Crosscut Saw Thread

rjdankert said:
Don't know if this has been addressed before and I'm sure there are other ways to do this. FWIW

Sometimes you run across a saw bolt that no longer wants to hold in the handle and when you try to unscrew the nut the bolt/nut just spins and does not unscrew.
Bob
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That is a good technique. I'll also put an old piece of inner tube under the nut to help it grab a little better. To prevent that from happening again, put an external tooth lock washer on the nut when re-installing. It will bite into the brass and wood, and let you fully tighten the screw.
 
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now, like all other things i will be posting in the coming days, this was from the estate of my great great aunt, who was a miser so she never sold anything. she had the tools from her husband who died in 1986 after barely ever using his tools. he owned a mine and mine general store so he was frequently paid collateral for loans, there was a bunch of drama around the estate so i had to pick through the remains.

these tools have been locked in a basement for at least 31 years and most are barely used.

this saw, i originally thought to be a toolbox saw, breaks down for storage, nope. it's from a set called the "nest of saws" where there were 7 blades and one handle (the same handle as the disston flooring saws) and this specific blade is the rip saw, there was a crosscut, fine tooth plumber's saw and 4 sizes of compass/keyhole saw.

as for the handle stamp, it says ORD. DEPT. clearly, now the last 3 are a bit tricky, they either say HSA, BSA or NRA. either is interesting to me.
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it may not appear so but this plate is massive for it's length. i'v narrowed it down to either a disston no.7 or 8 but the teeth, they're worn very far down, we're talkin like, half an inch down. if anyone can tell e the difference between a no.7 and 8 please do, BTW i have all the other parts, i'm just cleaning them.
 
Tired of fussing with plastic wedges that are hard to start because they're designed for the wider kerf of a chainsaw? It's fast and easy to re-profile them for crosscut saw use! Just clamp them in your vise and get after them with a farriers rasp. Takes about 60 seconds to re-profile both sides.

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I have a couple of decent crosscut saws and some recently inherited saw tools. Some of the tools are for much larger blades than man-powered crosscut saws though.

I get the premise of straightening but lack a "bench anvil". Would a long slab of steel flat stock on my workbench serve the purpose? 2'-3' feet of flat steel at what, 1/8" or would it have to be thicker? Is it necessary to have the rest of the blade absolutely flat and level to the steel while truing a section?(meaning an 1/8" drop or so on either side if the blade was centered on the steel)
For instance, if I need to fix the end of the blade and I have 2-3" of saw not resting on the anvil but dropping the height to the steel to the bench, is that drop going to create more problems than solve when I start making strikes due to torque or anything? I would only work a section that is centered on the "anvil" and not close to the edge of it - if that makes sense.

Here is what I am thinking but larger:

Truing.Surface by Agent Hierarchy

It would also be the surface to straighten, set, etc.

Building a frame/vise to hold it is something I think I can manage but am wondering what the Saw Doctors here use as their solid surfaces for straightening the blades and teeth of older saws.
 
Agent_H said:
I get the premise of straightening but lack a "bench anvil". Would a long slab of steel flat stock on my workbench serve the purpose? 2'-3' feet of flat steel at what, 1/8" or would it have to be thicker? Is it necessary to have the rest of the blade absolutely flat and level to the steel while truing a section?(meaning an 1/8" drop or so on either side if the blade was centered on the steel)
For instance, if I need to fix the end of the blade and I have 2-3" of saw not resting on the anvil but dropping the height to the steel to the bench, is that drop going to create more problems than solve when I start making strikes due to torque or anything? I would only work a section that is centered on the "anvil" and not close to the edge of it - if that makes sense.
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That would work fine. I use my milled cast iron table saw top as my saw anvil. It does just fine. There are times when I want something softer under the saw and I will slip a board under it to work out a particularly troublesome bump.

Bottom line - if it works and helps you get your saw straight then it's the right tool.

Hang your saw from the rafters in the garage and use a pair of tri-squares to find the high spots. Mark 'em with a Sharpie and then take them to your saw anvil - whatever it may be. When the tri-squares indicate it's flat you're done, whether you had special fancy tools or not.

Tensioning a saw is an art form. I'm not near that level yet.
 
Agent_H said:
I have a couple of decent crosscut saws and some recently inherited saw tools. Some of the tools are for much larger blades than man-powered crosscut saws though.

I get the premise of straightening but lack a "bench anvil". Would a long slab of steel flat stock on my workbench serve the purpose? 2'-3' feet of flat steel at what, 1/8" or would it have to be thicker? Is it necessary to have the rest of the blade absolutely flat and level to the steel while truing a section?(meaning an 1/8" drop or so on either side if the blade was centered on the steel)
For instance, if I need to fix the end of the blade and I have 2-3" of saw not resting on the anvil but dropping the height to the steel to the bench, is that drop going to create more problems than solve when I start making strikes due to torque or anything? I would only work a section that is centered on the "anvil" and not close to the edge of it - if that makes sense.

Here is what I am thinking but larger:

Truing.Surface by Agent Hierarchy

It would also be the surface to straighten, set, etc.

Building a frame/vise to hold it is something I think I can manage but am wondering what the Saw Doctors here use as their solid surfaces for straightening the blades and teeth of older saws.
Click to expand...

The flat stock sheet in the picture would be a blessing. That should work more than adequately.

I use an incredibly small, 12" square stock I managed and keep the saw elevated so the sag off the flat stock doesnt, doesnt seem to, effect and straightening of the blade I have attempted.

I have a 6' long bench that helps that process.

