Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance

Status
Not open for further replies.
ursamajor said:
That is the most asinine, failed attempt at a counter response I have seen here. I don't need a metallurgy degree to know that my knife if not functioning as it's supposed to. Just like I don't need to be a meteorologist to know when it is raining outside.
Click to expand...

Luckily you don't re-read your own counter points.

Asinine? You mean like stating that a single experience was then replicated in every release of a new steel, which you didn't test?

If we're going on backyard science, I'd argue you were just using those diamond sticks wrong...which means we're both using comparable methods of assumption.

One thing is true...I've been collecting knives, many of which were KAI made, for 10+ years, with enough disposable income to have ran through most evey new release...and I call total BS on your hyperbole.
 
Paka said:
Longbow you say in your earlier post you can't think of a better folding knife, then you switch to "better made folding lock". Cold steel fanboys are unbearable, impossible to reason with them. They only register words like STRONG, LOCK, BAD ASS, LYNN THOMPSON, CHOP PIG.
Click to expand...

Essentially if Cold Steel didn't have the Triad Lock, they wouldn't have a company. I'm tired of hearing about the Triad Lock, and of it's greatness. CS is worse than Benchmade when it comes to pushing ONE lock type. (I wish Benchmade would get back into some non-axis stuff).
 
Quiet said:
What are you cutting that inacts shocks on a knife sufficient to disengage the bar? Again, you will notice that at no time have I spoken to the strength of the Triad lock. It is an exceptionally strong design, and quite impressive. However, it's primarily a marketing gimmick. If you are using a knife as a knife, other locks are just as good.

So, what you say is beside the point, is actually the point. The OP (and the other Cold Steel fans) has the assertion that somehow Cold Steel knives are better for "hard use"* than Zero Tolerance knives. I disagree, and have not seen any factual, objective statements that disprove my stance from the Cold Steel fan club other than a bunch of statements about how "quite easy" it is for liner/frame locks to fail, and that ZT knives are "more likely" to fail.

Look, the fact is, any tool will fail when used in a manner for which it wasn't designed. Cold Steel knives are not objectively better than ZT knives. That's the fact of the matter. I'm sure Cold Steel knives make better pry-bars, or footrests for fat guys to stand on, but when was the last time you bought a knife because it made a good pry bar, or a foot rest for an obese gentleman?





*Which I'm starting to understand means "abuse and using a knife in place of some very-non-knife tool" to Cold Steel guys
Click to expand...

Let us suppose for a minute, that a person carries a Zero Tolerance knife. Why do they do so?

From the perspective of using a knife as a knife, an Opinel #8 is a much better knife, and costs less than $15 depending where you shop. So why carry a ZT560 which doesn't cut as well, is much heavier, and costs at least ten times as much?

Presumably the ZT560 owner carries it because it possesses some intangible quality that increases its value to him over the Opinel. It might be the machined titanium framelock, or the G10, or the ball bearing flipper, but none of those things actually matter when using a knife as a knife. They matter enough to him however that he's willing to put up with the weight and bulk of the ZT.

Perhaps the extra strength of the Tri-Ad lock will never be used by a person who carries a Cold Steel knife. However that strength, which is measurable, is an intangible that gives the knife extra value to him.

So yes, I agree, the value we place on a knife is subjective, and we each value different things even if they are hypotheticals. If we didn't this wouldn't be called Blade Forums, it'd be called Opinel Forums and we'd all be here discussing which stain and patina looks better together when we titivate our knives.
 
ursamajor said:
Lynn has nothing to really do with the new Cold Steel Lines, other than marketing-Demko does. I don't own a single cold steel folder with plastic handles-unless you consider G10 and steel to be plastic. Also, again, please tell me what ZT knife can compare to a Demko 4-Max, or made to order AD-10. And are you telling me that Andrew Demko flies over seas to make a knife and then imports it back?

Sorry. I am running out of polite ways to say that you don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

Well, it either that, or the Elmax in my 0561 really sucked, and is supposed to chip when you sharpen it on a diamond rod....*shrugs* It was an early run though.
Click to expand...

You're not helping Cold Steel's case very much with your posts.

The 4-Max looks like it's going to weigh quite a bit more and cost more than most ZTs. The advantage that Cold Steel's new XHP folders have, especially over comparable ZT folders, is their lower cost and lower weight, but not in this case. Is the 4-Max stronger? Probably, but it's also not really comparable to most ZT models because of its $325 price tag and 9 ounce weight.

An AD-10 is upwards of $950 and not commonly available as Mr. Demko can only make so many knives per year.

