Corona thread. No politics please

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Casinostocks said:
Other than a complete change in attitudes and behaviors observing SD’ing and donning masks/gloves when in public and much more rigorous personal hygiene if and when things get back to some form of normalcy, I don’t see as to how we can avoid unnecessary exposure to this virus because it seems to be all over the place, it is novel meaning we don’t know much about it yet and it will most likely stick around.

Even here in CA where the state government acted more quickly than some others with the mitigation and suppression mandates, resulting in much lower known infections and verified deaths per capita, some people who I personally know of are already wailing that this is all BS, unnecessary, yada, yada and these are not your typical highly partisan , i.e, only Blue or Red team type of folks!
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That last paragraph is, and has always been, an unfortunate side effect of strict mitigation measures.

A lot of folks seem to have a hard time understanding 'cause and effect'. If the mitigation measures work well, that segment of the population simply use the lower numbers to support their "See, this was all blown out of proportion, and unnecessary" position.

The rational types who haven't taken the time to educate themselves, can be enlightened/reasoned with by pointing them to the statistics of countries and regions that either a) didn't implement NPIs (Non Pharmaceutical Intervention) like social distancing, widespread PPE usage, strict shutdown/quarantine measures, or implemented them late, after the disease was already widespread (eg. Italy and the UK).

Unfortunately, 'it's impossible to reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into'.

'Acceptable losses' are the dark side of administrative measures in managing epidemics. In order for more widespread acceptance of stricter mitigation measures, the administration takes into consideration, the balance between 'acceptable losses of life' vs the economic and social impacts on the general populace.

If China had revealed that they were seeing evidence of a localized epidemic of a SARS-like illness in October/November, with the help of the CDC and WHO, early measures might have been able contain this to a localized epidemic vs a globalized pandemic. Instead, they chose to suppress that information (including threatening the Chinese doctor Li Wenliang, who first tried to bring attention to it) to avoid 'looking bad' and disrupting the local economy.

Likewise, early implementation of mitigation measures in the US, could have decreased the number of cases and deaths. Unfortunately, if you implement these measures early and keep the case count and fatality numbers low, the lower the numbers, the more people will cry that the measures were wholly unnecessary, and way overdone.

Even now, with over 500,000 cases and over 20,000 deaths in just 2 months, there are still people arguing that it's not that bad, and the state shutdowns were an unnecessary overreaction.

What part of ' cases and deaths doubling every 2-3 days' before mitigation measures were implemented, is so difficult to understand?
 
moparsbob said:
According to this pre-print, COVID-19 doesn't really cause pneumonia or ARDS, it actually attacks our hemoglobin and removes the iron, preventing the hemoglobin from carrying oxygen.

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID...Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173/6
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Yes, I've read that hypothesis. They make a few assumptions to reach that theory.

While it may be a possibility, at this time thus far, the blood tests on Covid-19 patients haven't borne out to show the evidence that should exist to corroborate the theory.

Unfortunately, the disease is still new enough, that we really don't know enough about it yet. There's been some anecdotal observation of a neuropathic component from infection with this virus. Why? We don't know. We don't even know if those things are simply coincidental, or caused by the infection. This bug has hit different people in different ways, affecting different things in the body, and we're still unsure of why and how.
 
BTW, on the subject of vaccines:

You might've heard some folks arguing that hoping/waiting for a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 is a pipe dream, because we've never developed a viable vaccine for hCoVs (human Coronaviruses). This is true, but uneducated.

The reason why we've never developed an hCoV vaccine is simply money. Of the 6 previously known hCoVs, 4 are pretty common, in circulation throughout the year, and cause about 15% of cases of the common cold (rhinoviruses accounting for the most common causes of colds).

We've never bothered to develop a vaccine for any of these, because it's simply not worth the time/effort to develop a vaccine for something with a very low fatality rate, and that for most folks, is more of an inconvenience, than a health threat. Not to mention, even then, it would only provide some protection from just 15% of the pathogens that can cause a cold.

The other 2 hCoVs, SARS and MERS (Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome) were nowhere near as widespread, and burned out before a viable vaccine was developed (various companies actually did try to develop vaccines for SARS, but they dropped the development efforts when SARS burned out before the development was completed).

OTOH, we HAVE successfully developed Coronavirus vaccines (just not for human Coronaviruses).

https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/dp/68

And no, the BCV (Bovine Coronavirus Vaccine) does not provide ANY cross protection/immunity to SARS-CoV-2 (yes, they tested it).
 
Casinostocks said:
Mask up and wear gloves Dave. I know that you live in a small community which I hope has been pretty immune so far but you will still probably have to deal with venturing out into the larger and more populated cities?
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Yep, we're taking it serious, and the community/state as a whole has actually been pretty sensible. Only one case in my county, but I think we can attribute that to our Governor issuing the stay at home order early. We shut our store front down some weeks ago and are operating on a skeleton crew for essential service work which means more work for me, but whatever. Such is the nature of running a business, and a person had better realize that if they're going to take it on. So far we have been able to give everyone we sent home paid leave. I hope and pray that is able to continue. Good health to you Mat, and to all reading this.
 
