Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates

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I'm brand new to Survive knives...pre-paid for a GSO-10...

I'm a Busse guy, just wanted to try out another blade comparable to my Battle Mistress from another maker in 3V...

I was unaware that there were concerns here. I had previously just heard sterling reviews of the blades...didn't realize the business model was open to so much negative scrutiny.

Would you cancel PayPal? Please advise.
 
There are no examples where S!K has not delivered. Many examples where they did not deliver on time. Their knives are superb. Only you can determine your own tolerance regarding the 10 preorder. Every example where people have cancelled orders directly through S!K have been serviced courteously. I do not recommend submitting a claim with PayPal, deal with S!K directly if you do decide to cancel. FWIW, I have the old GSO 10. I could not be happier, and the next Gen. knives I have are even better.
 
The gso 10 is very far down the production que. So just be aware you likely, bast on current and past lead times, be looking at 2+ years before you see your gso 10
 
PeteyTwoPointOne said:
I'm brand new to Survive knives...pre-paid for a GSO-10...

I'm a Busse guy, just wanted to try out another blade comparable to my Battle Mistress from another maker in 3V...

I was unaware that there were concerns here. I had previously just heard sterling reviews of the blades...didn't realize the business model was open to so much negative scrutiny.

Would you cancel PayPal? Please advise.
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McVeyMac said:
There are no examples where S!K has not delivered. Many examples where they did not deliver on time. Their knives are superb. Only you can determine your own tolerance regarding the 10 preorder. Every example where people have cancelled orders directly through S!K have been serviced courteously. I do not recommend submitting a claim with PayPal, deal with S!K directly if you do decide to cancel. FWIW, I have the old GSO 10. I could not be happier, and the next Gen. knives I have are even better.
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McVeyMac knows what he's talking about.

In the end you have to do what you're comfortable with. Like others, I'm frustrated, but I'm not ready to bail.
 
mlmcasual said:
Must be a short conversation once you tell them the lead times.

I do wear my Shirt as well..

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ncrockclimb said:
I think S!K is currently a house of cards that will fall in time. Nothing Ellie has said is going to result in the kind of change S!K needs to make. Unless they get some outside help (like a knowledgeable consultant that can teach them how to run a manufacturing business) and do a MAJOR overhaul of their operations, they are going to be in trouble. IMHO, it is just a matter of time…
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Times up, it's already happened...

BF has historically not been the place were you could say anything even remotely bad about Survive, lest you suffer the wrath of their fans (or fanboys, depending upon how cynical you are). My experience with trying to get a GSO 5.1 almost 2 years ago was nothing short of a joke; it took way longer then they projected, and it was far less than a quality product when it finally arrived. I sent that POS knife back for a refund, and the only reason I was able to actually get my money back is because PayPal reversed the charge (Survive was not the least bit cooperative or helpful in that regard).

My first inclination was to post something here so I could warn others that things might not be as good with this company as others would make them out to be, but frankly I didn't want to deal with all the BS that was likely to ensue so I simply walked away from all things Survive. It seems as though it has now become apparent the emperor isn't wearing any clothes after all, and that I may not be the only one who sees there's trouble afoot.

It's a shame when stuff like this happens, but unfortunately it does some times. BF was Survives one sanctuary, the place where they could seemingly do no wrong. The tide appears to have changed though, and now the momentum has shifted. I ended up getting a Knife Research Enki to replace the 5.1, and while it costs 2x as much it proved to be 5x as good. Personally I would rather not pay 3 bills for a knife, but in the end buy-once-cry-once works better for me. I love the Enki and haven't looked back since I made the switch.
 
Revolverrodger said:
I got my 4.7 3v as well as my 4.7 UB and I can nearly guarantee that you will love this model
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I have no doubt that I'll lurv this model, which is why I haven't cancelled my pre-order (from July last year). I'm hoping I'll get it sometime within the next 6 months......but I aint holding my breath!

