Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance

[longbow]

Here is something I did when folks are talking about smoothness. The U H I have is what I think smooth should be. No hitches in the giddyup to open the knife. No pauses no grinding, squeaking etc.etc. But it does take thumb pressure to open the knife. I like the knife this way cause when I open it I want to know I opened it. Now I loosened the pivot pretty good to the point where it flew open with a very slight wrist flick. I also noticed when doing this I would get side to side blade play, quite substantial actually when the blade was at the half way point. Kind of floppy. BUT when the lock engaged it was nearly as solid as a rock. Minuscule bit of side to side when locked, but side to side play none the less. Would it close accidentally nope. I cracked it pretty good on the side and on the spine. Matter of fact hitting it like that took a wee bit more of the play out of the blade when I would put it to the half closed position. Not all but was better than when initially the pivot was loosened.

I still want to know what you all use folders for. I don't know if I quite believe that someone used a folder to cut in a cat door in a door unless it was hollow core door or something like that. Again I just don't see someone using a folder for that task, maybe a keyhole saw or something. I am more than satisfied with the U H so much so I am going to get another and even maybe a few more, I like them that much and they don't break the bank. keepem sharp

 

[RBid]

I am posting this for a second time because it has been ignored by people who are saying that these can fail dangerously in real use.

Explain to me how this is in danger of failing despite pressure on the lockbar and upward pressure on the flipper, which also happens to be shielding my fingers? This is how they are held in actual use.

 

[toker]

So then why buy ANY folding knife billed for hard use?

- I don't. I buy knives that has a blade shape that I like and has premium steels and materials.

Marketing is marketing. Just because they bill it as hard use doesn't mean I'm going to abuse the knife to see what it can do.

 

[toker]

Explain to me how this is in danger of failing despite pressure on the lockbar and upward pressure on the flipper, which also happens to be shielding my fingers? This is how they are held in actual use.

- Simple. Attach a 100 lb. weight to the blade while the knife is in your hand or spine whack it like crazy. You know, like they do in the "real world" tests.

 

[Sosa]

I am posting this for a second time because it has been ignored by people who are saying that these can fail dangerously in real use.

Explain to me how this is in danger of failing despite pressure on the lockbar and upward pressure on the flipper, which also happens to be shielding my fingers? This is how they are held in actual use.

Suppose a few of your fingers were blown off in combat compromising the grip. Nice

 

[RBid]

I suppose I also didn't account for scenarios in which I may slip and fall such that jamming my folder in a vise, using a loose grip, was the only way to prevent a deadly collision. I think I will avoid garages, knife-weights, and combat.

 

[oregonknifenerd]

So then why buy ANY folding knife billed for hard use?

Because "hard use" means hard use.. if you are applying hard pressure in the reverse direction than intended then you aren't using it.
Spine what tests are pointless. Nobody argues about how fast a super car can do in reverse and then crowns a victor based on that rather than speed in the forward direction. Likewise, no one with any sense gives a flying F about which knives best pass a spine whack test. You are using the knife in a Positively Useless Direction (PUD) when you spine whack it. Quit being a bunch of PUD Whackers.

 

[Quiet]

Here is something I did when folks are talking about smoothness. The U H I have is what I think smooth should be. No hitches in the giddyup to open the knife. No pauses no grinding, squeaking etc.etc. But it does take thumb pressure to open the knife. I like the knife this way cause when I open it I want to know I opened it. Now I loosened the pivot pretty good to the point where it flew open with a very slight wrist flick. I also noticed when doing this I would get side to side blade play, quite substantial actually when the blade was at the half way point. Kind of floppy. BUT when the lock engaged it was nearly as solid as a rock. Minuscule bit of side to side when locked, but side to side play none the less. Would it close accidentally nope. I cracked it pretty good on the side and on the spine. Matter of fact hitting it like that took a wee bit more of the play out of the blade when I would put it to the half closed position. Not all but was better than when initially the pivot was loosened.

I still want to know what you all use folders for. I don't know if I quite believe that someone used a folder to cut in a cat door in a door unless it was hollow core door or something like that. Again I just don't see someone using a folder for that task, maybe a keyhole saw or something. I am more than satisfied with the U H so much so I am going to get another and even maybe a few more, I like them that much and they don't break the bank. keepem sharp

I think in asking this question, you're actually arguing for the OTHER side. What real bragging rights use is the Triad lock? I will never in my life stab my knife into something and use it as a step. I will never in my life jam my knife into a vise and then ask "Huh, now where should I hang this metal cable with 350lbs of weight plates?". That's our point. Zero Tolerance knives can do anything Cold Steel knives can realistically do, when we are talking about tasks involved these knives being used as knives. Wonder why Cold Steel doesn't place their knives up in any, you know, cutting tests versus other manufacturers' products. I mean, that's what knives are for, right? Cutting? They're not weight hangers, engine hoists, or stepstools. They're made to cut things.

