Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance

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J_Curd said:
Apologies. So you're cutting blind and expecting to not get hurt? What am I missing?
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Again, wrong. Okay, I will spell out a scenario in which it could (and I have first hand knowledge of DID) happen.

Say you are installing a dish washer. And one of the final steps, is that you need to cut to size the drain hose to the air gap. So you use your Kershaw Whirlwind cut the hose against the back of the cabinet, using the 1 by 4 as a makeshift cutting board-seeing everything that you are doing under there, because you have a mini maglite in your mouth shining light up there. Then as you pull your hand back, you accidentally hit the back of the Whrilwind on a cast iron sink, and the lock fails, and closes on your index finger, requiring 3 stitches.
 
ursamajor said:
Have you ever been pulled over for speeding? Ever gotten a truck stuck in the mud? What about having a car accident where you were not at fault? Accidentally break something in your life? If you answer yes to those questions, then you have used things in a way that they were not supposed to be used, sometimes intentionally, sometimes accidentally.

It is quite easy, (if you actually use it) to get a liner or frame lock to fail on accident.
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In a car accident where it isn't your fault...OK, I think I got it. I should watch out for mall-ninjas who are out to spine-whack my knife.
 
ursamajor said:
Say you are installing a dish washer. And one of the final steps, is that you need to cut to size the drain hose to the air gap. So you use your Kershaw Whirlwind cut the hose against the back of the cabinet, using the 1 by 4 as a makeshift cutting board-seeing everything that you are doing under there, because you have a mini maglite in your mouth shining light up there. Then as you pull your hand back, you accidentally hit the back of the Whrilwind on a cast iron sink, and the lock fails, and closes on your index finger, requiring 3 stitches.
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- That's a quite a specific scenario to prove that a Tri-Ad lock is needed.
 
Moral of the story of all this is that most knife users like Quiet will prefer to use their knives like city slickers would with their simple cars like Prius or Honda Civic and cries when people abuses those cars, loudly proclaiming that it is not what it is for. And then there are people like me that would use a knife like a truck and expect it to behave like a truck; hard working, able to handle the tasks at hand rain or shine and come out smiling at the end of it all simply because of the type of environment we chose to be in that requires such knives.

Sadly, there are more "Honda Civic lovers" than there are heavy duty truck type owners when it comes to knives and the user behind them.
 
ursamajor said:
Again, wrong. Okay, I will spell out a scenario in which it could (and I have first hand knowledge of DID) happen.

Say you are installing a dish washer. And one of the final steps, is that you need to cut to size the drain hose to the air gap. So you use your Kershaw Whirlwind cut the hose against the back of the cabinet, using the 1 by 4 as a makeshift cutting board-seeing everything that you are doing under there, because you have a mini maglite in your mouth shining light up there. Then as you pull your hand back, you accidentally hit the back of the Whrilwind on a cast iron sink, and the lock fails, and closes on your index finger, requiring 3 stitches.
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My advice to you: Don't pull your knives back with all of your might.
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
Well in objective terms a backlock is stronger than a framelock because the forces that would make the knife close are tensile rather than compressive and steel is stronger under tension than under compression. Lynn Thompson's stated aim is to make the strongest knives, hence the modified backlock design he uses. The weakness of the backlock, that shocks can disengage the bar, is removed by the Tri-Ad's stop pin. The design is, in absolute terms, stronger. That it doesn't matter in most circumstances is beside the point.
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What are you cutting that inacts shocks on a knife sufficient to disengage the bar? Again, you will notice that at no time have I spoken to the strength of the Triad lock. It is an exceptionally strong design, and quite impressive. However, it's primarily a marketing gimmick. If you are using a knife as a knife, other locks are just as good.

So, what you say is beside the point, is actually the point. The OP (and the other Cold Steel fans) has the assertion that somehow Cold Steel knives are better for "hard use"* than Zero Tolerance knives. I disagree, and have not seen any factual, objective statements that disprove my stance from the Cold Steel fan club other than a bunch of statements about how "quite easy" it is for liner/frame locks to fail, and that ZT knives are "more likely" to fail.

Look, the fact is, any tool will fail when used in a manner for which it wasn't designed. Cold Steel knives are not objectively better than ZT knives. That's the fact of the matter. I'm sure Cold Steel knives make better pry-bars, or footrests for fat guys to stand on, but when was the last time you bought a knife because it made a good pry bar, or a foot rest for an obese gentleman?





*Which I'm starting to understand means "abuse and using a knife in place of some very-non-knife tool" to Cold Steel guys
 
tokerblue said:
- That's a quite a specific scenario to prove that a Tri-Ad lock is needed.
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Those situations are more common than you would think. It goes to show that linear locks needs to be redesigned so it wont happen just like they would with air bags so it wont snap the driver's neck when deployed. Better safe than sorry.
 
Can we flip this? What does a ZT do that makes it a superior knife worth twice or 3 times the cost of one of the new XHP CS knives? I'd like to add, on paper, most ZTs have thicker blade stock and are much heavier than most CS models. So the sharpened pry bar analogy, while it indeed applies to both brands, fits the ZT image much better.
 
