Cold Steel VS Zero Tolerance

[PURPLEDC]

So, let me ask, should I just glue a knife-blade onto a brick, and then brag about how my new KnifeBrick2000 was better than other knives because it was better at smashing cheeseburgers into a flattened mess? I mean, it would totally be better at doing that than a Zero Tolerance anything. So, by the same logic being used by CS-Bros in this thread, that would mean my new KnifeBrick2000 was better...right? It would almost certainly cost less!

I mean, that's what I'd do. Just put up a bunch of videos with me wearing a vaguely Aryan nation looking "uniform" while using my KnifeBrick2000 to smash a variety of food items. I think they'd be a hit. And then I'd just never put the KB2K up against other company's knives in any cutting competition because that'd just be "pointless". :thumbup:

Dude, if your knifebrick2000 doesnt have a triad lock I dont want to hear about it, lol.

 

[asdf12345]

I'm sorry, what was that? Something something more suitable for hard use something Cold Steel something?

So, in other words, I was taking your inference that Cold Steels are "more suitable" to mean that ZTs are less suitable (you know, since the topic of this sordid discussion is ZT and CS). I'm sorry for your poor use of logic, and even more sorry for your sad attempt at weaseling out of being called on what you tried to say. LOL Good times, gotta love it.

Just admit that cheap knives with inferior materials made with a really strong, hard-to-disengage-with-one-hand lock is your jam, and leave all your weak excuses at the door, yeah? :thumbup:

Instead of just making fun of my statements, can you tell me where my reasoning went wrong? You say my logic is poor, can you expound on that? I'm not weaseling out of anything; you intentionally suggested that I was saying that ZTs are junk when I was not.

If I'm looking for a folding knife to see hard use, why would I not want the knife that weighs less?

Why would I not want the knife that costs less than half of the other one?

Why would I not want the knife with a longer blade length?

Why would I not want the knife with a pivot that's less susceptible to debris encountered while cutting things, especially outdoors?

Why would I not want the knife that affords a more secure grip?

Why would I not want the knife with the lock that's less likely to have issues and need tweaking?

Why would I not want the knife that gives me redundant lock strength?

Like I said before, ZT's are better knives if you want those fun to play with actions, the exotic high end steels, the fit and finish and the cachet of owning a premium knife. They're cooler, more refined and command more respect on the forums. That doesn't mean they're the best choice for hard use, and certainly doesn't mean they're a better choice than Cold Steel.

That video should have alleviated any and all concerns. It seems you are clinging to what ifs for the sake of doing so or as an alternative to saying your worries may be unfounded.

One of the reasons to have bearings in a folding knife is for smoothness. You lose the smoothness once a bunch of wood chips and dirt get into the bearings. Heck, you lose the smoothness after too much pocket lint gets in there. So in a knife for hard use where the knife will likely be exposed to these particles - why?

mean, that's what I'd do. Just put up a bunch of videos with me wearing a vaguely Aryan nation looking "uniform" while using my KnifeBrick2000 to smash a variety of food items. I think they'd be a hit. And then I'd just never put the KB2K up against other company's knives in any cutting competition because that'd just be "pointless".

I think everyone agrees that CS's marketing is silly and cringe inducing. Why not criticize ZT's marketing while you're at it? At least Cold Steel, tasteless as their copywriting might be, has a point when they claim that their folders are strong.

 

[Freman Bloodglaive]

So, let me ask, should I just glue a knife-blade onto a brick, and then brag about how my new KnifeBrick2000 was better than other knives because it was better at smashing cheeseburgers into a flattened mess? I mean, it would totally be better at doing that than a Zero Tolerance anything. So, by the same logic being used by CS-Bros in this thread, that would mean my new KnifeBrick2000 was better...right? It would almost certainly cost less!

