Crucible Industries Update

And what navman navman just posted is what I recall from my own prior conversation with nsm nsm ...that no CPM steels were being (legitimately) shipped to Asia (at the time of that conversation).

Perhaps I am wrong in saying CPM steels instead of only MagnaCut. I'll have to check.
 
I posted the Niagara quote. :)
 
I'll be back...I'm gonna see if I can reach Bob and recant my error, if I am in error.

ETA: Left a message. I'll clean up any misconception once I have an opportunity to hear from nsm nsm
 
I'm going to correct myself in an abundance of caution, (though Bob has not yet confirmed), and state that I believe I misremembered and thought that no CPM steels were being shipped to Asia...when I should have said that Bob told me that MagnaCut had not been authorized for sale in Asia.

I apologize for any confusion.
 
nautiquess said:
Does anyone know does Crucible actually have a copyright on the term magnacut? Also not to bring politics into this but with all the talk of tariffs in upcoming trade negotiations, and with china being the leading competitor to US steel companies, Crucible looks like a much more viable prospect for purchase as the market potentially turns. Knife steel is a small component of their business. Other companies such as EQS that does powdered metal ingots for many high tech applications, could definitely duplicate the product but could they actually market it under the Magnacut name?
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Crucible Industries LLC currently holds a global trademark portfolio of 161 registration, as reflected by TMview:


This includes the US registration for MAGNACUT; I'm a bit surprised no attempt has been made to obtain trademark rights in other relevant territories though, perhaps for costs reasons.

No one else has registered the mark elsewhere, the US entry is the only one for the combination of the mark and the relevant class (6):

 
TC said:
Crucible Industries LLC currently holds a global trademark portfolio of 161 registration, as reflected by TMview:


This includes the US registration for MAGNACUT; I'm a bit surprised no attempt has been made to obtain trademark rights in other relevant territories though, perhaps for costs reasons.

No one else has registered the mark elsewhere, the US entry is the only one for the combination of the mark and the relevant class (6):

Click to expand...
There are reasons for some of the foregoing that nsm nsm was explaining briefly to me the other day. There are a number of intricacies involved, especially as it relates to matters of a foreign nature. I won't pretend to be conversant, nor to be able to speak of them with any level of clarity.

My limited understanding is that there is very little centralization, and the process of dealing with multiple jurisdictions in this regard is ponderous, at best.
 
Blues said:
There are reasons for some of the foregoing that nsm nsm was explaining briefly to me the other day. There are a number of intricacies involved, especially as it relates to matters of a foreign nature. I won't pretend to be conversant, nor to be able to speak of them with any level of clarity.

My limited understanding is that there is very little centralization, and the process of dealing with multiple jurisdictions in this regard is ponderous, at best.
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True in essence - IP rights are generally territorial in nature - but there is at least a semblance of centralization by way of the WIPO - World Intellectual Property Organization in Geneva - and (for trademarks) its so-called Madrid system (i.e. where the int'l treaty in question was signed - like the Geneva Conventions etc.), where on the basis of one national registration subsequent foreign registrations can be applied for. The Madrid system covers every country where you would ever want to sell a knife, but typically a registration for a few key markets will give you good enough coverage - not everyone needs "Coca Cola" level protection. Heck, a registration for the whole of the EU only costs ~$ 1,000 in official fees for one class of goods.

Uh, I'll stop at that.
 
TC said:
True in essence - IP rights are generally territorial in nature - but there is at least a semblance of centralization by way of the WIPO - World Intellectual Property Organization in Geneva - and (for trademarks) its so-called Madrid system (i.e. where the int'l treaty in question was signed - like the Geneva Conventions etc.), where on the basis of one national registration subsequent foreign registrations can be applied for. The Madrid system covers every country where you would ever want to sell a knife, but typically a registration for a few key markets will give you good enough coverage - not everyone needs "Coca Cola" level protection. Heck, a registration for the whole of the EU only costs ~$ 1,000 in official fees for one class of goods.

Uh, I'll stop at that.
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That's very interesting and hopefully nsm nsm , Bob, will see your comment. (I'm tagging him for that purpose, especially since it may accrue to their benefit to be aware of it.)

I had asked him if there was something like the equivalent of the international court at The Hague to deal with such matters, but I don't think he was aware of one, or I may simply have missed it among the other things we discussed. (My old outfit worked with matters of this nature, but I never worked in any of those units.)

Good stuff. Thank you.
 
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TC said:
True in essence - IP rights are generally territorial in nature - but there is at least a semblance of centralization by way of the WIPO - World Intellectual Property Organization in Geneva - and (for trademarks) its so-called Madrid system (i.e. where the int'l treaty in question was signed - like the Geneva Conventions etc.), where on the basis of one national registration subsequent foreign registrations can be applied for. The Madrid system covers every country where you would ever want to sell a knife, but typically a registration for a few key markets will give you good enough coverage - not everyone needs "Coca Cola" level protection. Heck, a registration for the whole of the EU only costs ~$ 1,000 in official fees for one class of goods.

Uh, I'll stop at that.
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We discussed buying the trademarks or being listed as a co-owner with Crucible earlier this year. We couldn't because of the pending sale and possible bankruptcy filing. We have applied for a patent and trademark for the new prototype grade and it looks like that will go through.
 
Blues said:
Just got off the phone with nsm nsm and verified that it is only the MagnaCut which cannot be shipped to Asia, not the other CPM steels.
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I'm gonna ask here: how is it that a company such as Bestech can sell knives in Magnacut? I'm in Canada, and I see them offered through a large retailer on the West Coast. No way to control it? Where could the 'leak' be?
 
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