CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

It's always been a little surprising how someone could copyright a common noun. I mean, if one sells tomahawks, why should one be expected not to use the name? Perhaps a bit differently, granted, like Tomahawz or some other spin, but again, it's not a name that should be too protected.

It's like that show I saw recently on the making of Three's Company. Suzanne Somers ran afoul of the network and then found that anytime she portrayed a dizzy blonde, the network would sue, saying that she was infringing on the "Crissy" character. But not all dumb blondes are Crissy (and vice versa). In other words, sometimes I think too much can be copyrighted, or that people put too much of an emphasis on brand names.

As far as blatant design copies, I'm also not sure how original anything can be. Having not been into knives long enough to see the generations of various models, I can say that an awful lot of knives look a lot alike. The only ones that look unusual are Spydercos, which I personally find to be functional but ugly. I would think CS would be very careful in what they produce. Have they actually ever been sued for stealing a design?
 
Confederate said:
As far as blatant design copies, I'm also not sure how original anything can be. Having not been into knives long enough to see the generations of various models, I can say that an awful lot of knives look a lot alike. The only ones that look unusual are Spydercos, which I personally find to be functional but ugly. I would think CS would be very careful in what they produce. Have they actually ever been sued for stealing a design?
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It really depends upon what you consider "knives look a lot alike".

I mean, I look a fair amount like my father when he was alive, but he was 6'3" and 240 lbs. I 5'6" and 170 lbs. I have a lot of tattoos, and am balding, my father never got tattoo'd and had a full head of hair when he passed away.

My point is that even though my father was my father, no one would ever confuse us, because we looked quite a bit different. Depending on how you see knives, the same situation may become evident.

As I said above, LT actively APPROPRIATES designs. This is the definition of APPROPRIATE: "To take possession of or make use of exclusively for oneself, often without permission". Lynn doesn't need permission in a lot of cases, because what he APPROPRIATES is not protected.

BUT....by doing this, Lynn has aptly earned a lot of hate or active dislike from those within the cutlery industry. In a word, he does not play nice with others.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Confederate said:
Have they actually ever been sued for stealing a design?
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I am not sure, but I do know that they have agreed to pay licensing fees when it was pointed out to them that were using patented designs without the other companies permission.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I am not sure, but I do know that they have agreed to pay licensing fees when it was pointed out to them that were using patented designs without the other companies permission.
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Ok Keith what were they?
 
db said:
Ok Keith what were they?
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Actually, Cold Steel had agreed to pay royalties to Spyderco on the sale of the Black Talon, but the project was stopped due to quality issues.

Cold Steel pays BM royalties for the use of the Ultra Lock.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Cold Steel pays BM royalties for the use of the Ultra Lock.
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Why haven't I heard about this before? I thought the Ultra Lock was supposed to sidestep the Axis patent. Did they try and fail?

I wish Brian Tighe would sue...
 
Martini said:
Why haven't I heard about this before? I thought the Ultra Lock was supposed to sidestep the Axis patent. Did they try and fail?
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I'm pretty sure that is what they (CS) had intended, and, in my opinion, that is certainly what their current add copy: http://www.coldsteel.com/recon1.html seems to imply with the use of the words, "patent pending". However, from what I have read and seen, CS licenses their lock design from BM. In a knife store, I saw a sticker on all of the CS Recon-1 boxes that mentioned a license for that knife from BM. After a search of the US patent database, I was unable to find any patent for the "ultra-lock", but I did find one for the "axis".

On an unrelated note, does anyone happen to know why Benchmade is referred to as something like the "Mentor Group" in some of their patent documentation?

Regards,
3G
 
I just like to state that if all these accusations are utter BS then y would everyone believe them so vehemently?

Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf. Even if LT has changed his ways (which i highly doubt), then he has a long road a-ho before he will be accepted by us knifeknuts.

Alot of the major makers & marketers of tactical knives are military or former military. Dishonorable actions like those of LT dont fly with these people.

I have owned an srk for 4 years now. Its an ok knife but it really does pale in comparison with the swamprat line-up. And for the same price you can buy a ranger knife of higher quality made by a person who is atleast upfront about their materials, And i have heard that justin stands behind his products one hundred percent.

also marketers like LT (and of course dork-ops) have damaged knife buyers reputation with his over the top ramblings. His "proof" dvd had a starring roll on an idiotic article in the Wall street journal quite recently.


