Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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And yet somehow I manage to churn out 35+ hours per week of solid design work and code, while still getting back to customer inquiries (most of which require long, considered answers) within 24 hours. And I'm a one-man show.

72 hours of radio silence is *not* express. Particularly after pooping the bed on two hard commitments.

Also, they have people whose JOB is ostensibly is to respond to those emails and answer the phones, so that strawman "who'd make the knives?!" Is silly.

If you want to excuse away crummy customer service based on company size, then that's your prerogative, but I think it's absurd.

It's survive's prerogative to decide whether responsive customer service is important. It's clear their word is not.

It's my prerogative to rescind my patronage of their business.

Exactly *what* is controversial about that to you? This is how business works: if your customers start to think that your businesses practices aren't up to snuff, they stop being your customers. I mean... duh.


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I also agree with this as a "one-band-man" type of operation but for full disclosure purposes, I am neither a manufacturer nor an assembler/finisher of products and merchandise. Nevertheless, smooth customer service and very timely fulfillment of orders are of imperative and crucial importance to my operational niche!
 
I also agree with this as a "one-band-man" type of operation but for full disclosure purposes, I am neither a manufacturer nor an assembler/finisher of products and merchandise. Nevertheless, smooth customer service and very timely fulfillment of orders are of imperative and crucial importance to my operational niche!

My grandfather and father ran a manufacturing business for over 40 years, that grew from my grandfather's basement into a company that had over 100 employees, and a very good reputation in their sector. My grandfather used to say "each time you deliver your product to your customers, you have to get exactly two things right, every time: your product, and your delivery".

I'm of the mind that it's an ethic that applies equally, no matter what the business happens to be.
 
It's been 72 hours since blowing past the second hard deadline they committed to me directly on my factory 2nd, and two follow up emails from me, and not a one response from the SK folks on an update. And I can't raise them on the phone to request a refund.

I only tender this update because I previously mentioned that I'd be pursuing a refund if a meaningful update from them wasn't forthcoming, so I feel compelled to be transparent about how things go.

I'm sure I'll get through eventually, but honestly, enough is enough. I'd rather spend my cash with a company that has some basic customer service standards.


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I know some will disagree but this is really the heart of the issue right now. "In a couple months". "In a few months". "In 15 days". "On Monday". "Next week".
Why oh WHY does S!K continue down this road of promising a ship time and NEVER come through? STOP doing it and just be honest for Christ's sake! STOP telling anyone WHEN their knife will ship when you KNOW it WILL NOT. That is fundamentally WRONG.

At this point, I'd rather you just tell me straight up, "Ronnie, I know we told you, "a couple months" in the sales thread for the 2.7 back in July, and danced around the issue ever since". "The truth is you probably won't see your knife until after the beginning of 2017 and it could be as late as 2018". That would be terrible but at least it would be honest and would be the truth for once.

This will sound strange but I'm angry that they've made me so angry. I'm sad at the same time. I want so bad for the situation to be different and to remain a fan AND a customer. It's starting to look like a meltdown at this point. All credibility is lost and the death toll of customers continues to mount. Each time they promise someone and don't deliver, the list of customers who go elsewhere grows.

How many other makers have gone down this road and ended up in the GBU and we never see them again, and some for less transgressions than we've seen here?

I saw some criticism (albeit legitimate at the time) of using the words "lie" and "deceive". I hope I don't alienate any of my friends here but I'll try to have the courage to ask the question that everyone is thinking and no one else wants to ask.

When does the way S!K is treating it's customers (Timichango, ncrockclimb, and many others) become lying, and deception?

You gave multiple commitments to a customer (and many others), and never lived up to that promise. Now you won't answer the phone or acknowledge the messages from those customers?

I guess I'm starting to see the real business side of S!K. The members on this forum make up such a small part of their business that they could care less what they promise and have taken the old "head in the sand" approach to our legitimate concerns about being lied to and deceived.

There. I said it. And I love BF and the friends I've made here but someone needed to call it for what it is. Burn me at the stake if you wish. I have a lot more important things in my life than this right now.
 
It amazes me how people buy an item from a small company like SK! And demand express and personal service.
If guy was on the phone non stop talking to people like you, how would the knives be made ?

With all due respect, I think you're missing the point. Unless I read it wrong, Timichango was not expecting anything other than what he was told. Then when it did not happen, he inquired (multiple times) only to be given more commitments on specific ship days and none of them happened either. Now he's being ghosted by the company.

How many times should any of us allow ANY company to continue to tell us they will fulfill our orders by a certain time, and NEVER meet those timelines, only to make even more false commitments when we contact them. Think of any other business where you would have that much patience if you had been told multiple times that your purchase would be shipped, and it never happened.
 
Unless I read it wrong, Timichango was not expecting anything other than what he was told. Then when it did not happen, he inquired (multiple times) only to be given more commitments on specific ship days and none of them happened either. Now he's being ghosted by the company.

That's accurate. I have another post after that, above, articulating yet another deadline for shipping: this coming Monday. I'm very curious — for mostly academic reasons at this point — what's going to happen on Monday.

Nevermind the vague pantomimes concerning November.
 
After all this time I forgot the title to this post, but I came to the realization that this really is twelve pages of folks expressing their concerns and now I feel better.
 
That's accurate. I have another post after that, above, articulating yet another deadline for shipping: this coming Monday. I'm very curious — for mostly academic reasons at this point — what's going to happen on Monday.

Nevermind the vague pantomimes concerning November.


Update: I just got my shipping notification. That puts'em at a 1:3 deliveries:commitments ratio.

Anyways, credit where it's due: this time they came through.
 
Update: I just got my shipping notification. That puts'em at a 1:3 deliveries:commitments ratio.

Anyways, credit where it's due: this time they came through.

Well shit!
I don't know if the "better late than never" analogy works here, but hopefully you'll be able to enjoy it without having flashbacks of the issues surrounding the proposed shipping dates.
 
Well shit!
I don't know if the "better late than never" analogy works here, but hopefully you'll be able to enjoy it without having flashbacks of the issues surrounding the proposed shipping dates.

Better late than never does ring true.

Am I likely to do business directly with Survive again? No.

Will I be able to enjoy the knife anyways? Yep. For sure. It's a tool — it'll stand on its own merits, I'm sure. I'm a bit emotionally detached from it, given that I was pretty ready to be try calling them up again tomorrow morning and requesting a refund, but they narrowly beat the buzzer, and now it's in the mail. So I'll use it without hesitation.

Now — whether or not it'll hold its own and earn it's keep beside the other excellent knives I've acquired during the rigamarole? We'll see. There's a lot of anticipation and hype to live up to at this point.
 
Can't wait to see your gollik, I'm not familiar with that.

CPK is a worthy challenger :D

Is the ambush gen 1 or 2?
 
Can't wait to see your gollik, I'm not familiar with that.

CPK is a worthy challenger :D

Is the ambush gen 1 or 2?

Gollik: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1435615

Ambush: 2nd gen

As it happens, the initial perceived wait for GSO knives was what led to me buying the alpha - before I knew about Monday sales or factory 2nds.

The bad, thick, uneven, and generally obtuse grind on the alpha was what led to me regrinding it (and buying some sigma stones in order to DO that). It was the first BRKT I've owned with bad cutting geometry out of the box. Really disappointing before thinning it out substantially (and ruining the nice stonewashed finish in the process).

Improved the performance greatly, but still wondered about the survives, (which sound like just dandy slicers out of the box) and I found out about the Monday sales. Ordered up a 4.7 CFV.

Then, while waiting, I stumbled across the Gollik on the exchange, and grabbed it too.

Now I've got the 4.7 and CPK Field Knife inbound, so there's a bit of a grudge match heating up over here :)


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Thanks for the link, timi. Great looking knife and awesome review. I hope you're able to go that in depth for a review with your incoming GSO!
 
Starting with post #177 we have some real concern and confusion in the 4.1 thread.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1404366-4-1-thread/page9

I'd like to see that thread a spot to talk about how much we love that model and we can discuss our concerns here.

I think the confusion around these 4.1 seconds are the last thing we needed. I don't want to get too dark, but with the current presentation, I'm not interested in putting money down. I really hope SURVIVE! can chime in and put our fears to rest.

As far as the seconds being sold before firsts.......... from a business stand point, I get it. If there's products to be sold and money to be gained, ok. If the selling of seconds is making my first possible, do what you gotta do. I'd rather be second in line then not get my knife at all.

From my own stand point, I'd like a little more incentive for investing a year ago. If we knew at the time that by helping with the starter I'd watch and wait for several months as others get their flawless (according to customer reviews) seconds, I'm not sure what I would have done. I read all the fine print at the time, but I thought paying first would get me served first.
 
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From my own stand point, I'd like a little more incentive for investing a year ago. If we knew at the time that by helping with the starter I'd watch and wait for several months as others get their flawless (according to customer reviews) seconds, I'm not sure what I would have done. I read all the fine print at the time, but I thought paying first would get me served first.

Well said SN! I ordered my 4.7 at the beginning of June last year and can't help but feel dissapointed every time I see someone unboxing a knife that they only ordered a few weeks ago. Not only that, but I just can't understand how the 4.7s were "ready to start shipping" back in December, but here we are 10 months later with some orders unfulfilled!

Unfortunately I strongly suspect there are a few critical flaws with the company. I sincerely hope one of those flaws isn't related to finances!!!!!

I'm very tempted to cancel my 6 and 4.5 orders.....
 
I am having a most difficult time reconciling any of it, except for some of the prophetic words put forth by @ncrockclimb. Looking at the situation through those lenses, then everything makes sense.
 
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I certainly don't believe that I suffer from the "instant gratification disease" just because I'm concerned about not receiving something I ordered 16 months ago!

I understand the whole philosophy behind shipping the "factory seconds" before the firsts, but many folks (some of whom are veteran knife connoisseurs) who received these knives say that they are flawless!

Was there a real need to manufacture and ship the cru forge 4.7s BEFORE fulfilling the pre orders for several other models?
 
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