Cold Steel vs. CRKT Lawsuit

Four-and-twentypence said:
Druid, you maintain an error. A folder has more points of failure than a fixed blade. It is odd why you didn't merely use the quote function, but oh, well. What do you think the stop pin in Demko's Triad lock is there to prevent, invasion of fluffy bunnies? ;)

It isn't libel if it is true- and it is. Come back when you can separate your biased opinions from fact after looking up years worth of forum posts, videos, blogs, so on, documenting the flat out lie by CRKT. Nice strawman; I never said this was about grammar, but that does have some bearing in court.

As to the rest of the treble damages and such, likely is it such is legal speak concocted by Cold Steel's attorneys.

Is it "ridiculous" to try to change a trend in an industry rife with libel?
It is "ridiculous" to misconstrue my statements, and answer with factless strawmen.

Good day. :)
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You presume too much. I don't care if a folder has more points of failure..."virtually" or not, it's still locked into position until released.

And I had a cheap copy of a Buck 110 that took more abuse than an expensive rat-tailed fixed blade that I had to throw out because the tang snapped off at the hilt. The 'not quite' Buck was undamaged. Your point is moot.

"Virtually" means what it means....and I suspect that CRKT's legal beagles approved whatever ads they put into print long before the ink was even mixed. Your point is again moot.

Also - You maintain an error in that I care what your trolling says. Funny how you are here less than a month and come running to the aid of CS so quickly...and with such a fistful of internet muscle to boot. Fanboy or employee? The ignore button is getting a workout this week.
 
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zzyzzogeton said:
Maybe he was just born after his time. "Lynn ("lake" in Welsh) was an extremely popular name prior to 1900. SINCE 1900, it kinda struggled along until the 1940s when it had a brief resurgence in popularity, more so with females (peaked in 1956) than males (peaked in 1942), and has been in a popularity tailspin.

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And probably got him stuffed into more than one locker in elementary school...
 
This Ranch Boss ad from Cold Steel's website is my favorite.
.
"100% USA made, the Ranch Boss features three strong, sharp and durable hand-ground and satin polished CPM-S35VN Steel blades - Classic Clip Point, Sheep's Foot and Spey Blades - authentic Amber Bone Stag Scales and all nickel silver bolsters, liners and pins.
This upgrade to superior high-end materials ensures cutting capabilities rarely seen in even the most expensive custom knives, and the edge on this truly beautiful traditionally styled working man's knife has the potential to last a lifetime without re-sharpening!"
 
Any knife has the potential to last a lifetime without sharpening... if you don't use it.
 
One company officially complaining or suing another company over claimed "false advertising" is nothing new:

Castrol vs. Pennzoil
Pennzoil's ads claimed, `Pennzoil outperforms any leading motor oil against viscosity breakdown.' Also claiming that, "Pennzoil's television commercials convey the false and misleading message that, because of Pennzoil's purported viscosity breakdown advantage, Pennzoil motor oils prevent `engine failure' better than other motor oils and afford customers `longer engine life' and `better engine protection' than other motor oils."
Basically, Castrol's contention was that the advertising was false, beyond the "puffing" that is allowable in advertising, and that it lead toward an unfair advantage in business competition.

Sterling Jewelers vs. Zale Corp
Zales ad claimed that its Celebration Fire Diamond is ““the most brilliant diamond in the world”. Sterling alleged in their suit that, “Fire diamonds are not the most brilliant in the world, and the research claimed to prove that Fire diamonds are the most brilliant in the world does not and cannot so prove.”

Comcast vs. Direct TV
Remember the funny Rob Lowe ads for Direct TV? Comcast complained to the BBB about their false claims about availability and reliability. This case was taken up by the Federal Trade Commission, and the ads were quickly pulled from the air.
Comcast also went after AT&T for their claims about their internet speed.

So, a company seeking to level the playing field through the legal system is nothing new. The legal system is where grievances are SUPPOSED to be settled. Yes, we all have a bad taste in our mouths about the BS that is in the legal system, but it is really the only place to have your issues dealt with properly, unless we go back to pistols at 10 paces.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
The legal system is where grievances are SUPPOSED to be settled. Yes, we all have a bad taste in our mouths about the BS that is in the legal system, but it is really the only place to have your issues dealt with properly, unless we go back to pistols at 10 paces.
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I thought the free market was supposed to figure out whose product was worthy...
 
stabman said:
I thought the free market was supposed to figure out whose product was worthy...
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Wrong. The free market is full of sheeple who buy the wrong knife repeatedly. Look at this place; if the free market worked as advertised the only thing we'd all own is Cold Steel knives.

Instead we're led to buy all sorts of inferior products at great personal expense.
 
stabman said:
I thought the free market was supposed to figure out whose product was worthy...
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I agree. But, if the market is tilted toward one company over another due to false claims rather than quality of product, then don't companies that are being adversely affected by said false claims have the right to defend themselves?

