Creeps in the Woods

[chopchop]

Very creepy. I don't think you could've handled it any better. No one was hurt, no real property damage, no impending judicial problems. Well done, imo. I think I might have decided to ditch the climbing knowing there was a dude up there that could mess with my lines, but I'm not a climber, so I don't know how often that happens or how big a deal it is to set up, get there, etc.

I never really thought about these kinds of things when I was younger, but now that I have a family, I'm more aware. I've met some folks that gave me a creeped out feeling in the city, but not on the trail. I hope it stays that way.

I'll have to talk with my wife about that bugout code word idea.

 

[BRL]

Glad this story ended well. You did a badass job keeping your act together. This guy cut a climber's rope; he was trying to kill one of you.

And put me in with everyone else saying gently that the word 'redneck' really doesn't belong in that list. And I'm a city boy!

 

[Confederate]

Just a few questions.

When you returned to the top of the precipice had the guy actually cut your ropes? When you saw him later, did he maintain eye contact?

Did you ask the cop to do a background check on him and his friend? What if he'd cut your girlfriend's lines just after you went over the edge? Was she in a safe place then?

I once took a date to see a play in Washington, D.C. We ate over by the waterfront and then parked in an underground garage figuring we would be there with everyone else. Unfortunately we were detained by a friend of my girlfriend and didn't get back until the streets were deserted. It would have been nice if the garage was deserted, too, but there were five or six "brothers" sitting on an empty car seemingly waiting for us. They looked at each other, then at us, and began a slow saunter over to where we were walking towards my car. I reached into the right-hand pocket of my overcoat and put my hand on the Pachmayr grips of my 3-inch Rossi .38 Spc, loaded with five hot frangible rounds of Glaser Safety Slugs +P. I distinctly kept my left hand away from my left-hand pocket. For some reason I was calm as ice, and they looked at me again, then each other, then changed direction and let us get to our car unmolested.

After leaving the parking garage, that's when my hands began shaking. I made it back to Virginia, let my lady friend out at her apartment and then went home. In this case, I had two reasons to fear. Not only the bad guys, but the fact that I was carrying without a permit in D.C. If I hadn't had the gun, my girlfriend could have been raped and I could have been beaten up. If I'd had the gun and had to use it, then it's likely that I would have been beaten up and raped in D.C.'s fine overnight facilities. Fortunately, it all worked out well. I had had surgery about 6-7 months before and I was so jittery and unable to sleep that I found some of my old Percocet pain killers and took a couple! Looking back, it was all worth it. Saving your date is worth everything, even your own death. Not being able to protect her is the absolute worst scenario and it's what I would have told the cops and grand jury had an incident led to shooting.

In today's society, you almost have to have a gun. D.C. makes carrying pistols a felony now, so I no longer go there. But I carry large knives in Maryland. Thank goodness Cold Steel makes knives with blades 5-6 inches long.

 

[Alan2442]

Sorry you had to deal with those losers.

I know you are from New England but down here in Texas "red necks" are good guys like you that don't put up with sh*t like that.

agreed

glad you and your GF came out of it ok. you handled the situation well.

 

[Angus McGunnigl]

You handled it very well.

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

Unfortunately, you can't just shoot someone for being a creep or cutting your ropes. Though, cutting the ropes is a direct form of sabotage with intent to do harm, IMO(not that I know a lick about the law... just my own). You did right, CanDo. Call the police and get to your vehicle. As for the "double tappers", I think that would be jumping the gun... pun intended. When adrenaline is pumping, it is easy to become excessive and turn what should be defense into offense. It takes strength to assess the situation for what it is (not based on your DVD collection's favorites) and do what is logical. At times like those, you tend to forget that your actions hold future repercussions. Many folks have messed up there lives by making bad descisions. Shooting someone for cutting your ropes and showing aggression is no different than shooting someone for slashing your tires and looking pissed-off in a parking lot. Excessive.

I know it's an intense subject, but we need to watch the language too, folks.

Rick

Not entirely accurate, Rick.
In the state of Kentucky -- and if this account is accurate -- had the two guys insisted any further, he'd have been justified in using lethal force. He was able to identify the one guy as that creepy dude, the same guy who purposefully cut his rope -- knowing they were climbing it, and as the guy who went and got a friend (that happened to be carrying a gigantic rock) that stalked the OP and his GF all the way back to their car. The OP and his GF retreated (which isn't required in this state, but it was plus), and they called the cops (bonus).

Doesn't mean there wouldn't have been a trial or some questions from the Law, though if you'd shot the guys.

Out here you don't have to retreat and you only have to be in reasonable fear for your life or someone else's. Two guys, one carrying a huge rock, and the other one obviously carrying a knife (unless he stared the rope in two) is plenty enough reason to be in fear for your life.

