Crucible Industries Update

VTer said:
Perhaps to people more knowledgeable about industry jargon the phrase "the same Chemistry" conveys more than it does to me, but it wasn't obvious to me whether it encompassed all of the physical properties of the steel or merely its composition.
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Hahaha..... Great now we are going to have tons of threads open discussing new composition vs old, just like in the INFI days

Maybe we should open a new sub forum. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😮
 
VTer said:
Perhaps to people more knowledgeable about industry jargon the phrase "the same Chemistry" conveys more than it does to me, but it wasn't obvious to me whether it encompassed all of the physical properties of the steel or merely its composition.
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If the (powdered metal) steel that nsm nsm is referring to above has the "same chemistry", what he is telling you is that it will have the same properties if manufactured, processed and heat treated to the same standards.
 
That's a large if. Replicating what Crucible does exactly.

Taking the recipe and having someone else make the cake doesn't necessarily guarantee the same cake. But I understand the point of reassuring people.
 
katguy said:
Is CPM MagnaCut tougher than non-CPM MagnaCut? Or is it better in other ways?
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There is only CPM MagnaCut currently. (It's a powdered metal steel, formulated by Larrin for manufacture as such. Anyone else that may produce the steel down the road, if germane, will also be producing it as a powdered metal steel.)
 
Larrin said:
Matt was responding to the assumption that taxes made up the bulk of their problems. That was the assumption that needs further evidence.

Trademarks are not patents. A trademark is a name and does not protect a composition. Most of Crucible’s patents have expired apart from S110V which expires in April I believe.
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Larrin,

Who else in the U.S. can produce Powder metallurgy steels...?

Who would you trust to make your Magnacut if Crucible did shut down its knife steel division...? I know a lot if it falls onto the Knife makers and heat treating...

Thanks
 
KenCaz said:
Larrin,

Who else in the U.S. can produce Powder metallurgy steels...?

Who would you trust to make your Magnacut if Crucible did shut down its knife steel division...? I know a lot if it falls onto the Knife makers and heat treating...

Thanks
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In the first post Bob listed steel companies they are ordering from to supplement or replace Crucible. Two of them can do powder metallurgy steels.
 
shinyedges said:
That's a large if. Replicating what Crucible does exactly.

Taking the recipe and having someone else make the cake doesn't necessarily guarantee the same cake. But I understand the point of reassuring people.
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That’s what I’m questioning. It sounds nice to say “the same Chemistry,” but what people care about is not the chemistry, but the performance. The way this was worded stood out to me instantly as the kind of thing companies say when they can’t make the stronger claim that people actually care about.
 
VTer said:
That’s what I’m questioning. It sounds nice to say “the same Chemistry,” but what people care about is not the chemistry, but the performance. The way this was worded stood out to me instantly as the kind of thing companies say when they can’t make the stronger claim that people actually care about.
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How well another company makes Crucibles steels is yet to be seen. Does Crucible make every aspect of their process public? Perhaps it can be bought or given to another company which would help facilitate the new company manufacturing steels that perform as everyone is used to.

Carpenter and bohler have different processes from one another same a crucible has a different process. Though I may stand corrected. Will another company be able to iron out the issues and make a very similar product after trial and error? Probably.

Just saying whatever they first produce that has the same Chemistry is the same as what Crucible made, may not be accurate.

There's enough interest I think for someone to iron it all out and make them successfully
 
VTer said:
That’s what I’m questioning. It sounds nice to say “the same Chemistry,” but what people care about is not the chemistry, but the performance. The way this was worded stood out to me instantly as the kind of thing companies say when they can’t make the stronger claim that people actually care about.
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Well, if you're going down that road, then you'd have been driven insane between 204P, M390 and 20CV.

My mother used to follow my grandmother's recipes for Mediterranean dishes. She followed them to the "T". But she wasn't using cast iron, and she had a different stove. So, are you going to require that whoever can make powdered metal equivalents of the current steels simply buys up all of the Crucible gear, and...or, relocate to their facility?

I think you guys are swatting at flies that haven't yet hovered over the dish. Or are speaking of such incremental distinctions as to be meaningless absent evidence. What would lead you to think the "new" version would be inferior, rather than the opposite?

A lot of hand wringing while still being told, (the good news), that nsm nsm is doing everything they can to keep the supply chain open and active.
 
VTer said:
That’s what I’m questioning. It sounds nice to say “the same Chemistry,” but what people care about is not the chemistry, but the performance. The way this was worded stood out to me instantly as the kind of thing companies say when they can’t make the stronger claim that people actually care about.
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VTer said:
Perhaps to people more knowledgeable about industry jargon the phrase "the same Chemistry" conveys more than it does to me, but it wasn't obvious to me whether it encompassed all of the physical properties of the steel or merely its composition.
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Nah, we are in good hands.
 
I have tested and written about identical composition steels made by different powder metallurgy steel companies:
knifesteelnerds.com

M390 vs 20CV vs 204P - 3rd Generation Powder Metallurgy Technology? - Knife Steel Nerds

Bohler-Uddeholm claims that their "3rd Generation" powder metallurgy technology makes their steels superior to other brands. Is it true?
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
knifesteelnerds.com

USA vs Europe - Powder Metallurgy Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds

New tests of Z-Wear powder metallurgy steel manufactured in USA and Europe. I found out if there is really a difference.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com
 
DeadboxHero said:
Nah, we are in good hands.
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100% agreed. I have zero concerns regarding the quality of the alloys made by any of the candidates that Niagara will be procuring from. All of them have established that these processes are safely in their wheelhouse. My greatest concern is for the folks at Crucible and the uncertainty that they’re faced with. Wishing the best for all of them.
 
I'm sure in 2009 nobody would have been able to predict all of the marvelous things Crucible Industries was going to do in the future from that point.

Unfortunately, right now we don't have the luxury of hindsight to see what the future has for Crucible Industries.

Is it the end of the legacy or will they rise from the ashes again?

Time will tell.

I feel it's impossible to articulate the gratitude for all those US steel workers who put the sweat on those brows to bring us all of these innovative and extraordinary products into physical reality that we often take for granted.

All those memories

Sijv269.png
 
In use and while sharpening I can't tell a difference between CPM Cruwear and Carpenter's PD#1. I've tried all three versions of M390 listed in Larrin's article and feel like I'd be more concerned at this point of differences in heat treats than product chemistry and production particulars. If you really want to split hairs you can look at the paperwork provided with each different batch of steel and note there are small differences in the same steel from the same company that meet the specs for that steel and do perform the same to my eyes and hands.
 
I used M390, K390 and S390 - and all 3 of Bohler steels are superb.

Friend of mine has a knife in Vanadis 4e and he's beyond happy with it.

Another friend has a knife in S600 and is also amazed by it.

Bohler knows their stuff and makes some awesome steels.

I didn't have the chance to use Carpenter steels yet, but I have no doubts that they are of amazing quality too.
 
LostCause said:
I used M390, K390 and S390 - and all 3 of Bohler steels are superb.

Friend of mine has a knife in Vanadis 4e and he's beyond happy with it.

Another friend has a knife in S600 and is also amazed by it.

Bohler knows their stuff and makes some awesome steels.

I didn't have the chance to use Carpenter steels yet, but I have no doubts that they are of amazing quality too.
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Well a good knife is a good knife.

Too often we attribute steel names and steel manufacturers without giving credit to knife design, cutting geometry and the sharpening being what we are actually experiencing.

I agree, they all make good products.
 
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