I mean, that's what I'd do. Just put up a bunch of videos with me wearing a vaguely Aryan nation looking "uniform" while using my KnifeBrick2000 to smash a variety of food items. I think they'd be a hit. And then I'd just never put the KB2K up against other company's knives in any cutting competition because that'd just be "pointless". :thumbup:

*scratching head*

I was given to understand that the role of a folding knife is to remain open until you want it closed (hence the lock tests) not to squash cheeseburgers, but whatever you enjoy is fine with me. If we were going to do a cutting test, how would we pick the requirements? I'm fairly sure the new BD1 4" Voyager clip point with the full flat grind, would outslice a ZT560 if we wanted to slice something like tomatoes, but on the other hand the Elmax steel would retain an edge much longer if we were cutting manila rope, as it ought to given it's nearly three times the price.

 

[Shotgun]

So then why buy ANY folding knife billed for hard use?

A question left unanswered...


Oregon beer is awesome.

 

[toker]

One of the reasons to have bearings in a folding knife is for smoothness. You lose the smoothness once a bunch of wood chips and dirt get into the bearings. Heck, you lose the smoothness after too much pocket lint gets in there. So in a knife for hard use where the knife will likely be exposed to these particles - why?

- ZT uses the KVT caged bearing system. It's fairly well sealed from debris and lint. I've never had lint in the pivot of any of the KVT knives I've owned. I can't imagine how wood chips would get in there either. Even if you somehow did get something stuck in the pivot, I don't see how that would prevent you from opening the knife.

 

[PURPLEDC]

One of the reasons to have bearings in a folding knife is for smoothness. You lose the smoothness once a bunch of wood chips and dirt get into the bearings. Heck, you lose the smoothness after too much pocket lint gets in there. So in a knife for hard use where the knife will likely be exposed to these particles - why?

I have carried bearing flippers exclusively for years. I have NEVER had the issues you speak of arise. EVER. Have you ever even had one or are you just parroting?

 

[J_Curd]

Instead of just making fun of my statements, can you tell me where my reasoning went wrong? You say my logic is poor, can you expound on that? I'm not weaseling out of anything; you intentionally suggested that I was saying that ZTs are junk when I was not.

If I'm looking for a folding knife to see hard use, why would I not want the knife that weighs less?

Why would I not want the knife that costs less than half of the other one?

Why would I not want the knife with a longer blade length?

Why would I not want the knife with a pivot that's less susceptible to debris encountered while cutting things, especially outdoors?

Why would I not want the knife that affords a more secure grip?

Why would I not want the knife with the lock that's less likely to have issues and need tweaking?

Why would I not want the knife that gives me redundant lock strength?

Like I said before, ZT's are better knives if you want those fun to play with actions, the exotic high end steels, the fit and finish and the cachet of owning a premium knife. They're cooler, more refined and command more respect on the forums. That doesn't mean they're the best choice for hard use, and certainly doesn't mean they're a better choice than Cold Steel.



One of the reasons to have bearings in a folding knife is for smoothness. You lose the smoothness once a bunch of wood chips and dirt get into the bearings. Heck, you lose the smoothness after too much pocket lint gets in there. So in a knife for hard use where the knife will likely be exposed to these particles - why?



I think everyone agrees that CS's marketing is silly and cringe inducing. Why not criticize ZT's marketing while you're at it? At least Cold Steel, tasteless as their copywriting might be, has a point when they claim that their folders are strong.

Hey Lynn...your market video was a pathetic cheap shot. Many of us laughed about it. Quit while you're ahead.

 

[asdf12345]

- ZT uses the KVT caged bearing system. It's fairly well sealed from debris and lint. I've never had lint in the pivot of any of the KVT knives I've owned. I can't imagine how wood chips would get in there either. Even if you somehow did get something stuck in the pivot, I don't see how that would prevent you from opening the knife.

Read what I said earlier - I never said that there was any risk of not being able to open the knife or some part failing.

 

[Quiet]

Instead of just making fun of my statements, can you tell me where my reasoning went wrong? You say my logic is poor, can you expound on that? I'm not weaseling out of anything; you intentionally suggested that I was saying that ZTs are junk when I was not.

If I'm looking for a folding knife to see hard use, why would I not want the knife that weighs less?

Why would I not want the knife that costs less than half of the other one?

