Cold Steel vs. CRKT Lawsuit

I wonder if we shouldn't be less surprised that someone is being called out for a spurious advertising claim.
Yes there's a lot of relative factors, but if it can be shown in court that something is false advertising, why not?

I have no doubt Cold Steel just wants it in court that their knives are stronger, but it's not like it hurts anyone, the only consequences are that Cold Steel gets to spend a bunch of money bragging in court and CRKT has to stop exaggerating in their advertising material.
CRKT could just change their advertising and be done with it, it's going to be interesting watching their reaction.

I have read comments urging CS on and it may sound cool at first for everything to be fair game but seriously imagine if all these knife companies began acting like CS. Smear campaigns... frivolous lawsuits.... extreme fanboy wars....companies making greater exagerations.... It'll get ugly real fast. This is why you do not see this sort of garbage in other competitive markets (guns, cars, watches, etc). Unfortunately, some do not have enough foresight to see this and make claims such as "Yeah CS, keep the knife market honest", let's see more in house tests where your knives never lose".
 
I wonder if we shouldn't be less surprised that someone is being called out for a spurious advertising claim.

Yes there's a lot of relative factors, but if it can be shown in court that something is false advertising, why not?

Because it's wrong and frivolous at best? Who is CS to lay the groundwork for the definition of words used in advertising? CS has, on more than one occasion, sent out substandard products and simply remedied it with "send it back and we'll replace it." Did they change their advertising on the knives with off center and bad grinds? Did they recall all their pocket bushman knives because the ram is designed by a wonder boy? Redesigned by a different wonder boy? What about their customer service drones who send, not the "upgraded" ram/parts, but the exact same ram that failed in the first place? Did they "fix" their issues? No...but hey....if someone can be made to be a bigger villain so all eyes go elsewhere, why not?

I have no doubt Cold Steel just wants it in court that their knives are stronger, but it's not like it hurts anyone, the only consequences are that Cold Steel gets to spend a bunch of money bragging in court and CRKT has to stop exaggerating in their advertising material.

Not hurt anyone? I'd think CRKT would offer a different opinion. in court, the apparent loser pays [at the least] the attorney fees. So now, not only does CS get to be the self appointed dictionarynazi of the word "virtual," they get to bring a law suit against anyone who THEY deem as inferior?

CRKT could just change their advertising and be done with it, it's going to be interesting watching their reaction.

Why should they? I'd think if it could be proven their locks were stronger than a common rat-tailed fixed blade, their claims were genuine and thus, the suit thrown out of court.....and then stuffed court decision right down L.Thompson's throat.
 
Was considering a couple of their recent releases with the upgraded CTS-XHP blades. Not anymore.

I thought they had some knives that could stand on their own merit, but they seem to want to undermine themselves and make their brand synonymous with absurd advertisements, ridiculous in-house "tests", and now suing their competition over their advertising language.
 
I have read comments urging CS on and it may sound cool at first for everything to be fair game but seriously imagine if all these knife companies began acting like CS. Smear campaigns... frivolous lawsuits.... extreme fanboy wars....companies making greater exagerations.... It'll get ugly real fast. This is why you do not see this sort of garbage in other competitive markets (guns, cars, watches, etc). Unfortunately, some do not have enough foresight to see this and make claims such as "Yeah CS, keep the knife market honest", let's see more in house tests where your knives never lose".

It's already there dude. Look at this thread alone.
 
You guys are waaaayyyy over reacting to this.

Cold Steel is famous for their marketing ploys, but also, CRKT has been selling, without any designs to remedy the problem, knives that are unsafe. A good slipjoint would perform as well as one of their "virtual fixed blade" knives. CS called them on it. CRKT, did not recall the knives, unlike Gerber that did.
Let us all take a deep breath, and relax a bit.

CRKT is selling knives that are unsafe? Why? Because somebody might actually think it's a fixed blade knife? And now that somebody thinks it's a fixed blade knife, that's a "problem"? And now CRKT needs to change their design to REMEDY that?

I'd like to see the guy who read the "virtual fixed blade" part, actually thought he had a fixed blade, and is now injured because of it.

Then I'd like to see that guy culled from our gene pool. Poor bastid might mistake "virtual reality" for reality.

I don't know if people are waaaayyyy overreacting to this, but I'd say you are waaayyyy overstating CRKT's "problem".
 
I'm considering this; I imagine as a prominent well known knife company, they already had their lawyers on retainer due to the nature of their product and the potential liability within the business, (as did crkt), so legal fees (as of now) aren't exceptionally high cost, but rather minimal..

If they were to drop the suit right now, (or any time before it actually went to court), consider even without legal action, we're already talking 5 pages deep in just a few hours about both companies, and i can almost guarantee that head to head LAWKS vs Tri-Ad lock videos are soon to appear on YouTube: pro both companies and anti both companies (unless one does just completely blow), so the amount of publicity this is bound to generate for both companies (provided both product lines stand up to testing) will potentially be huge, for a minimal fee...