I hope you will share soon the saws you will be doctoring :thumbsup:
 
I have used my 165# Trenton and worked longways, with acceptable results. Its about a 20" surface. I put a couple of those adjustable height rolling stands for tablesaws off each end for extra support.

Dolly Chapman showed us using a piece of 1/2" plywood, about 2x2 feet or so, on a concrete slab as a quick and easy method, and it worked great.
After marking the spots with a marker as S Square_peg descibed, work them on the plywood anvil. It doesn't mark up the saw and is very effective.
I've done it several times since she showed me that at the fs trails barn working on saws there and like it a lot.
I'd try that first if you don't have something else that works yet.
 
muleman77 said:
I have used my 165# Trenton and worked longways, with acceptable results. Its about a 20" surface. I put a couple of those adjustable height rolling stands for tablesaws off each end for extra support.

Dolly Chapman showed us using a piece of 1/2" plywood, about 2x2 feet or so, on a concrete slab as a quick and easy method, and it worked great.
After marking the spots with a marker as S Square_peg descibed, work them on the plywood anvil. It doesn't mark up the saw and is very effective.
I've done it several times since she showed me that at the fs trails barn working on saws there and like it a lot.
I'd try that first if you don't have something else that works yet.
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Thanks for that muleman, I will be trying that out when the time comes. Thank you Dolly Chapman
 
Square_peg, I've never tensioned a saw before. I probably wouldn't have so many questions if I had expressed any interest when I lived at home. Our saw-filer passed in the late 80's.

Miller '72, The saws I have aren't anything too special and I've posted them here as I've come into them. I just scrubbed and scraped that felling saw for hours, brought it in and thought to myself, "This is just the beginning" lol. I managed to hang them out of the way until I get my act together (this is part of that).

Hanging.Around by Agent Hierarchy


Hanging.Around by Agent Hierarchy

I have a decently-sized and sturdy dining room table that is set on a rolling frame I built to move about my work area that, if set up, could house a removable vise and serve as an anvil surface with a piece of steel like was mentioned here.

This is anecdotal but - In my searches for "old what not" I came across a used building supply place a couple of towns away that had maybe 20-30 crosscut saws all heaped together. The week after I saw them I went back to pick a couple out and they were all gone. There is someone in the area (PDX metro/Hillsboro/Tigard-Tualatin/etc.) that cleans, sets up, and sells crosscuts in the same area via several mediums - if that is one of you guys here, I would like to chat ;) (all good stuff of course).

Some of the above mentioned tools I received, I had to send some pictures to Square_peg to identify... The only thing going for me is I am patient and a quick study lol.

All and any input is greatly appreciated.

WWDD - What Would Dolly Do? :thumbsup:
 
Agent_H said:
Square_peg, I've never tensioned a saw before. I probably wouldn't have so many questions if I had expressed any interest when I lived at home. Our saw-filer passed in the late 80's.
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Here's a response I got from Dolly Chapman.

" I have seen top quality racing saws tensioned with a wheel that rolls down the middle under immense pressure, thus expanding the middle slightly to give the saw 'life.' This was a precise operation. I wouldn't bother trying to tension an antique saw with hammer blows."

John Starling elaborated a bit more.

" Tensioning a flat piece of saw steel will make it more stiff, and it will control how the edges will turn or lay over if slightly bent. Because saw steel has inclastic properties when untensioned, the edges will bend in the shape of a saddle. Depending on which how much tension is placed in saw plate determines whether the edges turn right or left if held vertical. When checking, lay flat, pick up one end and slightly press down. place a straight edge crosswise to see if the plate is humped up (low tension) or hollowed down (high tension). With properly tensioned saw plate, the edges will remain even across the saw plate.

When stressing inclastic material, it will go back to it's original position unheeded. Because saw steel is also anticlastic, when bent one direction it will also bend in an opposite direction at a 90 degree direction without outside forces because of the internal stresses placed on it. By adding tension to the plate we can control the anticlastic movement.

Industrial stretcher rolls are best when adding tension precisely. Hammering tension takes, sometimes years of practice. If a saw gets pinched or damaged by hitting it with an axe or a wedge the edges will be damaged and will distort the proper tension in body of saw plate. This is easier to fix with hammering, than a stretcher roll. Most antique saws had tension placed in them before the final finished grind."

Another comment I received,

"Definitely need stretcher rolls, the point is to stretch the body longer than the edges. It it like with round saws but different. Easy to demonstrate, harder to explained. In the old days it was a black art!"

I've read in old logging books about tensioning being done at camp by the camp filer (highest paid man in a lumber camp). Stiffening a saw would have been very useful if one was skilled at it. I guess that skill might be gone forever.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
Yes it will, but with everthing else: It's all about the skills of the person doing it! It is cumbersome either way though! Hammering is slighty more skill oriented though and a bit slower. It's mostly down to stretching the metal.

You could even try to heat it in winter and then use CO2 in a can: Steel has memory, and dents/bend would pop out that way. Never do that to the hardened part though!

And last but least: It depends on the thicknes of the saw, but there is a method that can prevent warping al together: Dimpling. It's actually the same as stretching the metal, only more severe by creating surface tension. You see that a lot in motorsports applications, old fighter airplanes, and hotrods. Personally wouldn't want to that to a old saw, but it will work like a charm!
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My thoughts on the heat thing......

In a saw, the whole body is hardened and tempered, thus the ability to flex and bend without memory. If that temper is brought down to far, it will easily kink. Any significant heat application will likely add a warp somewhere else in the saw body.

To add complication many crosscuts seem to be somewhat air hardening, so heating to a critical temp can result in brittleness, and certainly a crack in flexing if not tempered back correctly.

I agree, not to try it as a way to straighten or retension:)
 
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