CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

[DngrRuss1]

3Guardsman-
My comments regarding the name calling were not meant specifically for you. you have actualy been pretty even handed with me. It was meant for some of the other haters who are not so level-headed.

My apologies for any misunderstanding.

 

[randytulsa2]

Don't know much about controversy and Cold Steel. I do know this: the knives that I've gotten from them have done what I wanted them to do.

I also know that if they had "stolen" designs they would have answered for it in court, early and often. I haven't heard of that happening.

Lastly, I know that their marketing approach is a little....I guess "smashmouth"(?) comes to mind. They're not a conservative, staid, traditional knife maker. Neither their knives nor their approaches to moving them fit the mold. They're not A.G. Russell, etc. Their knives don't look like it, and their marketing doesn't, either.

I don't know why they're not. Maybe Thompson wasn't welcomed with open arms into the knifemakig fraternity. Maybe he wasn't satisfied with the proper "place" he was offered in that world. Maybe Cold Steel's approach is just the best way, business-wise, to market the kinds of not-traditional-looking knives they make. Who knows?

Love'em or hate'em (and I can see why you might do either), you cannot deny the impact that Cold Steel, and Thompson have had on the knife world in the past few years.

 

[DaTrueDave]

Love'em or hate'em (and I can see why you might do either), you cannot deny the impact that Cold Steel, and Thompson have had on the knife world in the past few years.

?

I've only really been interested in decent knives for the past few years, and I've not heard or seen anything that shows that Cold Steel is anything special... What exactly are you talking about?

 

[3Guardsmen]

3Guardsman-
My comments regarding the name calling were not meant specifically for you. you have actualy been pretty even handed with me. It was meant for some of the other haters who are not so level-headed.

My apologies for any misunderstanding.

DngrRuss1,
No problem. I may not believe all that you say, and I may not like Cold Steel and it's owner, but I'll never call you names for defending your friends.

Love'em or hate'em (and I can see why you might do either), you cannot deny the impact that Cold Steel, and Thompson have had on the knife world in the past few years.

Randy,
Your post was a pretty good one, but can you elaborate on the "impact CS & LT have had on the knife world in the past few years"? Other than being the subject of many threads like this one, I fail to see the "impact" they've had.

Regards,
3G

 

[randytulsa2]

That was pretty much the impact I'm talking about- - people talk about them.

I'm not saying their knives are better than others, prettier, that their designs are innovative or (forgive me) "cutting edge" or that they've inspired many others.

But they have become well-known, even controversial, pretty quickly.

My impression is that they made an inroad into a fairly static market and I respect their ability to do so.

I, like many others, can criticize some of their marketing methods as hype, or a bit over-the-top (OK, sometimes more than a "little" over-the-top).

But I view their widespread recognition (positive and negative) as an achievement.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Randy,
You've got a very good point there! Thank you.

Regards,
3G

 

[Ebbtide]

You don't see the impact LT & CS have made?
How about the whole "hard use/abuse" marketing strategy?
LT & CS were the first (that I remember) to show a knife put through a 55gal drum.
How about the "armor piercing" (American) Tanto point?

I hold LT & CS responsible for the prevalence of sharpened prybars out there today

 

[Cougar Allen]

I remember knife ads in the back pages of comic books long before Cold Steel that featured "METAL PIERCING." They didn't specify what metal though ... could have been aluminum foil....

Cold Steel did a lot to popularize the American tanto. Whether that was an achievement or not....

 

[Kohai999]

I remember knife ads in the back pages of comic books long before Cold Steel that featured "METAL PIERCING." They didn't specify what metal though ... could have been aluminum foil....

Cold Steel did a lot to popularize the American tanto. Whether that was an achievement or not....

Funny, Cougar!

Ok, I have been sitting here, holding my breath, trying to decide what to do, so I am doing it.

