Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance

[LadyEarth]

You're completely wrong. So according to you ANYONE using a knife other than a cold steel is a "city slicker"?? Yeah, because growing up everyone with a 110 was a "city slicker" and definetly babyed their knives!

It's a metaphor used in reference to how one uses a knife and how much abuse one would subject the knife to.

 

[Quiet]

The better materials part is gone now though. It is fanboism.

LOL What? Man, it is getting DEEP in here. Wow.

Ok, Krissig, I think you're right on this one. Cold Steel fanboys are definitely an interesting group, that's for sure. Not friends with logic, but interesting.

 

[crom]

Well we keep hearing all that CS knives are good for is standing on and breaking logs apart my question is a fair one. Also, there is no my way regarding this discussion. What I see is a few brand loyalists that show up in every thread like this and everybody knows how that ends up around here.

 

[LadyEarth]

I find it odd that you wish me harm because I don't agree with your logically null argument.

I don't wish anyone harm. It's a knife, knife will harm on its own any owners. I just prefer the linear lock not to be the reason for harm as it almost was in my case before I retired the ZT 200.

 

[toker]

Moral of the story of all this is that most knife users like Quiet will prefer to use their knives like city slickers would with their simple cars like Prius or Honda Civic and cries when people abuses those cars, loudly proclaiming that it is not what it is for. And then there are people like me that would use a knife like a truck and expect it to behave like a truck; hard working, able to handle the tasks at hand rain or shine and come out smiling at the end of it all simply because of the type of environment we chose to be in that requires such knives.

- You can throw me in the city slicker category too since I work in an office and carry Emersons, Benchmades and ZT's. But I also use my knives in the field to harvest game, waterfowl and anything else that I need. But maybe I don't really use my knives as "hard" as blue collar folk.

 

[Quiet]

Cutting performance between the two brands has not been tested to my knowledge. So this is speculation. Steel variety alone does not determine these things.

That's because Cold Steel isn't interested in any of that. It doesn't make for a good video when all the knives they make can't outcut a $12 Opinel.

 

[ursamajor]

Oh I get that. I had a Byrd fold on my finger, leaving it DANGLING, because I applied pressure against the wrong side of the blade. I was doing it wrong. I didn't send Sal the ER bill.

Our mistakes are ours. We own them. Had to do over, you'd use a fixed blade, right? I know I would.

I'm not saying that the maker should get the bill. I am not saying that Frame or Liner locks don't have their place. But if a knife manufacturer markets their knife to be high strength, then there is a certain level of performance that needs to be there for that. I still own Kershaws. But I am honest about what they are, and what they are not-ad what they can and can not handle. I try to use knives with care, but accidents happen.

 

[Paka]

LOL. Not even close to all my might-I was just pulling my hand back. Not even quickly.

Hmm so you were slowly pulling the knife back and you somehow cut yourself bad enough to need stitches? If your knife foods from barely touching the spine that's completely different from spine-whacking it... Story smells like BS to me.

 

[J_Curd]

It's a knife, knife will harm on its own any owners.

Now knives are sentient beings. Yeah this thread is done...ya'll passed logic's left field about an hour ago.

 

[asdf12345]

I find it sad that Quiet is going out of his way to defend the flaws of linear locks. Once it bites his fingers one day, I'm sure his tone will change then.

Liner locks aren't inherently flawed, and you don't help the argument by this kind of comment.

Liner locks (and frame locks) have a higher chance of being set from the factory in such a way that they can be easily unlocked by accident, resulting in a knife that's not as safe to use.

There's something to be said about having a type of lock that is much less finicky and less reliant on very exact geometry and tolerances, like the Triad.

That doesn't mean that proper liner locks aren't incredibly strong.

Well in objective terms a backlock is stronger than a framelock because the forces that would make the knife close are tensile rather than compressive and steel is stronger under tension than under compression. Lynn Thompson's stated aim is to make the strongest knives, hence the modified backlock design he uses. The weakness of the backlock, that shocks can disengage the bar, is removed by the Tri-Ad's stop pin. The design is, in absolute terms, stronger. That it doesn't matter in most circumstances is beside the point.

