

The thing is though that hes a plague on the knife community.
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That is a bold statement to make about knife manufacturer

We need quality knives marketed in a manner that does not provide ammo for the liberals.
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So now my choices as a knife consumer are dictated by the liberals viewpoints?
That sucks.....

If you don't have a problem doing business with a company that lies, uses greasy advertising techniques and exists on mostly hype to sell their products then that's ok
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You should be worried about YOU getting "ripped off"/cheated by a company!!
Have faith in Economic Man to make rational decisions
Don't lose sleep going on some crusade trying to spread the word about the Cold Steel Big Fraud Charade Game
Let the chumps fall for the BS
It's their money..not yours
 
3Guardsmen said:
Slamfire,
First off, you quoted one sentence of mine, where I was arguing a point, with Shecky, that Cold Steel and Spyderco have significantly different business models, and you assisted me greatly in proving my point. Thank you.;)

Your last paragraph is fairly typical of your posts, low post count not withstanding. You choose to insult a majority of the more experienced and educated knife buyers on these forums who are willing to call a spade a spade. Congratulations.:rolleyes:

Regards,
3G
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He also was actually able to accuse people who dislike Cold Steel of "Playa' Hatin'," which I found pretty impressive.

That is, it's not that more than a few members of the forum don't want to be associated with Cold Steel or its' image. It's not that they haven't seen anything produced by Cold Steel that they would want to buy.

It's because they're Player Haters, and they're Hating on Cold Steel.
 
I think that one of the main objections to Cold Steel is the fact that their knives are largely made overseas, particularly in China. This outsourcing of labor is seen by some Americans as the root of a lot of our nation's suffering, as U.S. workers lose jobs to foreigners overseas and across the borders, and then also through immigration from Mexico and other nations. As business owners get richer as their profit margins increase due to the cheaper labor, U.S. workers get poorer as they are forced from the skilled and semi-skilled labor jobs into the menial service industry (can you say, "Welcome to McDonalds! Do you want fries with that?"?) Now many Americans are having to work for Wal-Mart, selling cheap imported goods to other Americans who now have incomes so low due to job losses, that they now have no choice but to buy the cheap imported goods, perpetuating the decline of American manufacturing even further. As more and more merchants switch from buying American products to buying the cheaper imports in order to compete with Wal-Mart, it reduces the volume of units that U.S. manufacturers produce, thus reducing their economy of volume production, and raising the per unit cost and retail price even higher, reducing their competitiveness in the market even further. This may have been exactly what caused the Camillus executives to need to cut labor costs, which then resulted in the strike and loss of production and cash flow, from which the company was unable to recover from. The result? The end of an American manufacturer and the unemployment of American skilled and semi-skilled laborers, and more business for the foreign knife manufacturers.

When we Americans purchase foreign products it initiates a chain reaction in our economy that has very negative repercussions for ourselves. There is a saying about being penny-wise and dollar-foolish. When we try to save money by buying cheap foreign goods, we do not save money, but cut our own throats.

For the chinese view on this, watch these videos.

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmANxHJ6s9M>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxJdEqaCcGc>

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7wsBNqM8AQ>

I find it ironic that the U.S. spent so much money and energy fighting against Chinese Communists in the Korean War/Conflict and the Cold War, and now we are sending them billions, perhaps trillions of our dollars each year, and destroying our economy to employ their people. If you ask me, our politicians have sold us out.
 
BRASMAN said:
LOL Threads like this give CS free exposure. They probably read them and laugh. The advertising they do is the same as in any other industry as has already been pointed out and it sells a lot of knives. They make great knives for what you pay (Or have them made) for them. Are they the best? Probably not but you do not pay $400 for them either. Most people are not going to stop buying the knives they sell because they exposed some felon. So just keep giving them free exposure. LOL
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No, but they just might stop after reading enough posts/threads like yours, which seem to me to point out your lack of satisfaction with some of the "great knives" they make:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4715746&postcount=9

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485161

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4739374&postcount=16

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4736771&postcount=3

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4823387&postcount=16


Regards,
3G
 
Although Touche touches on an interesting overall economic theory for the US, it doesn't play well for hating Cold Steel. Cold Steel does outsource...like all the other "makers" but they also used Camilus for many knives. To conclude one is hating Cold Steel due to Camilus's failure is illogical.