I'm always a fan of a good conspiracy theory, not to just jump right in hook line and sinker, but to ponder; this "could" be a very clever joint marketing gimmick...:eek:
 
Nothing new, just add it to the list.

Some won't buy their stuff, others will continue.

Doesn't do the knife community any good though.
 
My vote is they got in a dispute over some chinese factory to make their crap in.
I can see reason in taking a competitor to court for a reason like benchmade being angry cold steel stole the axis lock, but not over silly marketing phrases.

cold steel uses the same term that they are suing for in describing their plastic walking stick promoted by steven segal...

"While together on a research trip, Steven showed our company President one of the prized pieces in his collection. An oversized custom walking stick of Steven's own design.
This beautiful work of art was made of the finest exotic hardwood but over the years it had aged and weathered. Lynn immediately saw the potential in making a modern synthetic polymer replica of this unique design. One that wouldn’t age, crack, warp or splinter. One that was virtually unbreakable!"
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/91PSSZ/Steven_Seagal_Ten_Shin.aspx

Oh well. Cold steel keep doing what you do. As some child on this forum, and likely cold steel fan, recently suggested knife steel might run out soon.
If that happens we'll all need cold steels "virtually unbreakable", "strongest, sharpest knives" - chinese plastic cutlery.
"They can be hidden virtually everywhere"
http://www.coldsteel.com/Category/18_1/Plastic_Knives.aspx

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Yayyyy cold steel to the rescue. THIS guy knows what I'm talking about.
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CRKT should demand trial by combat because a sword fight between James Williams and Lynn Thompson would just be the best thing ever.......
 
Testing the knives was enough. Crass and inappropriate to initiate a lawsuit.

I hope they realize this is an invitation for other entities to take them to task with some of their own claims.
 
cold steel uses the same term that they are suing for in describing their plastic walking stick promoted by steven segal...

"While together on a research trip, Steven showed our company President one of the prized pieces in his collection. An oversized custom walking stick of Steven's own design.
This beautiful work of art was made of the finest exotic hardwood but over the years it had aged and weathered. Lynn immediately saw the potential in making a modern synthetic polymer replica of this unique design. One that wouldn’t age, crack, warp or splinter. One that was virtually unbreakable!"
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/91PSSZ/Steven_Seagal_Ten_Shin.aspx

Nice catch. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
 
I hope they realize this is an invitation for other entities to take them to task with some of their own claims.

Right on.

Nice catch. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

3 pages of it, do a search on their site for the term "virtually"

1917 CUTLASS "virtually an exact copy"
6" TI-LITE "virtually in a class by itself"
JUNGLE MACHETE W/SHEATH "it's virtually unbreakable"
KOGA SD1 "Made of virtually unbreakable plastic"
NATCHEZ BOWIE "is virtually indestructible"
AK-47 FIELD KNIFE "hard wearing virtually scratch resistant surface"
RAJAH II "our world renowned Tri Ad locking mechanism...virtually impervious to shock"
SECRET EDGE "it virtually disappears under clothing"
SWIFT I "strongest assisted opening knife on the market today. Virtually impervious to shock"
WAR HAWK "Capable of cutting or smashing through virtually any obstacle!"
CUSTOM PENDLETON HUNTER "With its tapered full tang construction and extra stout "spine" it's virtually indestructible"
FGX KARAMBIT "They can be hidden virtually everywhere"
MINI TAC SERIES "Their versatility is virtually endless."
PEACE MAKER SERIES "covered by your pant leg they're rendered virtually invisible."
 
That is hilarious! Especially calling a knife "virtually indestructible" which is a far more concrete claim than saying a folder is "virtually a fixed blade." I hope CRKT's lawyers browse CS's promotional materials when responding to this silly lawsuit. Hopefully in a motion for fees for responding to a frivolous claim.
 
It has been a considerable space of time since one has read such whining by an Internet jury of experts.
I had a Cat Tanto. It is tough to break. It bent almost 90 degrees to then return back to true.
The pommel withstood slamming into concrete, brick, wood, and other rigid objects. It performed as advertised. CRKT has put a number of unsafe designs out in the last decade, some having to be pulled. Comparing a quality control issue like off center grinds and uneven bevels is a strawman to compare to, for example, the M16 by the aforementioned. It has proven to break, LAWKS, Auto-LAWKS, or not, being sold as a hard use knife marketed to servicemen.
Cold Steel's Ram Lock on the Bushman is often misunderstood, but it did fix the issue. CRKT has not