Having a lock that's stronger isn't the end all be all if both lock types, when done correctly, can handle abuse in excess of what the knife might encounter. Well done framelocks will handle spinewhacks with no problem.

The likelihood is higher, however, that you will get a framelock which can accidentally disengage from light taps, hand pressure, and gripping the knife in a certain way. The main advantage of the Triad in my eyes is not that it can handle X amount of pounds over the liner or frame lock, but that it is practically guaranteed to not encounter these sorts of accidental disengagement issues.

 

[crom]

Night gentlemen, catch you dudes tomorrow if this thread isn't locked.

 

[ursamajor]

That's because Cold Steel isn't interested in any of that. It doesn't make for a good video when all the knives they make can't outcut a $12 Opinel.

That is funny. And patently false.

Infact, KAI has much more inconsistency in their heat treats than any other major manufacturer out there. And like clockwork, when they introduce a new steel, you can count on KAI to have horrible heat treats in the early running.

 

[LadyEarth]

I've owned both Cold Steel and ZT knives and I would choose ZT knives (depending on which one, like ZT 550) any day of the week.

Why I like ZT over Cold steel like Crom asked:

~ ZT has better smoother handle design as opposed to Cold steel rough plastic feeling handles
~ Cold steel's handle will cut into my palm due to the plastic edges while ZT will ride though all tasks I subject it to with ease
~ ZT is made in America and I rather support American workers
~ ZT has more appealing visual designs from blades to handle that Cold Steel does not attempt to do much of.
~ ZT's customer service and willingness to provide us free materials is a huge plus
~ And more that I am forgetting

Does that answer your question, Crom?

 

[J_Curd]

I'm not saying that the maker should get the bill. I am not saying that Frame or Liner locks don't have their place. But if a knife manufacturer markets their knife to be high strength, then there is a certain level of performance that needs to be there for that. I still own Kershaws. But I am honest about what they are, and what they are not-ad what they can and can not handle. I try to use knives with care, but accidents happen.

Good. Sounds like you've learned to avoid YOUR mistakes.

 

[ursamajor]

Hmm so you were slowly pulling the knife back and you somehow cut yourself bad enough to need stitches? If your knife foods from barely touching the spine that's completely different from spine-whacking it... Story smells like BS to me.

I was pulling my hand back, as if I was pulling my hand back, to put the knife down, and grab a 1/4" nut driver. Along the way, the spine hit the sink, and the knife closed.

 

[Krissig12]

I don't wish anyone harm. It's a knife, knife will harm on its own any owners. I just prefer the linear lock not to be the reason for harm as it almost was in my case before I retired the ZT 200.

So the reason you're a hater of certain locks is because you believe it will somehow save everyone else from their inferior knives? Maybe the hundreds of thousands of people using their "linear" locks and framelocks everyday can decide for themselves what they need in order to be safe?

Just a thought

 

[J_Curd]

That is funny. And patently false.

Infact, KAI has much more inconsistency in their heat treats than any other major manufacturer out there. And like clockwork, when they introduce a new steel, you can count on KAI to have horrible heat treats in the early running.

In fact? Where'd you get your PHD in metallury? Hyperbole much?

Total nonsense repeated as fact.

 

[Quiet]

That is funny. And patently false.

Infact, KAI has much more inconsistency in their heat treats than any other major manufacturer out there. And like clockwork, when they introduce a new steel, you can count on KAI to have horrible heat treats in the early running.

I'm sorry, what does KAI have to do with an Opinel outperforming Cold Steel in cutting? I missed that part.

 

[toker]

That is funny. And patently false.

Infact, KAI has much more inconsistency in their heat treats than any other major manufacturer out there. And like clockwork, when they introduce a new steel, you can count on KAI to have horrible heat treats in the early running.

- I've purchased multiple limited edition ZT's with the new "super steels" like M390 and CTS-204P. I've never had an issue with any of them retaining an edge like they should.

 

[ursamajor]

LOL What? Man, it is getting DEEP in here. Wow.

Ok, Krissig, I think you're right on this one. Cold Steel fanboys are definitely an interesting group, that's for sure. Not friends with logic, but interesting.

Please tell me what ZT materials are superior to the materials in a 4-Max?