ZT has had heat treat problems in the past, but a production error like that shouldn't be used to dismiss a company's products as inferior, especially if the issue was promptly corrected. If Benchmade produced a set of faulty Axis locks that was quickly corrected, for example, then it would be unfair to dismiss Axis Lock Benchmades as a category or the particular affected model after the correction of the issue.

NB: That doesn't mean the company with the production error shouldn't be criticized - they should, because products are not supposed to leave the factory with serious defects. But when comparing the products themselves, it's unfair to compare a product which is inferior simply because it has a production error.
 
Last edited:
J_Curd said:
Luckily you don't re-read your own counter points.

Asinine? You mean like stating that a single experience was then replicated in every release of a new steel, which you didn't test?

If we're going on backyard science, I'd argue you were just using those diamond sticks wrong...which means we're both using comparable methods of assumption.

One thing is true...I've been collecting knives, many of which were KAI made, for 10+ years, with enough disposable income to have ran through most evey new release...and I call total BS on your hyperbole.
Click to expand...

Dogs bark, birds fly, water is wet, fire is hot, and KAI jacks up the HT in early runs of new steels. Anyone who says differently is either lying or trying to sell something.
 
asdf12345 said:
For your information, it was not one example but several examples of broken Contego backspacers over a span of years. Two or three more examples were added in that very thread you commented on. As mentioned before, the backspacer problems reported on forums are not representative of the number of problematic backspacers in existing knives, since not everyone frequents the forums or posts about their experiences, and because many knives aren't exposed to the usage that might cause the backspacer issue to surface. A "hard use" folder that can't be dropped from 3 feet because there's a chance that the scales' structural support might shatter? Yeah, hard use, sure. If you're looking for a hard use Benchmade folder, just avoid the risk by looking at another model that hasn't had any reported issues with its backspacer or standoffs in similar conditions.

As far as framelocks go, I think you may have the wrong idea about what I'm saying. I could not care less that the Triad can withstand 700 pounds of force before breaking. What I do care about is that there has not been a single report, ever, of a Triad lock failing from light taps, hand pressure, by twisting the knife in the grip, or from light prying work.
Click to expand...

You said a whole lot of nothing just then.

I'm not going to continue that other argument here. I have repeatedly explained my reasoning and you continue to insist on being dense. Fine by me.

And who exactly cares if the Triad lock has never been reported as broken? You yourself brought up the fact that our worldview is skewed because not everyone's experiences are shared on this site, meaning that there could be plenty of knives breaking that just aren't being cried about here. Who buys cold steels the most? (keep in mind the fact that the ones on this site are only a very small portion of their customer base) I'll tell you who: mall ninjas who've graduated from Budk and that sit around playing badass with them, and a bunch of cheap asses who certainly aren't knife enthusiasts or active members of online knife forums. Now ask yourself, how exactly would either of these situation result in BF-reported failures of triad locks? And not to mention the fact that the knives are not particularly expensive and normally wouldn't elicit an extreme reaction and subsequent whine session should they break under use, unlike something with more money and prestige behind it.

And even if there AREN'T any triad locks breaking, I still don't give a crap. I have no use for a lock that is that strong, and fail to see why CS fanboys insist its necessary for everyone unless they want to loose fingers. Any way you slice it, it's all just pure BS with a steaming side of retarded.
 
asdf12345 said:
You're not helping Cold Steel's case very much with your posts.

The 4-Max looks like it's going to weigh quite a bit more and cost more than most ZTs. The advantage that Cold Steel's new XHP folders have is their lower cost and lower weight, but not in this case. Is the 4-Max stronger? Probably, but it's also not really comparable to most ZT models because of its $325 price tag and 9 ounce weight.

An AD-10 is upwards of $950 and not commonly available as Mr. Demko can only make so many knives per year.

ZT has had heat treat inconsistencies in the past, but a production error like that shouldn't be used to dismiss a company's products as inferior, especially if the issue was promptly corrected. If Benchmade produced a set of faulty Axis locks that was quickly corrected then it would be unfair to dismiss Axis Lock Benchmades or the particular affected model after the correction of the issue. NB: That doesn't mean the company with the production error shouldn't be criticized - they should, because products are not supposed to leave the factory with serious defects. But when comparing the products themselves, it's unfair to compare a product which is "inferior" because it has a production error.
Click to expand...

I am talking about the cream of the crop from KAI, and Demko. He mentioned limiteds from ZT, taking the designs to the upthed degree, I want to see a ZT (Hell even any knife Rick Hinderer or Mick Strider had to do with) even come close to approaching the perfection that is a Demko knife.
 
The name calling will stop. Discuss the knives only.

If you cannot prove something, it is an opinion. If it is an opinion, then you need to leave room for the other guy to voice his opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top