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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Cold Steel products YOU want to see?
- Thread starter Liam Ryan
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ron finkbeiner jr
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American Lawman xl!
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A 2.5-3" combat Karambit folder. The main issue with folding Karambits is the lock strength with spine strikes, almost everyone uses liner locks, and spine strikes being the nemesis of that design are also central to many techniques. The triad lock is tough enough to take the abuse, and quick closing isn't as critical, so there isn't as much tradeoff as there is with EDC designs. While quick closing isn't a huge deal, quick deployment from a pocket is, and the waveable thumb plate accomplishes that, provided they set it up for the tip up/spine forward mode of carry needed to deploy in a proper reverse grip. Follow similar construction to the new AK47, thick grippy liner-less G10, backspacer and ring reinforced with Aluminum, nice deep finger contours, and sharp traditional hawksbill blade, triad lock, and waveable thumb plate. It would be a far better design than the cheap flea market folders, but stronger, more affordable and available than the Emerson and Fox karambits currently at the top, and hopefully as safe as the fixed blade models that most use in martial arts class.
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Mini bushman for sure!
Ankerson
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If the knives were made in the US they would cost a lot more than they do now so going by what you said you wouldn't be using those either because they would cost too much.....
VG-10 isn't a high end steel at all and S30V isn't all that expensive either these days....
S30V is a nice mid range user steel, VG-10 is a budget steel like AUS-8 and N690.
My point being, if CS used some mid line Swedish steel, which is pretty cheap, but still very good, used G10 slabs, they could get the price to around $60 on the street for models with a 3-3.5 inch blade. Don't think so? Kershaw does it. The BIGGEST loss of money that I'd be willing to bet on is the conversion rate when buying the Japanese AUS8. A number of knife makers, including Sal Glesser/Spyderco have said that some Japanese made (or knves produced with Japanese materials) are pricier than they used to be, because of the exchange rate.
VG-10 is still rated in the lower rung of the high end steels. I haven't really seen anyone compare AUS8 and VG-10 and state that they were in the same class. As far as knife steels that are even in the realm of possibility of being used by CS, meaning any common production steel (Super Blue, S90V/110V, ZDP-189, etc) are higher end steels yes and are at the top level of the performance steels, but I think we can dream about CS producing knives with these steels. So, I guess it is still fun to think about.
I guess though, from the latest CS catalog, they are changing things up. They are using O1 for many of their knives and they have a new 3V model, so I guess it is a step in a good direction.
Ankerson
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CS isn't KAI, not even close as KAI is a HUGE Multinational company.
So now you know all of the inside information about CS, their profit margins etc so you can dictate how much a knife would cost in a steel they never used.........
Nope, VG-10 isn't a high end steel, never was supposed to be either so I am not sure were you are getting your information from, because you are dead wrong.....
Rated by who and compared to what steels..... The alloy content isn't there....
Maybe in someones fantasy world in their own mind VG-10 is a high end steel....
Really?
There was just a whole thread on that exact topic just a couple a weeks ago in General.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...vg10-vs-cold-steel-aus-8?highlight=VG-10+AUS8
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I guess I see them as moving towards a focus on machetes, what with all of the machete-swords they've been coming out with. If they want to focus on that, fine, but then I think they should focus and offer more variety.
If they aren't interested in focusing on them, then I think they should back off and put more work into their knife line.
I am glad to see that they have all of the various machetes that are more affordable versions of some more expensive knives in their line.
I thought that the prices for their machetes in the sales flyer were quite reasonable.
Plus, they are listening to requests for upgraded steel in the forthcoming Warcraft Tanto, which should be the first of a whole new line of knives too.
I thought that the prices for their machetes in the sales flyer were quite reasonable.
Plus, they are listening to requests for upgraded steel in the forthcoming Warcraft Tanto, which should be the first of a whole new line of knives too.
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CS isn't KAI, not even close as KAI is a HUGE Multinational company.
So now you know all of the inside information about CS, their profit margins etc so you can dictate how much a knife would cost in a steel they never used.........
Nope, VG-10 isn't a high end steel, never was supposed to be either so I am not sure were you are getting your information from, because you are dead wrong.....
Rated by who and compared to what steels..... The alloy content isn't there....
Maybe in someones fantasy world in their own mind VG-10 is a high end steel....
Really?
There was just a whole thread on that exact topic just a couple a weeks ago in General.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...vg10-vs-cold-steel-aus-8?highlight=VG-10+AUS8
Well, I don't follow every forum post on here, like I said "I haven't seen it", not that "it didn't exist"
"ATS-34/154CM,VG-10, andS60V are the next group up. It's difficult to make generalizations about ATS-34 and 154-CM -- they are in such widespread use that heat treat varies widely. These steels provide a high-end performance benchmark"
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml
You did mention that "someone's fantasy world" thing. So while I am showing where I get my info, at least provide a link to something else regarding how close AUS8 is to VG-10.
Reason why, is I had a friend of mine who is a chef use a variety of knives (the test is still ongoing). The test was to use a knife for all the kitchen work you need (provided it is cutting tasks) for 1 day. the sharpness would be measured before and after. So far, the steels tested out in order VG-10, CTS-BD1, 14C28N, and AUS8. None of these steels did bad at all, just some did better than others. It would be a good idea that alloy content isn't everything. Yes, it means a lot, but the heat treatment means a lot as well.
In this way, we can say knives with (x steel) were ht'd to (y hardness) with (z method of ht). All are a factor. VG-10 is in the class of higher end steels, not that it is the best steel out there, but 20 years ago, it was high end. Today, there are much more advanced technologies whiich produce steels with much better qualities, but none of these change VG-10'scharacteristics. Also, if it were the user steel we are told and is AUS8 and VG-10 were so alike, price would reflect that.