Knife Afi's dislike Cold Steel for exactly what they say they dislike...their marketing and perceived or real ethical issues.
 
zenheretic said:
After following up on the past days posts, I want a beer and some eggs served by a bikini clad lass...perferably a lass willing to engage in some asshatery.
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You can do that but only if you don't claim it was the best asshatery in the country or try to play down someone else's asshatery. We don't want to have anyones feelings hurt here. Violations will result in loss of recess time and additional time out.:rolleyes: You will also receive a trip to principle 3guardsmans office for a tongue lashing. :rolleyes:
 
BRASMAN said:
I guess I would ask myself if what He said was true or not. If it was it may be that the moral problem is with someone else. Someone either did lie about military service or they did not and they either are a convicted felon or they are not. If all that was false then the owner of Cold Steel is a snake but if it was true the owner of Cold Steel is no different than people who post threads about how they do not like "Over the Top videos" that are not illegal. If some one makes knives that do perform that much better then they could very easy expose Cold Steel by testing there knives next to the most comperable Cold Steel knife. It would be a hoot.
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First off if your so big on not judging people based on their actions why would someones criminal convictions bother you? The person in question has in my opinion a fine record. When i was up at the 75th ranger regiment, people knew who he was, and what bat he was in. some of them carried his knives. so i know he didnt lie about his carreer. its easy for people like lynn who have never served to look at a peice of paper and make a snap judgement.


Funny you should mention exposure in that method. Mr Busse decided to try and take cold steal up on that offer thinking that he really wanted a competition and wasnt just blowing smoke. Cold steal weaseled out of it. tricksy hobbitses.

And statements about their price range on this have also been inaccurate.

http://www.coldsteel.com/16absj.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-trail-master-series.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/60ss.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/14bbcj.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/konjo.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/13d1.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/60bt.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/60h.html
http://www.coldsteel.com/60bs.html

The list goes on.

What value.

Why for that much you could get a busse a strider,or a hand forged knife, for the folders a sebenza or hinderer or smf.

If you want value you can get a nice knife for cheap from a company with some integrity such as scrapyard or ranger knives.

And do peopel honestly read this stuff? :Our company President, Lynn Thompson has long been an admirer of Finland and its people. As a sixth grade student, when he did a report on this tiny, but fiercely independent Scandinavian nation, he discovered the Puukko, the national knife of Finland. Eventually he met and married a Finnish girl from a city in the Michigan Upper Peninsula called Escanaba.

Why buy a Trail Master®? That’s simple. Because it is, without a doubt, the most knife for the money ever commercially built! In terms of sharpness, edge holding and strength, it will out perform—by a wide margin—any factory made knife we know of and 99% of all hand forged knives as well! We know we’re “going out on a limb” with that statement, but since 1987 we have challenged the industry to make a better knife and yet, to this day, we’ve had no takers. So before you spend your hard earned bucks on one of our competitor’s knives, take a moment to review all the advantages offered by the Cold Steel® Trail Master.

Like its serpent namesake, the Tai Pan® is aggressively fast and deadly. Designed by Lynn C. Thompson in the distinctive “Tanto” style, the Tai Pan® embodies all the best features of a classic dagger while minimizing its shortcomings.

The tai pai is a dagger . How is it also a tanto??? This stuff doesnt just sound rediculous it sounds slightly deranged.


Thank you Mr. Convex.
 
zenheretic said:
Although Touche touches on an interesting overall economic theory for the US, it doesn't play well for hating Cold Steel. Cold Steel does outsource...like all the other "makers" but they also used Camilus for many knives. To conclude one is hating Cold Steel due to Camilus's failure is illogical.

Knife Afi's dislike Cold Steel for exactly what they say they dislike...their marketing and perceived or real ethical issues.
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You have misinterpreted what I wrote. Within my above post there is no conclusion that people are hating Cold Steel due to Camillus's failure. There seemed to be in some past posts some heartburn over the alleged fact that Cold Steel did not have a factory in the U.S., but simply purchased foreign-made knives which it designs and markets. I simply elaborated on the economics of buying imported goods, and its possible impact upon Camillus's financial viability.


I agree with you that many here on BF do dislike CS because of the marketing and ethical issues. :thumbup:
 
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