Why would I not want the knife with a longer blade length?

Why would I not want the knife with a pivot that's less susceptible to debris encountered while cutting things, especially outdoors?

Why would I not want the knife that affords a more secure grip?

Why would I not want the knife with the lock that's less likely to have issues and need tweaking?

Why would I not want the knife that gives me redundant lock strength?

Like I said before, ZT's are better knives if you want those fun to play with actions, the exotic high end steels, the fit and finish and the cachet of owning a premium knife. They're cooler, more refined and command more respect on the forums. That doesn't mean they're the best choice for hard use, and certainly doesn't mean they're a better choice than Cold Steel.



One of the reasons to have bearings in a folding knife is for smoothness. You lose the smoothness once a bunch of wood chips and dirt get into the bearings. Heck, you lose the smoothness after too much pocket lint gets in there. So in a knife for hard use where the knife will likely be exposed to these particles - why?

404 Objective Reason That ZT Knives Aren't Just as Hard Use as Cold Steel Not Found


By the way, if you have to start using terminology like "Well, see, it's more likely that ZT's locks will fail under hard use*" then sorry, your argument fails.



*When using the knife as a KNIFE and not an engine hoist, or place to hang your weights, or a place for a fat guy in an Aryan Nation uniform to stand.

 

[asdf12345]

Hey Lynn...your market video was a pathetic cheap shot. Many of us laughed about it. Quit while you're ahead.

"Cheap shot". Okay. Says the person who doesn't offer any counterargument at all. If I'm wrong, then just tell me why.

 

[bodog]

- ZT uses the KVT caged bearing system. It's fairly well sealed from debris and lint. I've never had lint in the pivot of any of the KVT knives I've owned. I can't imagine how wood chips would get in there either.

I've had the KVT "fail" on me twice. I haven't used bearing pivot knives from any other company and I'm pretty sure that it would apply equally across the board unless they come up with a sealed pivot. Once I took a knife with bearings to a beach. That was a bad idea. Sand all up in the bearings, I thought I really damaged the knife because of how gritty it became. Another time I was drinking some beer and cutting up oranges to put in the beer as the poker night continued. By the time I was done I cut up probably 5 oranges over the course of maybe 5 hours. Washing with soap and hot water did nothing to help my knife being basically frozen shut because of all the pulp and juice and whatnot getting in there. I had to disassemble the knife and clean pretty hard to get the bearings rolling in the cage again. I didn't use solvent as I didn't want to inadvertently mess the knife up. So two places I know I can't carry and use a knife with open bearings. A sandy beach or when cutting up fruit. Seems someone would want to be able to do that with an all around knife. That's not a knock on any specifc company as multiple companies use them. Just giving a testimony as to what I've personally seen, that's all.

And I hesitate to use the word fail because it's not so much a failure as what it is a limitation of the design. The lock failing on those two specifc knives is a failure, though, and should not be defended. The third one is questionable because it at least handled reasonable pressure before slipping. That's not too bad. The first two knives were really pretty much slip joints. It's pretty hard to come up with a reason a "locking" knife should close that easily. And that's not saying the entire company is bad or anything. They make other knives that can stomp the two in that video.

 

[Goosey]

404 Objective Reason That ZT Knives Aren't Just as Hard Use as Cold Steel Not Found

When "using a knife as a knife", my Endura and even my GEC barlow or Douk Douk are just as "hard use" as both ZT and CS knives

 

[J_Curd]

"Cheap shot". Okay. Says the person who doesn't offer any counterargument at all. If I'm wrong, then just tell me why.

You're doing it wrong.

Goosey gets it.

 

[Quiet]

*scratching head*

I was given to understand that the role of a folding knife is to remain open until you want it closed (hence the lock tests) not to squash cheeseburgers, but whatever you enjoy is fine with me. If we were going to do a cutting test, how would we pick the requirements? I'm fairly sure the new BD1 4" Voyager clip point with the full flat grind, would outslice a ZT560 if we wanted to slice something like tomatoes, but on the other hand the Elmax steel would retain an edge much longer if we were cutting manila rope, as it ought to given it's nearly three times the price.