Flat out. Using a knife as a knife renders the argument for or against the Triad lock versus other locks 100% irrelevant. All that you're left with if the Triad lock is out of the discussion is other knife factors as blade steel (where ZT wins, sorry), handle materials (again, check in the Win column for ZT), and of course smoothness (yep ZT again). And sorry, but if you have to dial your pivot pin halfway out of the knife, causing the blade to flop all over the place in order for it to flick open smoothly, in the words of the Internet: "You're doing it wrong."

Hey listen, if you love that knife, that's fine. Love you some CS Ultimate Hunter goodness. But there's no reason to say "I love this knife and it's objectively better than these other knives because of subjective reasons." That's just not going to fly. Enjoy your blade. I'll flick one of my multiple ZT 0801s (in Elmax) a few times, enjoying the amazing buttery smoothness, the rock solid lockup, and the beautiful (and beautifully sharp) blade and think "Man, glad I don't have to halfway disassemble this knife in order for it to flip smoothly." Your mileage may vary.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The 350 is a liner lock, not a frame lock, so gripping it like the 566 wouldn't help.

We might as well ask, why would anyone want to flip a knife, and what's so special about titanium framelocks (soft galling against steel) or ball bearing pivots? You can get those features for about $60 if you know where to shop.

To each their own. I baby my knives anyway, so the increased strength of the Tri-Ad is unnecessary, but it's like the safety features on a car. If you need them you've stuffed up somewhere, but they're nice to have.

And for all the claim by some that titanium is a lighter material (and it is) why are knives made with it so darn heavy?

 

[RBid]

The 350 is a liner lock, not a frame lock, so gripping it like the 566 wouldn't help.

Correct. If the title hadn't been "CS vs ZT", if the original post hadn't included a broad knock on ZT as a brand for hard use, and if the OP hadn't tried to turn this silly video into evidence of CS superiority over the ZT brand, I wouldn't have posted that.

 

[poolhustler]

I think in asking this question, you're actually arguing for the OTHER side. What real bragging rights use is the Triad lock? I will never in my life stab my knife into something and use it as a step. I will never in my life jam my knife into a vise and then ask "Huh, now where should I hang this metal cable with 350lbs of weight plates?". That's our point. Zero Tolerance knives can do anything Cold Steel knives can realistically do, when we are talking about tasks involved these knives being used as knives. Wonder why Cold Steel doesn't place their knives up in any, you know, cutting tests versus other manufacturers' products. I mean, that's what knives are for, right? Cutting? They're not weight hangers, engine hoists, or stepstools. They're made to cut things.

Flat out. Using a knife as a knife renders the argument for or against the Triad lock versus other locks 100% irrelevant. All that you're left with if the Triad lock is out of the discussion is other knife factors as blade steel (where ZT wins, sorry), handle materials (again, check in the Win column for ZT), and of course smoothness (yep ZT again). And sorry, but if you have to dial your pivot pin halfway out of the knife, causing the blade to flop all over the place in order for it to flick open smoothly, in the words of the Internet: "You're doing it wrong."

Hey listen, if you love that knife, that's fine. Love you some CS Ultimate Hunter goodness. But there's no reason to say "I love this knife and it's objectively better than these other knives because of subjective reasons." That's just not going to fly. Enjoy your blade. I'll flick one of my multiple ZT 0801s (in Elmax) a few times, enjoying the amazing buttery smoothness, the rock solid lockup, and the beautiful (and beautifully sharp) blade and think "Man, glad I don't have to halfway disassemble this knife in order for it to flip smoothly." Your mileage may vary.

HOLY CRAP........someone actually talking common sense ..........WTF has this forum come to???

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Since cutting is just a matter of edge and blade geometry it's pretty pointless for any manufacturer to pit their knives against another's based on that. Practically speaking an Opinel #8 will outcut knives a hundred times its $8 price, and from what I've seen of them ZT do have remarkably thick blades. For slicing I prefer a thin full flat grind, but a deep hollow grind works okay too.

 

[Quiet]

Since cutting is just a matter of edge and blade geometry it's pretty pointless for any manufacturer to pit their knives against another's based on that. Practically speaking an Opinel #8 will outcut knives a hundred times its $8 price, and from what I've seen of them ZT do have remarkably thick blades. For slicing I prefer a thin full flat grind, but a deep hollow grind works okay too.

So, let me ask, should I just glue a knife-blade onto a brick, and then brag about how my new KnifeBrick2000 was better than other knives because it was better at smashing cheeseburgers into a flattened mess? I mean, it would totally be better at doing that than a Zero Tolerance anything. So, by the same logic being used by CS-Bros in this thread, that would mean my new KnifeBrick2000 was better...right? It would almost certainly cost less!