Hard Knocks said:
Yep, we're taking it serious, and the community/state as a whole has actually been pretty sensible. Only one case in my county, but I think we can attribute that to our Governor issuing the stay at home order early. We shut our store front down some weeks ago and are operating on a skeleton crew for essential service work which means more work for me, but whatever. Such is the nature of running a business, and a person had better realize that if they're going to take it on. So far we have been able to give everyone we sent home paid leave. I hope and pray that is able to continue. Good health to you Mat, and to all reading this.
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Thank you Dave and the very same to both you and yours friend.

Without a healthy nation and a healthy state of our healthcare, we will not have a healthy economy. Some mega, super and ultra rich will continue playing with their Monopoly type gazillions. I've seen some of them on the telly and honestly sans their mega 0s on their bank statements, they sound like they came from the dollar-store universities!
 
gk4ever2 said:
Avoid exposure to the Coronavirus as much as possible. Now experts are thinking there might be lasting damage throughout the body from COVID-19: https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-infection-may-cause-lasting-220307511.html In addition to the lungs, apparently the effects of the virus can impact the heart, kidneys, liver and other areas of the body. Take care, and avoid unnecessary exposure to the virus.
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no way, let's all have a corona party! That way everyone gets it and we build herd immunity, yay!
just when you thought all the fun was over, people screened clear of it are becoming reinfected- and we don't know how or why! Hooray for our immune systems, and our magical thinking- both will keep us safe!
 
Lorien said:
no way, let's all have a corona party! That way everyone gets it and we build herd immunity, yay!
just when you thought all the fun was over, people screened clear of it are becoming reinfected- and we don't know how or why! Hooray for our immune systems, and our magical thinking- both will keep us safe!
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Some people heard "use plenty of alcohol" and thought that meant drink more ethanol instead of using isopropanol for sterilizing things. ;):D
 
Getting really, really annoyed by people on social media trying to find loopholes/excuses/etc. to go out to do non-essential things. Most people seem to get it but there seems to be a consistent 5% of the population who insists that this isn't a big deal.

It also really bugs me to see big city folk run to the country during this time to "get away from it all". If they are asymptomatic but end up feeling covid19 symptoms, they are 100% just going to run back to the big city for treatment. Way to transport the virus to smaller communities that don't have medical facilities or capacity to deal with your ignorant ass.

Sorry but just had to rant.
 
fatfrog said:
Getting really, really annoyed by people on social media trying to find loopholes/excuses/etc. to go out to do non-essential things. Most people seem to get it but there seems to be a consistent 5% of the population who insists that this isn't a big deal.

It also really bugs me to see big city folk run to the country during this time to "get away from it all". If they are asymptomatic but end up feeling covid19 symptoms, they are 100% just going to run back to the big city for treatment. Way to transport the virus to smaller communities that don't have medical facilities or capacity to deal with your ignorant ass.

Sorry but just had to rant.
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with you on that one bro
 
What's hilarious is a bunch of facebook groups are banning/censoring any covid19 discussion to the applause of these 5%er while the same 5%ers are making bold claims that the government is using this pandemic to impede on their freedoms. I honestly don't understand these people.
 
fatfrog said:
What's hilarious is a bunch of facebook groups are banning/censoring any covid19 discussion to the applause of these 5%er while the same 5%ers are making bold claims that the government is using this pandemic to impede on their freedoms. I honestly don't understand these people.
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They’re on Facebook, nuff said
 
So they're currently trying quite a few different medications for Covid-19. I'm sure everyone's heard of Hydroxychloroquine by now. Hopefully we'll hear some conclusive results from clinical trials soon.

Remdesivir is another that showed a lot of promise early and is being tested right now. We should potentially hear about results by the end of the month.

But here's an interesting one, that I really hope plays out for 2 simple reasons: 1) it's cheap. 2) We have a LOT of it all across the US. If this stuff actually works for Covid-19, we wouldn't have difficulties with acquiring enough of it, unlike Remdesivir and Hydroxychloroquine.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...tudied-as-possible-coronavirus-treatment/amp/
 
CataD said:
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Yup. Thus far, Dr. Rajtel in Broward Medical Health Center is administering it, but in conjunction with the Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin and Zinc Sulfate therapy.

Would be interesting to see more clinical trials of it in vivo.

The reason why I'm hoping that it pans out, is that the supply of Hydroxychloroquine is still spotty enough, that the folks who've been taking it regularly for years for RA and Lupus are having difficulty getting their prescriptions filled.

Some hospitals are only administering it to the severe Covid-19 cases, because they don't have enough to give it to every patient who tests positive.

The thing is, if the person's condition is already severe, there may already be substantial damage, making recovery much harder, as opposed to administering it early, to prevent the infection from becoming severe. There are also contraindications for just administering Hydroxychloroquine willy nilly, as there are side effects and adverse reactions like arrhythmias.

Likewise, the other drug that's shown a lot of promise early on, Remdesivir, is even harder to obtain (and still very expensive, until Gilead and the other company they licensed to produce it, substantially ramp up production).

In contrast, Ivermectin is well stocked across the US (most commonly for veterinary parasitic treatment in livestock and dogs), but it's cheap and abundant, with minimal adverse reactions. If it's shown to be effective in human trials, it's the option that we can easily supply, and it has a very long life in the body, so it doesn't require many doses (eg. treatment for Onchocerciasis is one dose annually, as it stays effective in the body against the microfilariae for 1-2 years).
 
This public mask wearing thing is weird...ventured into town for the first time in months risking certain death to retrieve this from the PO.

20200416_101757-jpg.1323096
 
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