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Have you looked at their 2013 lineup?
Here are the knives released or due to be released in 2013:
Talwar(plain or serrated)
Talwar XL(plain or serrated)
Recon 1 XL clip point and tanto
Counter Point XL
Marauder
Warcraft Tanto
Chaos Spearpoint
Chaos Tanto
Hideout
Best Pal push dagger(plain and serrated)
redesigned versions of the Bowie, Tokyo, Tanto, and Drop Point Spikes
Code 4 Clip Point, Spear Point, and Tanto(all in plain or combo edge)
Peacemaker 2 and 3
Here's their machetes for 2013:
Royal Kukri
Smatchet
redesigned Barong
All Terrain Chopper
Bowie Machete(which is actually not a new design, nor even a redesign, it's just a reissue of a discontinued old design, so I wouldn't even count it)
I wouldn't call that "focusing" on machetes. Lynn Thompson likes machetes, so they'll continue to put a few out, but knives are their bread and butter, and it's pretty clearly knives they've been focusing on. Also, "all the machete swords" they've been coming out with consists of 4 machetes-kopis, gladius, 2h katana, and cutlass. All the rest of their machetes are pretty much standard machete patterns. And regardless, my original point was just that most people couldn't even tell apart an Enep and a Kurkri as they're extremely similar. I'm actually friends with Miles, the guy who runs Aranyik, and that is a company that sells Thai knives and machetes(handmade by Thai smiths, not factory production), and I can tell you from seeing their eneps that eneps and kukris are pretty much the same pattern and fulfill the same role/purpose.
Aranyik Enep:
And here's Cold Steel's Kukri Machete:
Obviously, the Aranyik is handmade and with different materials, but looking at the 2 blade shapes, you can see why CS might not put out an enep machete when their kukri line is already pretty much an enep machete
Ankerson
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That's a pretty vague test with a ton of variables, and that's not even getting into the knives themselves and the variations of those....
The closest thing to VG-10 is Bohler N690 as in the steels are interchangeable.......
Yes HT and tempering are very important as are blade and edge geometry along with edge refinement and that's why the variables have to be cut down to a min to get any kind of valid result.
If the alloy content isn't there in the steels it just isn't there and nothing can change that fact and there just isn't any magic process that will change it....
As far as price goes the cost for the steel is in the same class for AUS-8, N690 and VG-10....
VG-10 is not a higher end steel, nor is AUS-8 and N690...
The information that you linked to isn't what you think it is and you are misunderstanding it because of that...
CPM 10V and CPM 15V have been around for a long time.... 30+ years (CPM 10V) and 23 years (CPM 15V)...... VG-10 is pot metal compared to those two steels.....
154CM has been around since 1972....... That's 41 years.....
That said the steels like VG-10 and AUS-8 are good steels, or I should say are still good steels just like steels like 440C, 420HC, 1095, D2 etc...
The real problem comes in when people start living in the past and want to believe they are more than they really are compared to the steels that are being used today, the gap is widening more each year in production knives while the steels in the CPM S30V class are for the most part standard today for mainstream production knives.
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Again, no reference. Anyway, some companies advertise VG-10 as a "super steel". It isn't me saying that. I never mentioned AUS8 in that way, but, I would agree that it is a lower class steel. N690, I think it would be on the upper tier of mid steels.
Remember though, Bohler has their own patented powder metallurgy process too. I actually find it nice and refreshing that companies start trying things out of the norm. The thing I do like about Spyderco is that they do offer knives in various steel types (not that I'd buy them if it was a limited production piece), but it gives the knife enthusiasts something to investigate.
As far as my experiment goes, I realize there were lots of variables and there really isn't a need for this to be done in a lab, since the test can be redone anyway if needed. It was more out of my own amusement that anything.
It would still be nice to have CS get a slightly better steel with their blades. It would be great to see something combining the thinness of an endura (maybe not that thin), with a tri-ad lock, a mid- higher end steel, and some G10. To me, that would be my dream folder.
Ankerson
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I know a lot about the Bohler steels....
But anyway it would be nice to see CS move into some higher end steels for their folders as in more mainstream, something in the S30V class would be nice.
However that would raise the cost of the knives, might be too high for some of the CS customers who are used to the lower pricing that 4116 and AUS-8 provide so I am not sure how that would effect their sales and or their current business model.
That could drive their prices into the next level so they would have to tighten up their F&F and other things to bring them up into that price range compared to other knives of other companies that would be in the same price ranges to compete.
IMO that could be a double edged sword so to speak.
They possibly could do it in a few models, but then since CS doesn't manufacturer knives there could be issues with availability because of the said factories time frames and manufacturing ques.
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I do think they should keep producing the knives they have out now, But it would be nice if they had a higher end line. Other companies do, And they seem to be doing great. As it is right now the only thing Cold Steel has in their line that interests me is the Warcraft tanto.
I like my old voyagers and MANY of the other CS product I own. But AUS-8A just doesn't do it for me anymore. Once you try S30v, M4, M390, super blue and other metals it is hard to go back.
I like my old voyagers and MANY of the other CS product I own. But AUS-8A just doesn't do it for me anymore. Once you try S30v, M4, M390, super blue and other metals it is hard to go back.
BlackKnight86
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Polypro quarter staff/hiking staff, sturdy enough for defensive work
I've tried S30V...and I have NO trouble going back to AUS8 or 8cr13MoV for example. Sure, S30V is better, but it's not better enough for me to justify the extra cost in most cases.