No sense in getting into all the if's and such, but there are some states where what they were doing constituted a legal threat to the OP and his GF. Any further aggressive action by them could have gotten them legally shot in many places.

I'm happy the OP and his GF came away none the worse for wear. Definitely some creepy/dangerous ass mofos out there.

 

[dextersp1]

I had a guy stalking me while I was on a hiking path a few years ago.

That guy sounds as if he was the beginning steps of becoming a killer, rapist, molester or whatever. He was practicing his technique and watching your reactions. I could see him escalating his actions and becoming more aggressive. I'm no expert.

 

[Shotgun]

Taking the knives and guns out of the equation for a moment... I have found myself in situations where i didnt have a good feeling about someone but let my ego or pride prevent me from making a smart assesment of the situation. By this i mean i stuck my ground to make sure they didnt think i was intimidated. This would especially be the case if my girlfriend/wife was present... "cant let this fool make me look bad..etc". But over the years ive learned that not walking away when you should can make you a lot worse off.

I think that was a proper way to handle the situation... get out of there. Youll never know if the story could have been the next bizarre national news tragedy had you stayed.

I particularly like the idea of having a code word with your partner to discretely say "im not comfortable...bear with me and lets leave.". Think most wives/gf's would respect that far more than tempting fate with movie machismo.

I agree 100% with this post and the only thing I can see that you did wrong was going forth with the climb. Trust your gut. If you get creeped out by someone to the degree that you were you should exit ASAP.

First, I'm not advocating shooting someone for "kicking sand in your face".
-snip-

If you shoot someone you ARE getting arrested no matter if you had the most justified of reasons. You're going to get processed and you're going to need a lawyer. Sure if you're justified you'll be set free however you'll still probably get a lawsuit from the victim or the victims family. That's just how it is.

 

[lonewolf_94]

Not really a creeper story, but I almost killed my buddy on a camping trip in the U.P. We were camping in the middle of the woods. It was about midnight, and I got up to get some more fire wood. My buddy had went into the woods a few minutes before to take a leak, and I didn't really think about his absence. when I got to the pile of brush to collect more wood, my buddy jumps out of a hollow tree. I jumped back and almost cut him in half with my CS gurkha kukri. He stepped back and yelled "HEY ITS ME!!!"
I am pretty sure that I made him wet his pants. Today we can laugh about it, But if he was any closer I would most likely have killed him.

 

[jdigi101]

Not really a creeper story, but I almost killed my buddy on a camping trip in the U.P. We were camping in the middle of the woods. It was about midnight, and I got up to get some more fire wood. My buddy had went into the woods a few minutes before to take a leak, and I didn't really think about his absence. when I got to the pile of brush to collect more wood, my buddy jumps out of a hollow tree. I jumped back and almost cut him in half with my CS gurkha kukri. He stepped back and yelled "HEY ITS ME!!!"
I am pretty sure that I made him wet his pants. Today we can laugh about it, But if he was any closer I would most likely have killed him.

I love camping and drinking too.

 

[sergemaster]

Interesting story.. A little time ago, I was meeting with an insurance adjustment agent here at my pad when he noticed my knife collection and as it turned out, was himself a fellow "knife nut" as well as an outdoorsman who originally called Michigan home before moving to NJ.

Well as he perused through my fixed blades and folders, I showed him some my favorites specifically the Case XX USMC Combat Utility, and shared that this was my solo hiking/backing blade when he smiled and told me a story of his own..

He said a few years back when he was still living in Michigan he went sole hiking, and he stumbled across a huge stash of gay porn piled up and scattered long what could be described as a makeshift bush shelter.. Suddenly he found himself being chased by two to three crazed looking dudes all the way back to his truck and a little ways more even on foot as he zoomed away..

What they were up too he didn't know, but it was obvious that it wasn't about swapping fishing lures.. As he concluded the story still admiring my collection, he picked up my SOG Recon and said, "I wish I had this with me then instead of that tiny slippie, but then again I got lucky" and he certainly did. That's because since the 1970's and Geraldo Rivera with his "Creedmoor Institution" exclusive, the gates of all state run nut houses have been flung open, and society as well as the woods have become haven to those who would be better off detained in rubber rooms or heavily sedated..

From what I've heard, there's also been an explosion of nutty encounters along the AT, so be resourceful if planning to partake on a once great trail friendly hike.

Cheers,
Serge

 

[hollowdweller]

Can Do,

So what exactly do you think this guys intention was?

Was he going to cut your ropes while you were going down the cliff?