Odd, I've never had a Zero Tolerance framelock close on me. Therefore, I'd say those locks work just fine. I've carved wood, I've cut up food, opened mail, trimmed nails, snipped off a shirt thread, and have even done light prying with my Zero Tolerance knives and have never had a single one fail. So, explain to me how a Triad lock is necessary, and makes Cold Steel knives objectively better for hard use.

The fact is: the lock doesn't. And that's what CS-Bros can't handle. Hell, you can get "hard use"* out of a $35 Buck 110. So what? The Triad lock only seems to be good for a few outlying "uses" for knives that folks who respect knives would never use knives for.



*Gotta love nebulous, unquantifiable terms

 

[Quiet]

When "using a knife as a knife", my Endura and even my GEC barlow or Douk Douk are just as "hard use" as both ZT and CS knives

Endura and Barlows? Garbage, I can't suspend 350 lbs, or a fat guy in an Aryan Nation uniform from them so they're worthless for hard use. :thumbup:

 

[asdf12345]

404 Objective Reason That ZT Knives Aren't Just as Hard Use as Cold Steel Not Found


By the way, if you have to start using terminology like "Well, see, it's more likely that ZT's locks will fail under hard use*" then sorry, your argument fails.



*When using the knife as a KNIFE and not an engine hoist, or place to hang your weights, or a place for a fat guy in an Aryan Nation uniform to stand.

Oh, I didn't say that they're more likely to fail under hard use, although that certainly could be true. They're absolutely more likely to have issues out of the box in which the lock can be overcome by light taps or hand pressure, though.

Again, preaching to the choir - we get it - Cold Steel's marketing is silly. At least they don't make intentionally vague statements like "built like a tank" without any sort of demonstrations to back their claim.

If my points I outlined are wrong, please tell me why instead of doing the whole hilarious cynical Cold Steel marketing routine.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Read what I said earlier - I never said that there was any risk of not being able to open the knife or some part failing.

And again have you EVERY had it actually happen to you? Or is this just more of your potential what ifs? If you apply this much suspicion with all the other time tested technology I would find it surprising if you can make toast without talking yourself out of it with all the possible issues that you think would arise.

 

[J_Curd]

Toasters can castrate you...

IF. YOU. ARE. DOING. IT. WRONG.

 

[bodog]

And again have you EVERY had it actually happen to you? Or is this just more of your potential what ifs? If you apply this much suspicion with all the other time tested technology I would find it surprising if you can make toast without talking yourself out of it with all the possible issues that you think would arise.

I have, refer to my previous post.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I've had the KVT "fail" on me twice. I haven't used bearing pivot knives from any other company and I'm pretty sure that it would apply equally across the board unless they come up with a sealed pivot. Once I took a knife with bearings to a beach. That was a bad idea. Sand all up in the bearings, I thought I really damaged the knife because of how gritty it became. Another time I was drinking some beer and cutting up oranges to put in the beer as the poker night continued. By the time I was done I cut up probably 5 oranges over the course of maybe 5 hours. Washing with soap and hot water did nothing to help my knife being basically frozen shut because of all the pulp and juice and whatnot getting in there. I had to disassemble the knife and clean pretty hard to get the bearings rolling in the cage again. I didn't use solvent as I didn't want to inadvertently mess the knife up. So two places I know I can't carry and use a knife with open bearings. A sandy beach or when cutting up fruit. Seems someone would want to be able to do that with an all around knife. That's not a knock on any specifc company as multiple companies use them. Just giving a testimony as to what I've personally seen, that's all.

I dont want to mess the knife up but with a low risk solvent like lighter fluid but I chose to cut up 5 acidic oranges? Every time I cut up oranges I dont even manage to get juice on the handle of my knife. Sorry man, call me suspicious. But when I see these knives getting dunked in buckets of crap unscathed part of me thinks something isnt adding up. And your the very first person that I have EVER heard reporting a problem with bearing knives. I am not saying it for sure didnt happen but I cant sit here and say I believe you either.