CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

Andy_CN said:
There's nothing wrong with the performance of Cold Steel knives ;)

You may consider Lynn Thompson's business practices questionable
and let this influence your buying decision. But it has nothing to do
with the quality of Cold Steel knives.

In general, even a company you dislike for their business practices can
make good products.

EDIT: correcting some spelling mistakes
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we can agree to disagree on that piont given the fact that i have had several cold steal knives fail on me and in one instance fail by snapping in two.
 
valleytinworks said:
we can agree to disagree on that piont given the fact that i have had several cold steal knives fail on me and in one instance fail by snapping in two.
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Specific models and situations, please!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
valleytinworks said:
we can agree to disagree on that piont given the fact that i have had several cold steal knives fail on me and in one instance fail by snapping in two.
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The Cold Steel knives knew you don't like them :D

It seems that especially the people who have problems with Lynn Thompson's business practices
are experiencing problems with the quality and performance of Cold Steel knives, too.

Maybe your CS Tanto Recon was a lemon. Many people are quite satisfied with their CS knives
when considering the price/performance ratio.

I know Cold Steel's marketing hype but when using some common sense you really can't compare
their performance with much higher priced knives from other companies.
 
yeah when using common sense you can watch LT chop a tire in half and then you can try to cut down a sappling and end up with a chip in your edge.... hate to tell you but common sense isnt the thing lacking here... its the quality of a product compared to the hype of the same product.
 
valleytinworks said:
.... hate to tell you but common sense isnt the thing lacking here... its the quality of a product compared to the hype of the same product.
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I really don't care about the hype in the Solid Proof video, it's just marketing.

For me, the CS Tanto Recon or the CS SRK are knives that are available in the USA for
US$ 50-60 (in Germany the lowest online prices are US$ 100-110 :rolleyes: ), and I compare
the quality and performance with these prices. Considering the prices in the USA you really
can't complain about the price/performance ratio. Just my opinion.
 
After owning a dozen or so CS products I've only had one QC issue and after phones calls and a few e-mails I still haven't heard back from anyone at CS from two years ago.At that time I requested a replacement thumb-stud and that is my only complaint save the whimpy serrated edges that they offer.YMMV.tom.:confused:
 
Andy_CN said:
I really don't care about the hype in the Solid Proof video, it's just marketing.

For me, the CS Tanto Recon or the CS SRK are knives that are available in the USA for
US$ 50-60 (in Germany the lowest online prices are US$ 100-110 :rolleyes: ), and I compare
the quality and performance with these prices. Considering the prices in the USA you really
can't complain about the price/performance ratio. Just my opinion.
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I just dont get you people..... you say 'for the price'.... yet if a knife is broken or breaks when you need it then what good did it do you to 'save some money'..... further more THEY market the knives as indestructable etc etc etc and yet when they fail you all say 'for the price'


it just makes no sense to me.
 
valleytinworks said:
I just dont get you people..... you say 'for the price'.... yet if a knife is broken or breaks when you need it then what good did it do you to 'save some money'..... further more THEY market the knives as indestructable etc etc etc and yet when they fail you all say 'for the price'


it just makes no sense to me.
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Got to agree here. Don't own any CS knives, but if they claim it can do X, I expect it to do something < X easily enough. If they chop through a concrete block, it had better go right through a sapling like butter.
 
Do CS knives really suck? Not the ones I have had, but I haven't compared them side-by-side with some of the more sterling-reputed, expensive ones or custom-made ones. Maybe those are superior. Until I do that, I'll have to go on the experiences of others, and they appear to be mixed.

As far as Thompson "stealing/appropriating" designs, I don't know why that creates the outrage it seems to (unless he claims having actually invented things he didn't). If the patent runs on it, it's fair game (if the patent hasn't run on it, Thompson's company gets to pay through the nose in court).

The guy who originally had the patent might not be able to bring the product to market as efficiently as Thompson. It's better, IMHO, to have the design available to the knife-buying public, at a reasonable price, than have it unavailable forever owing to some inventor's eternal claim for exclusive rights on it. Some may disagree.

At the risk of starting a fight, I'd like to point out that one thing I respect about Thompson's company is exactly the same thing that many others hate about it.

For better or worse, Thompson has quite successfully exploited the "Mall Ninja" market segment.......
 
The knives are good for the price. By that it means that you're not paying for fancy 154CM stainless blades, which you pay big bucks for in most knives. A Voyager will get you a decent AUS 8A blade at a much more reasonable price and in larger sizes than you'll get with other makes.

The fancy steels don't make better weapons, and for field knives a case can be made that steels like AUS 8A are easier to sharpen with pocket sharpeners when they do need a quick edge. In short, while I'd like to have the option of better stainless grades, CS is into good knives at good prices.
 
Randy,
You are great at communicating your points, and you do have some valid ones. Unfortunately, not enough to ever sell me on Cold Steel. However, your logic is very sound. DngrRuss1 would be well advised to follow your lead, if he actually wishes to succeed at defending Cold Steel's reputation, unless of course you are already in his/CS's employ.:D (:D = joke, not a personal jab).

Confederate,
A good, well informed post as well.

Regards,
3G
 
3Guardsmen:

Your remark about me being somehow in the employ of Cold Steel was received in the manner that you meant it! :)

And for the record, I am not associated with them in any manner, way, shape or form (except as a customer). Also for the record, I think Thompson's marketing, while effective (and I admire that), can really be cheesy.

At some point I'd like to try out some of the premium knives out there by custom and semi-custom makers....maybe they WILL make me ditch the Cold Steel!

Your civility is an asset to this board and I commend you for it.

As I side note, I don't know which one you are, Tilghman, Thomas or Madsen, but one of my relatives (who was truly a disgrace) put an end to Tilghman...
 
I have a $12 bayonet that has held up far better than a $20 (internet price) Cold Steel throwing knife" The "knife" is utter crap, and doesn't even appear to be heat treated. It is bent and twisted just from throwing. It doesn't surprise me that there are often complaints about poor heat treat. This wouldn't be a big deal, except for the spotty customer service and warranty.

So in my case, it wasn't even "good for the money" because I have throwers that cost half as much that perform better and are properly heat treated.


Since Camillus was making the Carbon V blades for Cold Steel, why havent we heard similar tales of Beckers snapping during use?

Maybe the stick-tang/stress riser setup is just a poor design.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Since Camillus was making the Carbon V blades for Cold Steel, why havent we heard similar tales of Beckers snapping during use? Maybe the stick-tang/stress riser setup is just a poor design.
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I was wondering about that myself, and was advised to anneal the tang on my (hopefully soon to arrive) Trailmaster, since I'm going to re-handle it anyway.

Now I'm wondering if it would help to take the handle off, take it to a machine shop and have them weld a little fill behind the tang. Y'know, so I can grind it into a slow curve instead of a 90degree angle, then anneal the tang. Would this help or am I out-thinking myself?

EDIT: turns out I WAS out-thinking myself again. I've been advised that welding in the riser would only screw up the heat-treat and make it weaker. I was told if I wanted to radius that junction, to "sacrifice" a little blade length and grind in the radius. I know most people wouldn't bother with this sort of thing, but I'm the type that just has to mess around with almost anything I buy :)
 
I'd like to address some of the remarks regarding the &#8220;American Tomahawk Company&#8221; name to clarify the confusion that exists in this thread, about this issue.

Cold Steel registered the mark "American Tomahawk Company, est 1992" nearly 10 years before I approached Peter LaGana to discuss the new American Tomahawk Company. Neither Peter nor I were aware that Cold Steel ever registered this mark. In fact, I am not aware of any industry professional, magazine editor, or advertising professional, that was aware of it either. It was never used in any Cold Steel product catalog.

In April of 2002, nearly one and a half years after our investment in developing the brand name, "American Tomahawk Company", Lynn Thompson contacted me to inform me that I was infringing on his intellectual property.

We sought counsel from Intellectual Property attorneys, who concluded that Cold Steel's failure to ever use the mark as well as its "supplemental&#8221; status on the trademark register, (i.e. not on the principal register) made it clear that Cold Steel was not entitled to exclusive use of the mark. Additionally, our American Tomahawk Company had right of first use as well as proof of investment in developing the brand name within the purchasing public. We communicated this position to Cold Steel. Nonetheless, Mr. Thompson demanded that my Company purchase the mark for an exorbitant amount of money to avoid legal action.

In an attempt to preclude the cost of litigation, I submitted a proposal and payment schedule to Cold Steel, which was ultimately refused. It was immediately after those discussions ended that Cold Steel began to print &#8220;American Tomahawk Company, est. 1992&#8221; labels and attach them to every Tomahawk they marketed and sold, which to my understanding, were all imported and remain imported.

This dispute never rose to any formal legal complaint. Cold Steel continues to use the mark.

We have received nothing but support from countless industry professionals regarding this issue. Cold Steel&#8217;s products are of excellent reputation and Lynn Thompson should be credited as a pioneer in this industry. However, we don&#8217;t see eye-to-eye on this matter and probably never will. If anything, Cold Steel&#8217;s recent use of the mark helps them sell their own imported Tomahawks, which has on several occasions resulted in the customer believing they bought something from us. Therefore, their use of the mark doesn&#8217;t help me sell mine. However, many people don&#8217;t want to spend over $100 for an axe. For those customers, there is Cold Steel.
 
When I bought several Cold Steel Trail Hawks, I knew I was buying a Cold Steel marketed product. But I still surprised by the American Tomahawk Company sticker, as I've heard about the tomahawk company before and knew them to make more expensive and higher quality products. I settled on the impression that the same company produced these products in the USA for Cold Steel.

I must say it did give the product a better image than it prehaps would merit by itself.
 
You received good legal counsel. The right can only be established by use and "continuous" use. [That is why Ameritech kept using the Bell logo and name on its coin telephones when it otherwise stopped using the symbol and name (formerly Michigan Bell, Illinois Bell, etc,) and went to a region-wide use of "Ameritch" as its brand in all other respects. It needed to maintain use.
The "Bell" mark is still in use although "Ameritech" became part of "SBC" and "SBC" bought AT&T and has adopted that brand name.]

Trouble is, if you have knowledge that someone is using your mark and do not take action to prevent it in a "reasonable period of time" (Once my job for Snoopy and his gang.), you lose your exclusive rights in the mark.

CS never had such rights, not having actually used the mark, and his lawyers have likely told Thompson about that reality.
 
Geez, I had no idea that LT of CS did this. The blatant design copies from CS along ago turned me off from them, but this act is beyond the pale. All the while never saying nothing while you were promoting the ATC brand?? Wow, that is just nasty.
 
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