 

[slo]

first off I'd start by saying it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. bottom line I'm going to survive.. may have to deal with some stuff but the only reason to actually shoot someone is to preserve your life, well worth getting processed at county.

secondly I've found that a gun doesn't make you want to get MORE violent, it actually lets you keep your cool. Much the same way people or animals feel clostrophobic. They say you really have to fear an animal when it's cornered, it'll do anything. A gun allows you to not feel cornered because you're either on equal playing ground or actually have an advantage. With the security you feel you have to defend yourself you tend to react more cool and calmly to those situations because you're not worrying about all the bad thing that they could do to you. Just my take from my experiences. Regardless never showing weakness or fear is imperative, much like running can trigger an animal to attack, that fear intices aggression. Always know you're willing to go as far as the other guy, sounds like when the guy got close enough, he realized you were. I think that's what diffused the situation. Just like animals, criminal deralicts always go for the easiest prey. Don't be easy prey.


As for personal experiences, I've had a couple potentialy bad situations but I generally tend to be proactive and not reactive. I also do most of my talking in body language, I have no problem being short with someone. I've never told someone to leave me alone, ever. Never had to. I gotta say I'd definitely be put off or maybe a little peaved if someone talked to me like that. Rather, I let them keep their pride and make the decision/assesment that I'm not interested and move on. If they ARE crazy as possibly feared, it wouldn't provoke them to retaliation but would also let them know stuff isn't going down that easy with me, they better pack a lunch.

As far as the AT wackos, I've been hearing that too. There's also been SEVERAL bodies found in areas of forest NEAR the AT. Kinda like how they say no bears have killed anyone in yellowstone since '85.. like it never happens, when in reality bears in the generall area have killed people as recently as this year. Especially in NY and PA I've seen a lot of bodies discovered in those woods, quite a few decapated. My hunting buddy had told me about a freaky encounter he had in PA near the AT (which is what got me looking into it to begin with) whlie out in the bush at 3 a.m. and there were a group of people near his tree stand and he could see a fire and sounded like the people were chanting. Sounds crazy I know (any more crazy than this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElJFYwRtrH4) So needless to say his scrawny old ass high-tailed it out of there and called the deputies who came out and sure enough they found a warm bed of coals and chickens feathers and blood everywhere. Things that make you go "hmmmm"

 

[devilpig]

If you shoot someone you ARE getting arrested no matter if you had the most justified of reasons. You're going to get processed and you're going to need a lawyer. Sure if you're justified you'll be set free however you'll still probably get a lawsuit from the victim or the victims family. That's just how it is.

So I guess the call I went to last year where a guy shot a home intruder and didn't go to jail was a dream.

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

You handled the situation well except for making yourself vulnerable by repelling down the cliff.It's better to listen to that voice inside and be wrong than to ignore it and be wrong.

This. Absolutely this. If you start getting "off" signals from someone, you get them for a reason. This can happen anywhere, not just the woods. You can get them in the supermarket, a parking lot, the doctor's office, a gas station, a sporting event. Anywhere. It isn't generally paranoia, your subconscious is speaking to you, sending you warnings which should be heeded.

Politeness is meant for polite society. Folks like that fellow are not polite society, regardless of how they behave. Follow your gut. If it means bailing on a particular activity, so what? You can always do it another day.

Andy

 

[fugawee]

well,guess I'll shoot my two cents in....

Your here
telling us the story
sounds like your the winner.
no replay needs to be watched.

 

[silverbullets]

first off I think the situation was handled well, it is one thing to have only yourself to worry about but to be with a loved one who you have to look after is a totally different story. It brings me to a question, of course I don't rock climb so I can see that open carry can get in the way, that aside when I am in the woods I usually have a pistol loaded and visible on my hip (legal in Cali in the forest). I feel, especially when I am with my kids it acts like a deterrent, I am always friendly, but feel that seeing it there will deter folks. Obviously in this situation climbing, that wouldn't work but what do folks thing, conceal or open?

 

[Myal]

This. Absolutely this. If you start getting "off" signals from someone, you get them for a reason. This can happen anywhere, not just the woods. You can get them in the supermarket, a parking lot, the doctor's office, a gas station, a sporting event. Anywhere. It isn't generally paranoia, your subconscious is speaking to you, sending you warnings which should be heeded.

Politeness is meant for polite society. Folks like that fellow are not polite society, regardless of how they behave. Follow your gut. If it means bailing on a particular activity, so what? You can always do it another day.

Andy

My theory is that we share the same basic instinct for sensing danger as say dogs do .. but where a dog just feels it and acts accordingly ... ever seen your dog just hate , or love , someone they just met ? thats the instinct Im talking about .
Humans rationalize it away tho .. " he cant be that bad , I just laid eyes on him and he hasnt *done* anything bad yet ... he probably is ok "


maybe it is subconscious , maybe its instinct , guardian spirit , intuition .. its worth listening to and acting on . Its there for a reason ..