Russ i am waiting on that info about the strider/mad dog mess. According to a post on another forums it appears that LT's roll was in the donation of money to defame the strider guys.
 
Although I would dearly love to be able to judge Lynn Thompson, the references to his alleged perfidies remain fairly veiled at best. Moral lines are drawn where legal ones apparently do not exist and Mr. Thompson stands condemned for doing what many business people do routinely. Cold Steel also apparently pays royalties when necessary, but I know of no lawsuits of a proprietary nature that he's currently facing.

Thus, I admit I cannot judge him one way or the other. But it would be nice to see specific charges made if he does engage in knife design piracy. Laying claim to a hawkbill blade design would seem somewhat shaky if Spyderco would have a piece of Mr. Thompson's pie. Designs do evolve and courts are where infringements are decided. If what is said about Cold Steel and Mr. Thompson is true, I would imagine they (and he) would have a long trail of litigation as a result.

To say that, "If all these accusations are utter BS then why would everyone believe them so vehemently?" is an absurd fallacy. One might say that if the accusations against the Jews in WWII Germany were utter BS, why would the Germans and other anti-Semetics have believed them so vehemently?

While I agree that while smoke sometimes leads to fire, smoke also sometimes is intended to obscure and avert truth.
 
I just like to state that if all these accusations are utter BS then y would everyone believe them so vehemently?
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This has got to be some of the goofiest reasoning I've ever heard. Since when is truth determined by popularity?
 
I have a AG russell city knife liner lock, a buck single blade cross lock, a berreta 4" lockback zytel and skeletanized blade, an old 3 1/2" blade kershaw starky ridge g-10 and titanium liner lock, and a cheap sharp tiny chinese lockback.

Guess what happened when I moderatly rapped the spine on my bed post, yes lock failure. considering some of the above brands I was suprised.

My Cold Steel , tylite blue ti, and tylite 6" 440A, vaquero 4" VG-1 steel, el lobo AUS 8A, landsea rescue, Guess what none of them failed and my opinion is they lock up strong for hell. I have not owened one cold steel that did not arrive really sharp. I belive Cold Steel properly tempers their steel and a properly tempered cheap steel (AUS 8A is not cheap junk by the way) will easily outperform top quality steel that a manufacturer has not properly tempered in order to cut down on production and quality control costs.

I know someone with a 4" Gerber applegate ATS-34 blade that can't take an edge for garbage. The older Gerber 5" version in 420 series (425M???) will slice rings around it.

Point is that while Cold Steel is not the universes' ultimate amighty knife as you people seem to chant over and over (an accusation that no knife manufacturer or individual could possibly stand up to)

I find Cold Steel products to generally be no nonsense solid kick butt quality. I belive there are people on this forum who have allowed their dislike for Cold Steels owner (LT) who has an abrasive and brutal straitforward approach to affect their judgement
 
Cold Steels owner (LT) who has an abrasive and brutal straitforward approach
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I think that's the first time I've ever seen Lynn Thompson called straightforward. He's been called a lot of things, but never that....
 
greater said:
I find Cold Steel products to generally be no nonsense solid kick butt quality. I belive there are people on this forum who have allowed their dislike for Cold Steels owner (LT) who has an abrasive and brutal straitforward approach to affect their judgement
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It is not a dislike of LT, but rather a dislike of the way he does business that causes me to have no intention of supporting his company. I know for a fact that many CS knives are good quality, but that's not enough to get my money.
 
Ok, I haven't even seen the notorious CS video, and have never handled a Cold Steel knife. I've seen a number of complaints on this forum, however, about CS blades snapping under stress, and I've pretty much eliminated them from consideration because of it. So, are these complaints unfounded? Is QC an issue for Cold Steel, or were these blades just a few random bad apples that slipped through?
 
Kickaha said:
Ok, I haven't even seen the notorious CS video, and have never handled a Cold Steel knife. I've seen a number of complaints on this forum, however, about CS blades snapping under stress, and I've pretty much eliminated them from consideration because of it. So, are these complaints unfounded? Is QC an issue for Cold Steel, or were these blades just a few random bad apples that slipped through?
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QC issue. A member here recently purchased a swamp rat. It had a critical failure. When it happened not only did they replace the knife free of charge but they asked him to send it in as this had never happened before.

You simply dont see issues like this with a swamprat/ busse/ strider/ tops/ ranger .....

No factory can eliminate 100% of the chanc eof a bad blade slipping out but if the qc is good than there wouldnt be this many.
 
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