If you look at just one of the examples I mentioned, Castrol vs Pennzoil, how is the general public, not motor-heads, supposed to know what is false and what is true?

Are most knives purchased by "knife knuts" who may understand the difference between "puffing" and an actual false claim, or by the non-knife-educated masses? There have been a lot of people saying that it should be the consumers only that should complain, but don't companies also have the right to protect their interests against false claims by competitors?

Just asking...
 
DngrRuss1 said:
I agree. But, if the market is tilted toward one company over another due to false claims rather than quality of product, then don't companies that are being adversely affected by said false claims have the right to defend themselves?

Are most knives purchased by "knife knuts" who may understand the difference between "puffing" and an actual false claim, or by the non-knife-educated masses? There have been a lot of people saying that it should be the consumers only that should complain, but don't companies also have the right to protect their interests against false claims by competitors?

Just asking...
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Cold Steel wasn't being negatively affected by any of it though.
Even people who hated the company knew the Tri-Ad lock was really strong.
And more "man on the street" sorts know the name Cold Steel than CRKT.

Seems to be a wrong move on so many levels.
 
Danke42 said:
Wrong. The free market is full of sheeple who buy the wrong knife repeatedly. Look at this place; if the free market worked as advertised the only thing we'd all own is Cold Steel knives.

Instead we're led to buy all sorts of inferior products at great personal expense.
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Are you being tongue in cheek, or fo you actually think it works that way?
 
stabman said:
Cold Steel wasn't being negatively affected by any of it though.
Even people who hated the company knew the Tri-Ad lock was really strong.
And more "man on the street" sorts know the name Cold Steel than CRKT.
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Are you sure?
Do you know for a fact that CS folding knife sales are not being adversely affected by the alleged false claims by CRKT? Are you sure the "man on the street" doesn't walk into a box store, knife shop, or goes online and sees CS boasting about how strong their locks are, but then sees CRKT claiming to have a lock strong enough to be a "virtual fixed blade" and then decides their purchase based on that alleged false claim?

That is what the court is there to evaluate and decide. Court of Public Opinion is not usually as accurate.

Again, just saying...
 
But you can't go into court without a legit claim under established law, which makes a distinction between mere puffery vs false claims of objective and verifiable fact. Using the legal system to illegitimately harass competitors can and should be sanctioned.
 
fishface5 said:
But you can't go into court without a legit claim under established law, which makes a distinction between mere puffery vs false claims of objective and verifiable fact. Using the legal system to illegitimately harass competitors can and should be sanctioned.
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That is generally true, at least at face value, but does not stop it from happening thousands of times a day in courts all over the country sadly.
 
Danke42 said:
Wrong. The free market is full of sheeple who buy the wrong knife repeatedly. Look at this place; if the free market worked as advertised the only thing we'd all own is Cold Steel knives.

Instead we're led to buy all sorts of inferior products at great personal expense.
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A model of objectivity I see.

I like my several CS knives, just NOT Lynn, his history of personal attacks of competitors, or this sappy lawsuit.
 
Just for crap's sake and forgive me for my ignorance. Does Cold Steel actually make their own knives? If not who do you think or know who does. I'm particularly interested in the Ranch Boss but It looks like a Bear and Sons dillio. It would be great to have a stockman with S35VN and the price around the interwebs is getting where it belongs. I'd plan on having to sharpen it though.
 
Thomas Linton said:
A model of objectivity I see.

I like my several CS knives, just NOT Lynn, his history of personal attacks of competitors, or this sappy lawsuit.
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Heck, I don't have that big an issue with personal attacks on competitors. Bluster and bully all you want, maybe it'll piss them off and they'll make a better knife. But that's what I want to see, more money spent making better knives. This lawsuit seems to encourage more money being spent on lawyers and ad copy. Not what I like to see as a consumer. Seriously, break people's knives, call them criminals, call their knives substandard, encourage them to step up and make something that's stronger and better than what you make, but don't pull legal shenanigans over claims no more ridiculous than your own.
 
wazu013 said:
Just for crap's sake and forgive me for my ignorance. Does Cold Steel actually make their own knives? If not who do you think or know who does. I'm particularly interested in the Ranch Boss but It looks like a Bear and Sons dillio. It would be great to have a stockman with S35VN and the price around the interwebs is getting where it belongs. I'd plan on having to sharpen it though.
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Cold Steel contracts with other companies to have its knives made.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
I agree. But, if the market is tilted toward one company over another due to false claims rather than quality of product, then don't companies that are being adversely affected by said false claims have the right to defend themselves?

Just asking...
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Defend yourself in the marketplace. At no time in history has it been easier to disseminate information on a truly global scale. This form of "lawfare" does nothing to help the consumer while at the same time massively mis-allocating resources to nonproductive uses.
 
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