I have however requested that SURVIVE! cancel my GSO 6 & 4.5 orders. I refuse to purchase another knife directly from this company until it has proven to me that it has rectified it's defective business model.
I'm not trying to persuade/convince anyone else to cancel their orders, but I do recommend all existing and potential SURVIVE! customers to read the opening post of this thread!!!

I sincerely hope that Guy and Ellie can quickly and efficiently get their business heading down the right path before they destroy the company's reputation.
It's obviously in everyone's best interests for this not to happen!
 
Thanks for the advice in the thread as well as the PM's & emails. :)

I'm spoiled from Busse, since we only have to wait 2 WEEKS for a knife over there. :rolleyes:

I jest ;), we're used to waiting a long time, in some cases.

The "two weeks" lead out is part of the culture for HOGS, totally expected, and cultivates monk-like patience.

But in every case we have ALWAYS been rewarded for our patience! :thumbup::D:thumbup:

Here @ Survive it seems like there's a undercurrent of mistrust. Over @ Busse Combat Co. it's more of a serial joke that everyone's in on. :p

I was more concerned, from the tone of some of the posts here, frankly that the company may fold before my pre-paid knife was delivered.

However, in spite of all that-- You guys helped convince me it's cool just to settle in and wait it out, thanks! :D
 
Petey, glad you're sticking around :thumbup:




theJman said:
and it was far less than a quality product when it finally arrived. I sent that POS knife back for a refund
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Wow! What was wrong with it? Sorry to hear you didn't have a better experience.
 
theJman said:
... and it was far less than a quality product when it finally arrived. I sent that POS knife back for a refund, and the only reason I was able to actually get my money back is because PayPal reversed the charge (Survive was not the least bit cooperative or helpful in that regard).
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I must say that this experience is completely contrary to mine over the years and over the 9 knives that I have purchased directly from S!K, both new and old spec., out of the 10 I currently own. Each example was what I considered to be very well ground, very well sharpened and very ergonomic in use. I considered them all to be a great value. The early versions were not finished the way that the new spec. knives are, so there were admittedly grind marks on the spine that were purposefully not finished by Guy to keep costs down that in no way impacted the knife in usage. This was purely cosmetic, and was part of the design. Everyone that I do know that has requested a refund was treated courteously and has reported that the refund was processed. I am not saying that you did not have an experience exactly as you describe, I am saying that this in no way represents the norm for the company based upon mine and others experiences. The delayed shipping date is another matter. This problem seems to be fairly universal, and it is what has prompted this thread.
 
theJman said:
BF has historically not been the place were you could say anything even remotely bad about Survive, lest you suffer the wrath of their fans (or fanboys, depending upon how cynical you are).
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Here I go with a second quote, but I didn't want to ignore this point.

There really has been a shift in the last few months. A year ago most complaints were about not liking the wait time on knives. Most everything that I saw seemed to have a very whiney tone and seemed to come from not reading through terms of sales when purchasing. It is SO easy to get caught up in this. For the regulars who love talking about GSO's I think it makes total sense to shut down that stuff otherwise every thread turns into griping and that isn't fun for anyone.

Back then there were not the genuine concerns about business practices. This thread was started in a respectful and intelligent manner and because we want to see positive change with the company we're discussing those concerns.
 
Silver Needle said:
Here I go with a second quote, but I didn't want to ignore this point.

There really has been a shift in the last few months. A year ago most complaints were about not liking the wait time on knives. Most everything that I saw seemed to have a very whiney tone and seemed to come from not reading through terms of sales when purchasing. It is SO easy to get caught up in this. For the regulars who love talking about GSO's I think it makes total sense to shut down that stuff otherwise every thread turns into griping and that isn't fun for anyone.