If that CRKT knife cannot do what the claim is, a "... virtual fixed blade", that is false advertising.
What is a bit funny is that most complaining here already own knives from either maker, or have been interested.
Now, that's fandom to the extreme.
Yes, Thompson is an arrogant pariah that will give the shirt from his back. He also refuses to play the games of the cutlery industry. It does not appear he is out to appease or please anyone. Are those tests safe; does not each one issue a warning against the performance of these tests in each video? You can call these abuse tests whatever you like, but Cold Steel stands alone actually proving its marketing. Where is CRKT's proof, or most any other manufacturer, of the issued claim? The Glessers are a classy clan, but have not proven the claims about the Tatanka, though it is pretty tough. What about Leatherman, Benchmade, SOG, Buck, and so forth?
Like it or nor, or call it snuffing out competition, but to do something about the honesty of the industry is actually a noble, righteous thing. In one of the destruction test videos, Demko says the videos were done at the request of fans. Doesn't that show at least a segment of buyers want honesty made by maufactuerers? Ask yourself if 1/10th of all claims made in the knife industry would hold salt in any other.

Bad grinds or broken blades? How many thousands were lost replacing defective knives?
It seems wise to let the court decide, and see how it plays out.
I can see what Thompson and co. are attempting.
 
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Right on.



3 pages of it, do a search on their site for the term "virtually"

1917 CUTLASS "virtually an exact copy"
6" TI-LITE "virtually in a class by itself"
JUNGLE MACHETE W/SHEATH "it's virtually unbreakable"
KOGA SD1 "Made of virtually unbreakable plastic"
NATCHEZ BOWIE "is virtually indestructible"
AK-47 FIELD KNIFE "hard wearing virtually scratch resistant surface"
RAJAH II "our world renowned Tri Ad locking mechanism...virtually impervious to shock"
SECRET EDGE "it virtually disappears under clothing"
SWIFT I "strongest assisted opening knife on the market today. Virtually impervious to shock"
WAR HAWK "Capable of cutting or smashing through virtually any obstacle!"
CUSTOM PENDLETON HUNTER "With its tapered full tang construction and extra stout "spine" it's virtually indestructible"
FGX KARAMBIT "They can be hidden virtually everywhere"
MINI TAC SERIES "Their versatility is virtually endless."
PEACE MAKER SERIES "covered by your pant leg they're rendered virtually invisible."

Virtual: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=define+virtually&ia=definition
Virtually: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=define+virtually&ia=definition

You're stretching the truth a little here. Virtual and its adverb, virtually, do not mean the exact same.
A "virtual fixed blade" is CRKT's claim that their knife in essence is a fixed blade, or can be thought of as a fixed blade. The three pages above of the appearance of the adjective virtually is to say in all practicality, the Triad lock makes Cold Steel folders almost as strong as a fixed blade. Having multiple parts means no folder can ever be as strong as a fixed blade.
This is consistent with their testing procedures. There is not a Cold Steel or any other folder which could one customary ton.
There is not a folder that can be repeatedly thrown without breakage of the blade or internal mechanisms.

CRKT's claim that a folder is essentially or in essence a fixed blade is erroneous more than what is pertinent to grammar.
 
Right on.



3 pages of it, do a search on their site for the term "virtually"

1917 CUTLASS "virtually an exact copy"
6" TI-LITE "virtually in a class by itself"
JUNGLE MACHETE W/SHEATH "it's virtually unbreakable"
KOGA SD1 "Made of virtually unbreakable plastic"
NATCHEZ BOWIE "is virtually indestructible"
AK-47 FIELD KNIFE "hard wearing virtually scratch resistant surface"
RAJAH II "our world renowned Tri Ad locking mechanism...virtually impervious to shock"
SECRET EDGE "it virtually disappears under clothing"
SWIFT I "strongest assisted opening knife on the market today. Virtually impervious to shock"
WAR HAWK "Capable of cutting or smashing through virtually any obstacle!"
CUSTOM PENDLETON HUNTER "With its tapered full tang construction and extra stout "spine" it's virtually indestructible"
FGX KARAMBIT "They can be hidden virtually everywhere"
MINI TAC SERIES "Their versatility is virtually endless."
PEACE MAKER SERIES "covered by your pant leg they're rendered virtually invisible."

Is that a proven claim? Is it really " the strongest"? Has it been proven to be so? What if there us a stronger one? (What if one of the CRKT models proves to stronger, wouldn't that be a hoot?)...
 
Here in lies a discrepecy;

As per merriam-webster: Virtual - very close to being something, WITHOUT ACTUALLY being it.

"Virtual reality" isn't actual reality, and one might argue that a LAWKS system folding knife is in some ways "closer" to being an actual fixed blade then virtual reality is to being actual reality... The term "close to" is very subjective, and the term "without actually" leaves plenty of wiggle room... And as pointed out before, there was no specification on what type of fixed blade: they didn't claim to specify virtually a full tang vs. a partial, so I think CRKT wins the case...
 
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