I was camped with my family by a creek , in an empty public camping spot not far out of Perth WA ( I say not far , but thats from a guy who just drove a week across the nulabor , mighta been far if youre local to Perth ) It was by a creek , green grass , beautiful spot.
We were having a days rest , not moving , our gear was spread out , we were set up , checking what we had to repair / replace etc , no thoughts of breaking camp in a hurry
The "We" was my wife , my mum and myself , Mums kinda crippled up . that day tho she wasnt in her wheelchair .
Several cars traveling together pulled in , circled the whole area and pulled up real close to us , annoying , bad feeling starting in my gut when they came in .
It wa about 6 guys , 3 or 4 girls , one older guy who was part of the group but different .. they were all late teen early 20s , thugs , the girls cheap . the older guy was ... hard , and missed nothing . He kinda smelt like excon
anyway his crew took a couple cartons of beer and wandered down the creek , he waited with the cars .
I asked my girls if they wanted to just leave , mum , in typically motherly fashion says well I just cooked some steak , eat it and we will go for a drive then "
sounded ok to me , I figured we had time .. we sat down to eat , steak was like rubber , we all get our knives out , I slipped out my opinel and flicked it open , it made its click sound and them bam ... you know that " youre being watched " feeling ? that like 20x stronger .. I look around and there is the older guy staring at me ..
He was *doing* anything it was just feelings I had ..

I ate my steak , wiped my blade clean and flicked it shut and put it in its belt pouch , VERY aware he was watching me as soon as I flicked it shut .. it was a feeling like a kid being busted playing with a toy he wasnt sposed to ..
We cleaned up , and were making ready to go for a drive ... when his crew came back , the girls stood in our exit , and were making out and undressing each other.. nothing I hadnt seen in a kalgoorlie pub before , but this was way outa place , and i just knew it was set up , coming up would be some rowdy accusations of me perving on their girls , a lot of verbal agro / humilitaion , then a good old beating of a couple travelers by some drunk thugs ...
I ignored the girls , unclipped my retaining strap on my pouch , and bam .. that old guy was watching AGAIN ... ok , he is on my take to hell with me list , after whoever was going to come up and start the agro

I didnt expect to survive this , we had left it too late to get out , it was all bad now ... just waiting for one of them to come over .. I wanted at least to leave the blood marks obviously in my camp so whoever found it would know we wasnt the agressors even if we DID break the law and defend ourselfs , and break it again by using weapons in self defense .
But the older guy said something to his crew , walked around to tell them all, and they grumbled some but got in their cars , and left .

now all that happened as presentable fact was , they came , got drunk yahooed a bit , got their girls to put on a show , the guys made over loud rude comments about us campers watching , and then not watching , got in their cars and left

there was a whole lot more goin on tho .. I have been barman / bouncer for a couple years , and hanging around with scum for a few more , I shoulda moved on when I felt that first bad feeling
When it was too late ,it was weird , I was dead calm , just waiting ... seriously focused

that older guy with them tho ... he missed nothing , he saw that the girls and I were kinda familiar with our knives and all in easy reach , I think he would have let them run amok onus if he hadnt seen that we were armed ( ha , kinda ) and that at least I was full ready to use it , and their game wasnt really working as it wa supposed to do .

He reined them in and they left ... I was fully intending to just pack up and go as well but adrenaline overload kicked in so we hung around for a few more hours and left to find somewhere else just before suundown , I think we paid for a spot in a van park . Screw bush camps near cities
.

 

[mr.trooper]

WOW, of all the dirty things to do.

I've only bumped into a 'wierdy' once in the woods, and it wasn't nearly so bad - just a crazy dirty old hobo.

 

[Bladite]

i'd like to know where in New England the OP encountered those goons.

while a pair of climbers is the minimum, most times we've been with at least 3 people total, or more, and at least one person is on top to watch the lines (and roped in too, to prevent accidents)... having someone cut the lines would be a lot harder.

generally speaking, where i am, almost anyone i know that has a gun, carries it while hiking. we have bears now. play it safer... knives of course, any size, are legal. so of course, those. axes. ready for zombie bears

now, just last week, in the Southern part of my state, in a well travelled park, i was hiking with a lady friend. i had a Helle strapped on, and some other things in a pack (for the weight, i swear). had a guy just randomly stop in front of us on a bike, and looked like he was trying to sell something, turns out he had a pocket full of religious packets. before he could offer us salvation or whatever he was selling, he noticed the Helle on my hip, and my hand on my belt near it. he said "gotta go" and booked out.

when camping/hiking, i usually make sure at least one other party in my group has a spare key to the car. it's nice if they have a phone too. a GPS is good thing in case you have to tell someone where you are now, 911-GPS doesn't always work well in the woods.

situational awareness. know where you are, know how to get out, know who to call, have a plan, have a code-word (someone else mentioned that, good stuff); know your group too.

it's a shame we need this, but i learned from a cop i used to hike with, that being 15 miles into the wood, facing someone "hunting" and not being armed is really stupid. as he said "they will never find your dead carved up body"