Bob Lum created the American Tanto. That is it. He based the design on an armor peircing kwaiken antique that he had seen, and WHAM! built pretty much what we have today. Lynn purchased one, and started making a production version. First at Buck Knives, then when they got fed up with his advertising text, moved to japanese production. Bob never got credit from Cold Steel for this design.

One of the things that Cold Steel DOES do that is positive is work with some intriguing designs(things like the Special Forces shovel, the Sjambok) that have never seen mass market before. This is good.

The thing that I have seen in the last 20 years that is bad is how LT APPROPRIATES designs. It sucks, he is not very original in other areas.

Cold Steel came out with a version of an Axis Lock that would not have existed in McHenry/Williams had not created it in the first place.

The Black Sable is pretty danged close to a Brian Tighe knockoff, protestations to the opposite being what they are.

The sword cane that Cold Steel came out with is an inferior mass production reproduction of a Burger sword cane.

I was at one of the Guild shows in Las Vegas when LT was gleefully telling a friend of mine who works for him that the Barry Wood knife patent was going to expire. LT was really thinking about APPROPRIATING that design as well.

I don't hate Lynn, I have a respect for his business sense and marketing skills, but there are simultaneously off putting qualities to his make up, as well. It is entirely possible to respect aspects of a person's abilities, and be completely put off by their "flexible" scruples.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[3Guardsmen]

Funny, Cougar!

Ok, I have been sitting here, holding my breath, trying to decide what to do, so I am doing it.

Bob Lum created the American Tanto. That is it. He based the design on an armor peircing kwaiken antique that he had seen, and WHAM! built pretty much what we have today. Lynn purchased one, and started making a production version. First at Buck Knives, then when they got fed up with his advertising text, moved to japanese production. Bob never got credit from Cold Steel for this design.

One of the things that Cold Steel DOES do that is positive is work with some intriguing designs(things like the Special Forces shovel, the Sjambok) that have never seen mass market before. This is good.

The thing that I have seen in the last 20 years that is bad is how LT APPROPRIATES designs. It sucks, he is not very original in other areas.

Cold Steel came out with a version of an Axis Lock that would not have existed in McHenry/Williams had not created it in the first place.

The Black Sable is pretty danged close to a Brian Tighe knockoff, protestations to the opposite being what they are.

The sword cane that Cold Steel came out with is an inferior mass production reproduction of a Burger sword cane.

I was at one of the Guild shows in Las Vegas when LT was gleefully telling a friend of mine who works for him that the Barry Wood knife patent was going to expire. LT was really thinking about APPROPRIATING that design as well.

I don't hate Lynn, I have a respect for his business sense and marketing skills, but there are simultaneously off putting qualities to his make up, as well. It is entirely possible to respect aspects of a person's abilities, and be completely put off by their "flexible" scruples.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Great post, Steven!

Regards,
3G

 

[Halfneck]

Kohai999 - good post.

Sort of like your best friend's ex-girlfriend wants to hook up. She is hot as hell, and they are no longer together, but...

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I don't hate Lynn, I have a respect for his business sense and marketing skills, but there are simultaneously off putting qualities to his make up, as well. It is entirely possible to respect aspects of a person's abilities, and be completely put off by their "flexible" scruples.

I do not hate Cold Steel or Lynn Thompson, I just have no respect for some of the things he does.

Mick Strider has been brought into this discussion. From what I understand, Mick made some mistakes years ago, one of them very serious. It appears to me though that since that time he has turned his life around. What he did wasn't right, but I'm not going to hold it against him for the rest of his/my life. The problem that I have with Lynn Thompson is that he continues to do the things I consider to be unacceptable. If he were to have done these things ten years ago and then stopped, I wouldn't have any problem with him now either. In fact, I would love to have seen that, because I happen to like more than a few Cold Steel knives.

 

[Thomas Linton]

You don't see the impact LT & CS have made?
How about the whole "hard use/abuse" marketing strategy?
LT & CS were the first (that I remember) to show a knife put through a 55gal drum.
How about the "armor piercing" (American) Tanto point?

