Cold Steel Recon Tanto

[3Guardsmen]

IMO the handle of the Original Tanto is much more comfortable than that of the SRK and Recon Tanto, though the SRK/Recon Tanto handle is OK for the price.

If Lynn Thompson stole the handle design for those two knives, why didn't he steal a better one?

LMAO I agree, the handles could be better, but for the price, they're okay. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anybody accused Cold Steel of stealing the handle design they used on their SRK and Recon Tanto.

Regards,
3G

 

[northern1]

you should've seen the interest lynn thompson took in the JOE CASWELL "EDC" with the "IN-LINE" pocket clip that won the BLADE SHOW'S "BEST INNOVATIVE DESIGN" award.

i expect to see the cold steel,chinese made version sometime soon.i had a nice talk with the guys at R.J. MARTINS table also after lynn came by and showed interest in one of their knives.

they said all you can do is hope you dont see a knock of design of yours being made in china.you cant stop the guy is what the said.

i was at both of these tables when he came by and it was something to actually see the guy at work,looking for designs to steel.

he doesnt design his own knives and he doesnt make them either.you also never know who he has making them either as it changes conctantly so you never know what your getting.

the guy is a complete sleeze but if your just a very average knife user as opposed to knowledgeable knife freaks like us and you dont know the story and details behind it all and dont plan on getting to crazy with your knife or betting your life on it,or worrying about warranty issues its a decent knife at a decent price that will serve you decently.

i used to be one of those people when i was a kid just getting into knives and thought gerber was the end all be all of knives.then i found cold steel,watched their
"whicked cool" movies and thought they where the toughest knives out their.

then i found busse.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Those are not the only two choices. Some of us "educated knife people" simply don't get as excited or angry about Cold Steel as do others. Vote with your wallet.

 

[Michael Lovett]

I like the Recon Tanto as a knife that is good for the money, at least the old Carbon V version, I don't know about the new one since I don't have one.

The design isn't as good as the Original Tanto or the Outdoorsman IMO, but they cost a lot more and are smaller.

IMO the handle of the Original Tanto is much more comfortable than that of the SRK and Recon Tanto, though the SRK/Recon Tanto handle is OK for the price.

If Lynn Thompson stole the handle design for those two knives, why didn't he steal a better one?

Haaahaa!!! Now that's a good one! He DID steal a good one. In fact one of the best designs of all time. He just screwed it up as usually.

Every curve and nuance of a Loveless Grip has a purpose. It isn't there for looks. But Thompson isn't a maker, or designer, as has been pointed out else where. He simply didn't understand what he was copying. Typical. 99.9% of the people who copy a
Loveless have no idea what the design elements or the grip are for. You cant blame Loveless,( The most successful Knife Designer, maker, and most collectible of all modern makers.) for Thompson screwing up a fantastic design. If he could do it right, he wouldn't be stealing every thing he can!

Russ. Public Domain? where the hell did you get that? Walk in to the Riverside shop and Bob Loveless that.

God, Were is Lovetts Dog in this fight? Is there any one in the collecting world that doesn't know? Apparently you know nothing about Loveless, Merritt, or Lovett.

Thanks so much Con-Fed. I guess those links show who the lier is here. Looks like this isn't the first time this has come up here. I had no Idea he had been trying to pull the wool over folks eyes for so long. And still still at it. You got'ta give him a "C" for consistency, and an "F" for frigg'n lier. LOL!!!

Hey JT!! you got'ta Love it!

 

[Michael Lovett]

This is what the Loveless grip is supposed to look like!
The BIG BEAR

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[Michael Lovett]

This is closer to what the grip of the recon tanto should have looked like had it been shaped properly.

This is a Loveless Wilderness

[/IMG]

 

[Michael Lovett]

Or these Lovett's

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[Michael Lovett]

He hasn't stollen these yet!

The NY Special and Hide Out

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[Phil Elmore]

Could we go over again why, if all of this thievery is going on, nobody is suing? I understand that lawyers are very expensive, but if it's as blatant as all that, why wouldn't you get one of those law firms that specializes in personal damages and take Thompson to the cleaners'?

 

[Michael Lovett]

Hey JT, Care to tell this genius who where this is?

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[Michael Lovett]

Could we go over again why, if all of this thievery is going on, nobody is suing? I understand that lawyers are very expensive, but if it's as blatant as all that, why wouldn't you get one of those law firms that specializes in personal damages and take Thompson to the cleaners'?