Back then there were not the genuine concerns about business practices. This thread was started in a respectful and intelligent manner and because we want to see positive change with the company we're discussing those concerns.
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I was one of the early adapters of Survive, being on the very first gso10 order and owning at one time a 4, 3.5, and a 6 (which I kick myself for selling). I also am one that has been very very critical of SKs business model. I have mostly stayed out of this mess since I sold my last Survive knife but I disagree with one part of this quote of yours... The fact that there were not genuine concerns on their business practices a year or two ago. I believe there were lots of concerns about how SK was doing business, growing too fast, taking full price deposits up front, and suspect CS. Most of us who brought up these concerns were largely shouted down by the *ahem* loyal followers of SK. I'm only on here to wish everyone the best of luck in this situation... including SK. They make an excellent product. But I feel if I had money tied up in preorders I would be demanding a refund, but if enough people do that I'm sure that would be the end of SK. I hope it works out for those involved but as someone sitting squarely on the sidelines, this doesn't look good.
 
willythekid said:
I was one of the early adapters of Survive, being on the very first gso10 order and owning at one time a 4, 3.5, and a 6 (which I kick myself for selling). I also am one that has been very very critical of SKs business model. I have mostly stayed out of this mess since I sold my last Survive knife but I disagree with one part of this quote of yours... The fact that there were not genuine concerns on their business practices a year or two ago. I believe there were lots of concerns about how SK was doing business, growing too fast, taking full price deposits up front, and suspect CS. Most of us who brought up these concerns were largely shouted down by the *ahem* loyal followers of SK. I'm only on here to wish everyone the best of luck in this situation... including SK. They make an excellent product. But I feel if I had money tied up in preorders I would be demanding a refund, but if enough people do that I'm sure that would be the end of SK. I hope it works out for those involved but as someone sitting squarely on the sidelines, this doesn't look good.
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That is a good point. I meant to say since the starter campaign there were more narrow complaints popping up from time to time. Maybe I didn't see the concerns posted that you were talking about or maybe I was too busy doggy paddling around my giant pool of koolaid. It'd be super easy to say "I told you so", so thanks for the well wishes. From a lot of angles things look grim, but I'm hoping SURVIVE! gets things straightened out like they have in the past.
 
Silver Needle said:
That is a good point. I meant to say since the starter campaign there were more narrow complaints popping up from time to time. Maybe I didn't see the concerns posted that you were talking about or maybe I was too busy doggy paddling around my giant pool of koolaid. It'd be super easy to say "I told you so", so thanks for the well wishes. From a lot of angles things look grim, but I'm hoping SURVIVE! gets things straightened out like they have in the past.
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What scares me the most is it seems SK needed the preorder money to buy materials and pay to keep the lights on. What happens when or if too many people ask for refunds? There has to be a point where the ship sinks I would think. I guess I wouldn't want to be one of the last people asking for my money back. Once again, best of luck to those who are financially involved. It sucks for everyone but just imagine if they had grown at a more reasonable speed like Fiddleback...
 
Certainly none of us know for certain how deep the whole that has been dug is. And none of us know the personal finances of the people involved with the company, but WTK is correct that these business model arguments have been around for years, well before the move to Idaho was announced. Sustainability is clearly the issue, and it is my hope that S!K is able to turn this around.
 
willythekid said:
Because it's an opinion.
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Yep ^

Also see: "for dramatic effect" and "hyperbole". Of course there's no way to evaluate if one knife in the same category is measurably 500% superior to another: on what criteria, or set of them? He was expressing a strong preference is all, clearly.

Also, those Knife Research blades produced by Lionsteel are supposed to be pretty special. Worth the price jump though? I'd wager that some of the price difference stems from being made in Europe, with pricey materials, and then having to be imported, whereas the GSOs are factory-direct.

If the GSOs were being sold through retailers primarily, the pricing would probably be in-line, and the Enki would definitely be pretty stiff competition for something like the GSO 5.1, I reckon. Particularly since I'd also wager that Lionsteel doesn't have the same supply bottlenecks...
 
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