I hold LT & CS responsible for the prevalence of sharpened prybars out there today

In 1965 I bought a Buck "Special." The advertising "Grab"? Bucks can cut steel bolts in half. They even used an illustration of a knife being hammered theough a bolt in their advertising.

Actually, Richtig got in Believe It Or Not for cutting a buggy axle in half with one of his knives in 1936. How old was Thompson then?

The expression "sharpened prybar" appeared in the 1960's. A guy named Keith promoted remarkable thick and wide knives - so much so that they looked a couple of inches long if you had nothing to judge that length by. Draper, Hibben, and Moran were making massively thick knives in the 1960's. The Randall Model 14 is pretty much a sharpened prybar that go some D ) attention -- for being able to cut up 55 gal. drums. Ken Warner's 1976 book even had a chapter: "The Sharp Pry Bar."

 

[GibsonFan]

The expression "sharpened prybar" appeared in the 1960's. A guy named Keith promoted remarkable thick and wide knives - so much so that they looked a couple of inches long if you had nothing to judge that length by.

Was that the same Elmer Keith who was instrumental in developing the .44mag?

 

[valleytinworks]

lt and cold steal suck.... its plain and simple, if you care about integrity and performance and you stick around knives for more than the mall ninja phase you conclude the same thing.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Same Keith. Wish I could recall who made the knives. Could have been Hibben.

Oh, and John Nelson Cooper was making massive knives as well.

Recall that The Iron Mistress -- celebrating monster bowies -- was a 1950's movie. Big knives were part of popular culture.

 

[Andy_CN]

lt and cold steal suck.... its plain and simple, if you care about integrity and performance and you stick around knives for more than the mall ninja phase you conclude the same thing.

There's nothing wrong with the performance of Cold Steel knives

You may consider Lynn Thompson's business practices questionable
and let this influence your buying decision. But it has nothing to do
with the quality of Cold Steel knives.

In general, even a company you dislike for their business practices can
make good products.

EDIT: correcting some spelling mistakes

 

[Kohai999]

In general, even a company you dislike for their business practices canmake good products.

This is really true. Ultimately, the consumer has to make the decision on what to purchase. LT's business practices give me some pause, but, for instance, he started making a damned near indestructible katana when I really NEEDED one for martial arts.

I am pretty good friends with a fair amount of knife company Presidents or Vice Presidents, (Sal Glesser, Les DeAsis, Mike Fuller, Thomas W, Jeff Goddard, Butch Valotton, Todd Jones.....) that said, due to the fact that I don't think I could trust him, I would not reach out to Lynn. My .02, YMMV.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Actually, Richtig got in Believe It Or Not for cutting a buggy axle in half with one of his knives in 1936. How old was Thompson then?

The origional knives, the one handed stone axes were very much similar to the modern tacticals in the sense they are one tool fits all solutions. How old was Thompson when they were discovered. There were always knives of that type for all types of knives, shop utility, brush, garden, etc. . The current promotion of heavy tacticals is propogated by many makers who are much more extreme than Thompson in focus, like Strider which used to be very much metal/concrete and heavy prying. Thompson, for all the drum stabbing, does put efficient grinds on most of the knives and then in general cut well in regards to other production knives, much more so than many of the current pure tactical makers. Thompson is just an easy target and many of the complaints made against him would not be as easily accepted if applied to Buck and similar who as noted made just as extreme claims to sell knives.

-Cliff

 

[Kohai999]

....... Thompson is just an easy target and many of the complaints made against him would not be as easily accepted if applied to Buck and similar who as noted made just as extreme claims to sell knives.
-Cliff

Cliff, I agree with what you are saying for the most part, but I find LT to be extremely ruthless when he is APPROPRIATING designs, and he has not done much to politicially endear competitors. He is hardly an easy target, he has as many supporters as detractors, just like Strider.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson