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Sigh. All you optimists keep on being optimists, and all us pragmatists will keep on doing the same.
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Concerns About Survive! Business and Misleading Lead Time Estimates
- Thread starter ncrockclimb
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- Jun 10, 2013
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Well to you, This thread was "old" the day after it was started..
. So yea, we hear you. You want this BF sub. to be strictly praise only for SK! fans and want to censor anything that is non praise. But guess what, neither you nor SK! owns the BF subs. SK! dosen't even pay for the privallege. BF manufactures subs is,
It dosen't say "your place to interact with strictly fans and anything other then praise shall be deleted" So if there is anything that is getting old, it's this false understanding of what BF subs are.
Ironically, if anywhere you ought to take your argument, it would be SK!'s Facebook page where there is FAR more outright flaming SK! You would be making a perfectly legit argument there. But your argument on censorship and what BF subs are just has no merit.
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Personally, I am in if they make it, or if they don't. If they don't make it, amortizing my loss over all the GSO knives I have, and I think I am probably par, or ahead depending on the market. If they pull it off, I have three more great knives to thump on. None of us know the specifics of S! financials. I do worry for them, because I really want them to win and win big. But I am in for better or worse.
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As I mentioned before, with the unexpected issues that have been popping up we had to completely reassess our processes and everything is sorted out now. Between that, and me being back in the workshop things around here are going MUCH more smoothly. I totally understand the frustrations with the wait times but I would encourage everyone to just wait a couple more weeks before revisiting this conversation. By that time you should really start seeing some tangible results of those changes. In the meantime, please refrain from the snark and any personal attacks.
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Very good post! I would echo..
I think you are taping into a really important point on smart buying mentality here. Don't put up more money then you are willing to risk loosing. Esp. For the further out models like the gso10. Excellent point.
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Ellie, everyone really appreciates you and your interaction here. That's awesome news to hear you guys are making improvements! That said, the benefit of doubt ship for many has long past sailed and you are now charting into the "Show me don't tell me" waters from which you will be judged - it is what it is. But we all ARE rooting for ya. Even the most ardent critique wants SK to survive and flourish and that is some positive wind at your back.
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That is what I was getting at, we are very close to the "show you" part. I think you guys are going to be pretty happy by the start of November.
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Ellie, what makes this time different than all the other times that you have promised "change" and given us delivery dates?
In the beginning of 2015 you took more that 3x longer than promised to deliver GSO-5 knives you sold (not 5.1, but 5). It has been a continual string inaccurate lead times ever since (and it seems like you were missing delivery dates very consistently before then too). You have been working on the 4.7 for over a year, and I am curious about how the relatively small changes you mentioned in previous posts are going to result in the GSO-4.7 Cru Forge V, GSO-2.7, GSO-4.1 and GSO 7/7 getting finished "in a few months."
Many, many advocates for your brand bring up how much they "trust" you and Guy. To be honest, I felt the same way at one point. However, when you claimed that you would be delivering the latest round of 7/7 pre-sales in "a few months," I had to step back and reevaluate my evaluation of your integrity. Ellie, are you still claiming that you will deliver the 7/7 pre-sales in "a few months," and what exactly does "a few months" mean in your mind?
I spent a BIG part of my corporate career fighting to keep manufacturing jobs in america and now own a small business. I really like the idea of what you and Guy are trying to do and want to see you succeed. However, based on your past performance and your latest sales e-mails, I worry that you are not the company that I thought you were.
In the beginning of 2015 you took more that 3x longer than promised to deliver GSO-5 knives you sold (not 5.1, but 5). It has been a continual string inaccurate lead times ever since (and it seems like you were missing delivery dates very consistently before then too). You have been working on the 4.7 for over a year, and I am curious about how the relatively small changes you mentioned in previous posts are going to result in the GSO-4.7 Cru Forge V, GSO-2.7, GSO-4.1 and GSO 7/7 getting finished "in a few months."
Many, many advocates for your brand bring up how much they "trust" you and Guy. To be honest, I felt the same way at one point. However, when you claimed that you would be delivering the latest round of 7/7 pre-sales in "a few months," I had to step back and reevaluate my evaluation of your integrity. Ellie, are you still claiming that you will deliver the 7/7 pre-sales in "a few months," and what exactly does "a few months" mean in your mind?
I spent a BIG part of my corporate career fighting to keep manufacturing jobs in america and now own a small business. I really like the idea of what you and Guy are trying to do and want to see you succeed. However, based on your past performance and your latest sales e-mails, I worry that you are not the company that I thought you were.
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Ditto on this mlmcasual. I have been an ardent critic here lately while also professing that S!K knives are some of the finest blades for the money that you can buy anywhere in the world.
YES, Ellie, I'm rooting for you guys. I really am, but mlm called it. If you guys can actually make real changes and solve this problem, I see nothing but good things on the horizon for S!K. Get caught up and get some models that really are "In stock" (meaning completed knives on the shelf and ready to ship in days) and I have quite a bit of cash to spend with you.
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I will second that. I will also be very vocal in my appreciation and admiration for you guys turning things around. I am critical of what I see as a failing business model and questionable advertising, but I am not "anti-S!K." I sincerely want to see you succeed.
argyle1812
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All I know is that even though I dont really need one I just ordered a GSO 7/7 purely out of support. I wish S! nothing but the best and hope they succeed.
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Goose 7279
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I will probably get torched for this but you keep saying you want the best and hope for the best and love sk! But you keep blasting and attacking them even when they took the time to come to your thread to admit their short commings and ask for faith and support until november comes or for two or three weeks. Come on man your talking about this want and desire for them to succeed so lets give them there time and if it isnt better by then you can flame away. Ellie put a time frame on it and said we will see it so the ball is in their court ultimately calling them out asking for them to tell you why you should believe them or basically calling them liars doesnt help anything besides make knifemakers and or the reps not want to be a part of the forum look at the hinderer knives forum
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Totally genuine question here: does SK have any source of new customers other than the forums? As far as I can tell they have no marketing or presence anywhere else. If that's accurate, then I can't really see them ghosting Bladeforums anytime soon.
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Goose 7279
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They are on the social media fb and instagram and their website
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Yeah, I'd wager that their own site doesn't generate many new marketing impressions - folks probably arrive there having been introduced to the product elsewhere.
Given the mass consternation on their FB channel, I doubt that's a positive sales driver at this point either.
Maybe instagram does wonders for them.
Realistically, though, I'd wager it's their rep on BF that makes or breaks them.
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Given the mass consternation on their FB channel, I doubt that's a positive sales driver at this point either.
Maybe instagram does wonders for them.
Realistically, though, I'd wager it's their rep on BF that makes or breaks them.
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Goose 7279
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All im saying they stop posting or stop paying to have their own spot in the forums its happend before because of the drama. Im not saying this is going to happen its purely speculative but i know if someone kept saying why should i believe you you have lied but i dont want my money back just give me what i want now there is nothing you can do from a businesss standpoint i cant give you a product that isnt made and you dont want your money back sooo..... rock and hard place.
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I know this has puzzled and frustrated some supporters wondering why they heck won't those critics of SK just do their refund and leave already!??
But I think I know why they don't. It's the "in for a penny in for a pound" saying where you have customers with so much emotion, and money, and Time (some waiting 18 months), they can't just "let it go" and walk away. They want to see the ride to it's end even when the ride is starting to cause them a lot of heartache. It's kind of an irony that has bitten SK! in the butt, the whole "investment" aspect of the preorders. Investment is not a one way on/off street. You don't just date someone for two years then wake up one morning and say I am leaving. It's usually some drawn out drama because of all that has been invested into that relationship that went south. I am sorry to use such a weird analogy, but you get the picture. Please pardon my psychoanalysis.
Well, that's just my OP and take on it..
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^ this.
Also, pretending a problem didn't exist never caused a problem to get fixed.
Sure, some folks are more bent out of shape than others, but I think it's pretty normal to have a spectrum of reactions to a consumer scenario like this that's so far outside of the norm that there aren't any readily available comparisons to draw on.
Nobody knows how this ends, and some folks process uncertainty and risk differently than others - particularly when "want" gets involved.
Also different folks have different thresholds for flakiness.
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Also, pretending a problem didn't exist never caused a problem to get fixed.
Sure, some folks are more bent out of shape than others, but I think it's pretty normal to have a spectrum of reactions to a consumer scenario like this that's so far outside of the norm that there aren't any readily available comparisons to draw on.
Nobody knows how this ends, and some folks process uncertainty and risk differently than others - particularly when "want" gets involved.
Also different folks have different thresholds for flakiness.
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I believe you are right. I had been away from BF, but not knife forums in general, and only recently heard about them from a youtube channel (BlackScoutSurvival.)
My google searches ultimately landed me here.
I know I am certainly watching Survive! Knives right now to see if I will be a customer. The product looks absolutely great.
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