I mean, that's what I'd do. Just put up a bunch of videos with me wearing a vaguely Aryan nation looking "uniform" while using my KnifeBrick2000 to smash a variety of food items. I think they'd be a hit. And then I'd just never put the KB2K up against other company's knives in any cutting competition because that'd just be "pointless". :thumbup:

 

[J_Curd]

I am posting this for a second time because it has been ignored by people who are saying that these can fail dangerously in real use.

Explain to me how this is in danger of failing despite pressure on the lockbar and upward pressure on the flipper, which also happens to be shielding my fingers? This is how they are held in actual use.

Cause the arguments presented are nonsense. That's why.

AND.

FOR THE RECORD.

All the CS fans posting about locks haven't mentioned, bar none, the strongest CS lock...

The Pocket Bushman.

Rookies.

#dropsthemic

 

[adnj]

I have never had a lock fail on me. Even with a cheaper knife like a Gerber and I am in the jungle about 3 days a week.

 

[Geneo]

To OP, You are entangled in both Cold Steel and ZT marketing and are not considering the knife as a tool.

 

[bodog]

Because "hard use" means hard use.. if you are applying hard pressure in the reverse direction than intended then you aren't using it.
Spine what tests are pointless. Nobody argues about how fast a super car can do in reverse and then crowns a victor based on that rather than speed in the forward direction. Likewise, no one with any sense gives a flying F about which knives best pass a spine whack test. You are using the knife in a Positively Useless Direction (PUD) when you spine whack it. Quit being a bunch of PUD Whackers.

You could probably direct your statement to the guy I was asking my question to. As far as I'm concerned I think the whole "hard use" thing is kind of silly anyway, but if you're going to call your knife a "hard use" knife then it should probably take more than light pressure to cause the lock to fail. But that's just me. I'd rather just have a normal knife that cuts really well made with good materials and craftsmanship. I'm not im a fan of hard use knives then saying it's ok if a knife marketed as hard use fails pretty easily when tested. I'd much rather see knife companies market their tools for "reasonable use" made for "reasonable" people who would be proud to pass along their high quality tool to the next generation. Some companies try to keep that in mind when they produce a high cost tool. Some choose to go other directions. I'm not going to say "man, I love a knife that cuts really well" then defend a company the produces a .50" thick steel bar when people say it doesn't cut well.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Cause the arguments presented are nonsense. That's why.

AND.

FOR THE RECORD.

All the CS fans posting about locks haven't mentioned, bar none, the strongest CS lock...

The Pocket Bushman.

Rookies.

#dropsthemic

I quite like the Pocket Bushman, and it's good that they're bringing it out in BD1, but its marketing seems more directed towards it being the knife you carry when you don't have a fixed blade. Hype aside, I'd prefer to have a fixed blade. Let's face it, CS makes some decent budget fixed blades that seem to do everything the Pocket Bushman does, often for less money.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Here is something I did when folks are talking about smoothness. The U H I have is what I think smooth should be. No hitches in the giddyup to open the knife. No pauses no grinding, squeaking etc.etc. But it does take thumb pressure to open the knife. I like the knife this way cause when I open it I want to know I opened it. Now I loosened the pivot pretty good to the point where it flew open with a very slight wrist flick. I also noticed when doing this I would get side to side blade play, quite substantial actually when the blade was at the half way point. Kind of floppy. BUT when the lock engaged it was nearly as solid as a rock. Minuscule bit of side to side when locked, but side to side play none the less. Would it close accidentally nope. I cracked it pretty good on the side and on the spine. Matter of fact hitting it like that took a wee bit more of the play out of the blade when I would put it to the half closed position. Not all but was better than when initially the pivot was loosened.

I still want to know what you all use folders for. I don't know if I quite believe that someone used a folder to cut in a cat door in a door unless it was hollow core door or something like that. Again I just don't see someone using a folder for that task, maybe a keyhole saw or something. I am more than satisfied with the U H so much so I am going to get another and even maybe a few more, I like them that much and they don't break the bank. keepem sharp

I dont even know if that other story was true. I think it was more of an exercise in the fact that anyone on the internet can make claims as to what they use their knives for. And believe it or not their are a lot of liars on the internet. Some people just dont want to be wrong and will simply create any story they feel supports their beliefs and who is to argue with them? One of these lies is "bearing pivots are MUCH more prone to failure due to debris" I have seen this BS parroted so many times on this forum you would think it HAD to be rooted in some sort of truth or else people wouldnt say it so much. But to this day I have never, not once heards someone actually claim it to have happened to them. A lot of theories on how it can, does and no matter what will. Yet to this day no one has posted the proof of it happening. And when you show the videos of them being dropped in buckets of nasty crap its nothing but crickets from the peanut gallery. Yet these same people love videos proving other things.

 

[LadyEarth]

I've had a ZT 200 lock fail on me when I used it out in the trails during work. That wasn't fun.

Too bad Cold Steel used a known weak lock ZT Knife for his example instead of something like a ZT 550.

I would buy more cold steel products if they were made in America but alas, they're not. Plus their very plasticy handle isn't fun to hold.