A very good question Phil!

The short answer is this. Do you recall the case of the man who invented the ratchet wrench. What we cal a socket wrench. Sears riped him off and brought it out as their invention. He went after them. But just as any small custom shop owner, he didn't have the financial backing to compete with Sears. It took years. When he finally won they appealed. It took decades. By the time he had won, and received his compensation, he was long dead, and died broke fighting The Sears legal Machine.

There are hundreds of cased like this. And to top it off, he was just going after one company! We have been ripped off by a lot of them! Better to just make Knives. But it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, or piss us off.

now here is the crazy part. I own several Cold Steel Knives. In fact, I'm trying to get my hands on a bowie prototype ground by Jim Merritt him self. (Loveless Partner) Yep, He worked for CS for a while. Years ago. All this stuff isn't new. Just is to the newbies.

M Lovett

 

[Tonie Nichols]

I think that dead people probably make lousy cutlery customers, so I'd be willing to bet that Lynn Thompson, to some extent, cares whether his prospective customers, not that there are necessarily that many here, are alive or dead.

Regards,
3G

Let's see if I can put a finer point on it for you 3G.

The Blade Forum homepage says that there are 116,631 registered members. It says that there are 700 some odd people viewing. There are 21 or 22 members posting to this forum. Do you really think that Lynn Thompson gives a rats posterior about what you or I or Lovett or all the other 19 whole people has to say? Heck, he's producing a greater number models of Voyagers than there are people participating in this thread. Lynn Thompson has gotten to be where he is precisely by NOT caring what people think, including anybody who may only be viewing this thread.

I'm not defending or criticizing his business practices, I'm saying that he couldn't care less about what we think about them. It's been my experience that forum people have an INFINITELY inflated opinion of their opinions. At least people like Lovett are producing something other than words and I respect him for that. I can't afford his knives, but I respect him for them.

That's why these threads are so amusing. If a person doesn't want to buy a Cold Steel knife, the only thing LT can do is advertise more. If anybody here had anything to say that was of meaning to him he'd be responding and defending himself.

So all you folks who aren't producing anything other than words, please continue to rant and rave, upset your digestive system and raise your blood pressure, you ain't hurting Lynn Thompson at all. Me, I'll set back and chuckle at it and appreciate the wealth of information that people like Mr. Lovett present.

Then I'll go out and buy the knives that I can afford and that meet my purposes.

 

[nagod]

God, Were is Lovetts Dog in this fight? Is there any one in the collecting world that doesn't know? Apparently you know nothing about Loveless, Merritt, or Lovett.



yes,there are lots of people besides me who are not part of the old boys club so please enlighten me with facts..btw its nagod not God...thanks

 

[he who say]

did we decide weather the carbon tanto is better then the aus 8 tanto yet?

 

[Phil Elmore]

A very good question Phil!

The short answer is this. Do you recall the case of the man who invented the ratchet wrench. What we cal a socket wrench. Sears riped him off and brought it out as their invention. He went after them. But just as any small custom shop owner, he didn't have the financial backing to compete with Sears. It took years. When he finally won they appealed. It took decades. By the time he had won, and received his compensation, he was long dead, and died broke fighting The Sears legal Machine.

There are hundreds of cased like this. And to top it off, he was just going after one company! We have been ripped off by a lot of them! Better to just make Knives. But it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, or piss us off.

now here is the crazy part. I own several Cold Steel Knives. In fact, I'm trying to get my hands on a bowie prototype ground by Jim Merritt him self. (Loveless Partner) Yep, He worked for CS for a while. Years ago. All this stuff isn't new. Just is to the newbies.

M Lovett

But Cold Steel isn't Sears and Roebuck. The company isn't that powerful. That's what I don't get.

 

[Tonie Nichols]

But Cold Steel isn't Sears and Roebuck. The company isn't that powerful. That's what I don't get.

Lacking a great degree of insider's knowledge of the knife industry I wonder just how many knife designs are actually patented? In the early 1970's I worked in Wayne Goddard's shop roughing blades out for him and I never knew him to patent any thing he developed.

Quite the contrary, being a custom maker he would make any design customers brought to him. I remember when the drop point hunter became popular and every maker and his dog was making them. I don't remember any particular maker being acknowledged as the originator of that design and I don't remember Wayne asking permission of any other maker to produce and sell that design. Maybe he did, I just didn't know it. At the last Oregon Knife Collectors Association show I saw a display of 12 to 15 copies of the Loveless subhilt fighter (including a CS Black Bear Classic); did every one of those makers call Bob Loveless and ask permission to produce them? Did any of them pay him a royalty? I doubt it.