LadyEarth said:
Moral of the story of all this is that most knife users like Quiet will prefer to use their knives like city slickers would with their simple cars like Prius or Honda Civic and cries when people abuses those cars, loudly proclaiming that it is not what it is for. And then there are people like me that would use a knife like a truck and expect it to behave like a truck; hard working, able to handle the tasks at hand rain or shine and come out smiling at the end of it all simply because of the type of environment we chose to be in that requires such knives.

Sadly, there are more "Honda Civic lovers" than there are heavy duty truck type owners when it comes to knives and the user behind them.
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Oh boy. (Facepalm)

I don't abuse my tools, so suddenly I'm a "city slicker". Well, folks. When people don't have a rational counterpoint and have to resort to personal attacks, I'm done here.

ursamajor said:
Again, wrong. Okay, I will spell out a scenario in which it could (and I have first hand knowledge of DID) happen.

Say you are installing a dish washer. And one of the final steps, is that you need to cut to size the drain hose to the air gap. So you use your Kershaw Whirlwind cut the hose against the back of the cabinet, using the 1 by 4 as a makeshift cutting board-seeing everything that you are doing under there, because you have a mini maglite in your mouth shining light up there. Then as you pull your hand back, you accidentally hit the back of the Whrilwind on a cast iron sink, and the lock fails, and closes on your index finger, requiring 3 stitches.
Click to expand...

I actually installed the dishwasher in my house with a Buck Vantage. Odd, I didn't have a situation like you describe come up. :confused:
 
ursamajor said:
Again, wrong. Okay, I will spell out a scenario in which it could (and I have first hand knowledge of DID) happen.

Say you are installing a dish washer. And one of the final steps, is that you need to cut to size the drain hose to the air gap. So you use your Kershaw Whirlwind cut the hose against the back of the cabinet, using the 1 by 4 as a makeshift cutting board-seeing everything that you are doing under there, because you have a mini maglite in your mouth shining light up there. Then as you pull your hand back, you accidentally hit the back of the Whrilwind on a cast iron sink, and the lock fails, and closes on your index finger, requiring 3 stitches.
Click to expand...

Oh I get that. I had a Byrd fold on my finger, leaving it DANGLING, because I applied pressure against the wrong side of the blade. I was doing it wrong. I didn't send Sal the ER bill.

Our mistakes are ours. We own them. Had to do over, you'd use a fixed blade, right? I know I would.
 
I find it sad that Quiet is going out of his way to defend the flaws of linear locks. Once it bites his fingers one day, I'm sure his tone will change then. :p
 
crom said:
Can we flip this? What does a ZT do that makes it a superior knife worth twice or 3 times the cost of one of the new XHP CS knives?
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Better materials. Cutting performance, the same. But, that's not what this thread is about. It was created to slam ZT products, because the OP is in love with his Cold Steel knife.

And we all know how intellectually superior it is when you're forced to denigrate something else in order to validate your love for what you have, amirite? :thumbup:
 
LadyEarth said:
Moral of the story of all this is that most knife users like Quiet will prefer to use their knives like city slickers would with their simple cars like Prius or Honda Civic and cries when people abuses those cars, loudly proclaiming that it is not what it is for. And then there are people like me that would use a knife like a truck and expect it to behave like a truck; hard working, able to handle the tasks at hand rain or shine and come out smiling at the end of it all simply because of the type of environment we chose to be in that requires such knives.

Sadly, there are more "Honda Civic lovers" than there are heavy duty truck type owners when it comes to knives and the user behind them.
Click to expand...



You're completely wrong. So according to you ANYONE using a knife other than a cold steel is a "city slicker"?? Yeah, because growing up everyone with a 110 was a "city slicker" and definetly babyed their knives!
 
Quiet said:
Better materials. Cutting performance, the same. But, that's not what this thread is about. It was created to slam ZT products, because the OP is in love with his Cold Steel knife.

And we all know how intellectually superior it is when you're forced to denigrate something else in order to validate your love for what you have, amirite? :thumbup:
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The better materials part is gone now though. It is fanboism.
 
Hmmmmm, currently 43 members and 22 guests viewing this thread.

Congratulations OP, well trolled:thumbup::rolleyes:
 
LadyEarth said:
I find it sad that Quiet is going out of his way to defend the flaws of linear locks. Once it bites his fingers one day, I'm sure his tone will change then. :p
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I find it odd that you wish me harm because I don't agree with your logically null argument.
 
crom said:
Can we flip this? What does a ZT do that makes it a superior knife worth twice or 3 times the cost of one of the new XHP CS knives? I'd like to add, on paper, most ZTs have thicker blade stock and are much heavier than most CS models. So the sharpened pry bar analogy, while it indeed applies to both brands, fits the ZT image much better.
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Not liking the direction this discussion is going eh? *insert strawman*
 
Cutting performance between the two brands has not been tested to my knowledge. So this is speculation. Steel variety alone does not determine these things.
 
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