So if knife designs aren't patented and no maker asks another for permission or pays another a royalty for the use of that design, why is anybody criticizing Lynn Thompson for doing the same? Other than the fact that he makes a (one would assume) lessor quality product, for less money and makes more profit at it. What about Kabar, Ontario or Case, they don't copy other peoples designs? What about their collaborations? Cold Steel has collaborations too, don't they pay for them?

Don't get me wrong, I wish I could afford to have all my knives custom made. But it's not going to happen, custom knives are just too expensive. So I'm supposed to feel so bad that because I can't afford $300 to $1000 for a custom that I'm not going to buy any knife. BULL-ONEY!!

Ya' know, I don't buy the whole idea that a single custom maker can't afford to sue Cold Steel. If there's such a great number of custom makers out there that are being so hugely ripped off they should pool their resources and fight for what's theirs.

 

[Buffalohump]

I guess LT doesn't really give a hoot what people think of him, but I for one believe that what comes around, goes around and if what you all say is true, he'll get his one day.

Its a damn shame all round. I remember as a school kid in the mid-80s laying eyes on a CS Magnum Tanto for the first time and it blew me away.

Eventually, many years later, I was able to afford a Magnum Tanto II. Although I paid a pretty penny for it, I was not disappointed.

Not so long ago, I grabbed another CS grail (for me) off the Exchange here, a San Mai Trailmaster (this time at a much better price).

Personally, I feel these two blades best represent the CS of old. Big bold blades that cut like a mofo and are a lot of fun to own. To the best of my knowledge, LT didn't steal either of these designs.

I sure wish he'd stuck to that path. I think money has caused him to lose his way and the company is definitely the poorer for it. A man should care about his reputation. Its worth more than money.

 

[udtjim]

Had he really stole any designs, he probably would have been sued. Most of those designs have been around many times centuries ago.

 

[Confederate]

In 1970, the Bangor Punta Corporation, then the parent company of Smith & Wesson, purchased 54 percent of Forjas Taurus,allowing the two firearms manufacturers to easily share information regarding design and manufacturing. In 1977, Taurus was purchased from Bangor Punta by its current owners, and its ties to Smith & Wesson were severed.

And yet its revolvers continue to be close copies of the Smith & Wesson line. Beretta sold its tooling to Taurus and thus we had Taurus' 9mm copies with some notable improvements, but not the same dedication to tolerance as shown by Beretta. And Rossi and Llama came along with no ties to S&W and many of their revolvers also appear slavishly copied.

I am admittedly baffled by your superior encyclopedic knowledge of the gun industry, but I think you missed my point. It can be argued by S&W that these inexpensive knock-offs cost them business, but it's difficult for a custom knife maker to argue that a Cold Steel design took money from his pockets.

Each case must be decided on its own merits, as I have taken pains to repeat, and no one side can exclusively be represented. In some cases mitigating factors are present and in other cases they apparently are not. You, yourself, cite a mitigating factor in Taurus' copying S&W designs. What else may lie beneath the surface when such copies issue forth?

Very few blades and handles are entirely original. Choosing combinations and altering them may constitute originality and it may not. Many such determinations are far beyond what most knife consumers can ascertain. But even in the case of blatant rip-offs, ethical restraints remain a matter of individual conscience. To ask someone not to buy a CS G.I. Tanto because it's a copy of an outlandishly overpriced Strider is an awfully difficult argument to make to people who simply have no interest in paying three hundred dollars more for the "real deal."

My own observation is that Lynn Thompson could have greatly improved on the design without resorting to a direct copy. Why he didn't do that is beyond me, but the customer base is so distinct that neither Cold Steel nor Strider are losing money to the other. Yes, legal action is expensive and beyond the reach of most independent custom makers, but it's the only thing we've got. Ethics is another area entirely.

 

[Confederate]

God, Were is Lovetts Dog in this fight? Is there any one in the collecting world that doesn't know?

Perhaps Cold Steel should be run by Jon Lovitz. "Yeah, I designed that knife back in...1971, when I got married to my wife...uh...Morgan Fairchild...yeah, and that was after I returned from Vietnam, where I used a knife just like it to kill five...hundred, yeah, that's the ticket, five thousand Vietcong all by myself. And I came back and produced it here and got famous...."

At least we would know who was lying up front.