CS- love 'em, hate 'em- time to address some issues

Does anyone else here have a CS brochure? I have! In it is a diagram of their "patented" Ultra Lock (it is on their website too). If it infringed on the Axis lock then they couldn't get the patent.
 
You are incorrect. Patents have been granted many times, only to be lost in subsequent litigation by someone claiming an infringement.
 
Saying something is patented isn't the same as saying "It's our patent." If there's a lisensing agreement, CS is now benefiting from BM's patent.
 
This summer I bought a ten-year-old satin CarbonV Trailmaster, a new CarbonV Master Hunter, and a new Rifleman's 'hawk. Being laid off from work all summer, I had plenty opportunities to test them all in rough conditions. The handle on the TM sucks as many have said; either replace it as I'm doing or at least use a lanyard to prevent throwing the thing into the woods. The Rifleman needed a good afternoon of work to get the horrible black enamel off it and put an edge ON it. The Master Hunter's handle, surprisingly, is very comfortable and feels secure in the hand; simply a more ergonomic design than on the TM.

All three have been used and abused... and yes, I DO mean abused. They all exhibit staining on the blades from moisture and food stuff as expected, and minor nicks in the edges. Nothing that didn't hone out easily with a medium Arkansas stone. Each stayed very sharp throughout use. Bottom line for me is, I have total confidence in these tools for camping etc, and I spent less than $200 on all three.

Just my $.02 :)
 
I used to like CS until I became educated in steels.

AUS-8A or VG 1 or whatever they're using these days are second grade steels. Sure, better than a gas station knife -but they can't touch companies like Spyderco or Benchmade with a ten foot pole. Plus, they're prices are high for what they offer.

It's about time CS started making knives from S30V, VG 10, etc. A "Made in Taiwan" knife is not comparable to a "Make in Japan" or a "Made in the USA" knife. Even Kershaw is better.

CS doesn't even have any in-house manufacturing capabilities. Isn't it weird how they always come out with something AFTER someone else?

Even their "Americanized tanto" was copied from Bob Lum. Did they ever invent anything?
 
flatgrinder said:
Even their "Americanized tanto" was copied from Bob Lum. Did they ever invent anything?
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Geez, give it a rest... are you guys still debating who invented the bowie, too? Perhaps someone will file a lawsuit saying their great-great-granddaddy was the first to put his knife in a sheath and sue every maker for infringement. :jerkit: I suppose all the makers here should just stop making knives, since whatever the design they use, surely someone has made it before.

I do agree with what you said about CS's steel... I wouldn't buy anything stainless from them. I'm not a big stainless fan anyway, and they seem to use the worst of it. My point was that the CarbonV stuff (whatever it actually is) performs, sharpens, stains and withstands abuse like a good carbon steel should.
 
GibsonFan said:
Geez, give it a rest... are you guys still debating who invented the bowie, too? Perhaps someone will file a lawsuit saying their great-great-granddaddy was the first to put his knife in a sheath and sue every maker for infringement. :jerkit: I suppose all the makers here should just stop making knives, since whatever the design they use, surely someone has made it before.
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I'm not sure you understand.

The "Americanized Tanto" as we know it, would simply not exist if Bob Lum had not created it. In all this time, there has not been anyone to step forward and make a "better" one. Sure, similar pieces would exist, but you are talking about virtual design perfection out of the gate with his design.

The contribution Bob Lum has made cannot be minimized or trivialized, which is what you are appearing to try with your statement.

To put in an analogy that might make sense to you, Les Paul created a awful lot of innovations that might not exist, if it were not for him. The electric guitar was still have invented, though, it is just that Les put his unique stamp on things, and we should give him credit for that.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I'm not sure you understand.
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I understand completely... some people take offense to CS's alleged business practices and therefore choose not to buy from them. However, I must confess I don't understand why so many people devote so much time to ripping down one particular company or brand.

You're quite right that Messers. Lum and Paul should be credited for their innovations. As should Mr Ford. However, I don't hear too many people discrediting, say, Ibanez (guitars) or Honda because they "stole" a previous design.

I know next to nothing about Mr Lum or his work, nor do I really care. But I gather he refined a design which had been in existence for centuries (made it shorter and hollow-ground it); that's hardly ground-breaking. Mr. Paul invented an instrument which had never been realized before, and changed the way music is made... big difference there.

By the way, which Japanese swordsmith's family is receiving royalties on any of the zillions of tanto's Mr Lum has sold over the years?

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. I just think it's ridiculous to argue the origin or "authenticity" of a design such as the tanto or bowie made by a modern manufacturer. Both have been around for a long, long time and will continue to be popular because they're good efficient designs... nothing more!

And to think, all I intended to do was offer a brief review of a couple knives I bought and enjoy... silly me :rolleyes:
 
Thomas Linton said:
Pardon, but you did not start this thread. Perhaps you are thinking of another thread.
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Ooops! Sorry to interject any reality into this esoteric thread :) I notice you haven't addressed my point about "infringement".

Far from hijacking the thread, I merely stated that the knives I chose from CS (I chose them very carefully, btw) performed to my expectations. CS's literature was forthright in regards to these particular tools. A bit silly, but accurate.

Since the only reply to my little review was to beat the tanto-dead-horse yet again, I responded with my opinion on that subject... which is that it's a moot point.

Edit: I'd be happy to see a link to some info regarding Mr. Lum's original designs. It's all well and good to tell me I'm incorrect; please show me why. The tanto's being sold under his name now look a whole lot like ... guess what... the same tanto's everbody else makes. http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/lumtf.htm
 
GibsonFan said:
Ooops! Sorry to interject any reality into this esoteric thread :) I notice you haven't addressed my point about "infringement".
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Nor will I. It's not a subject about which am qualified to speak. Not to be harsh, but it's sorta like you talking about Lum's "American Tanto" vs. Japanese patterns.

Far from hijacking the thread, I merely stated that the knives I chose from CS (I chose them very carefully, btw) performed to my expectations. CS's literature was forthright in regards to these particular tools. A bit silly, but accurate.

Since the only reply to my little review was to beat the tanto-dead-horse yet again, I responded with my opinion on that subject... which is that it's a moot point.
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Understood.

My impression is that the majority of negative comments about CS do not relate to the relative quality of the products that they market.
 
Thomas Linton said:
My impression is that the majority of negative comments about CS do not relate to the relative quality of the products that they market.
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Fair enough. Although many people here have flatly said that all CS is junk; that's why I offered my experience with a limited range of "thier" knives.

I wasn't being sarcastic about wanting to see Mr. Lum's work; haven't been able to find much so far. What exactly were his contributions to the evolution of the design?
 
I have communicated with C:S: and was assured : I would not be disappointed with their product :

Needless to say I was . I E-mailed them twice telling them I did not want a refund just the courtesy of a reply to their own statement . None was forthcoming . I have had products from them that were good and some that were bad with no relation to price . How can one depend on a company that does their clients this large a discourtesy .
 
Y'know, when it comes to the American Tanto, at what point (pun) does it stop being Mr. Lum's design?

Is it a degree, is it the hollow grind - flat grind, etc.?

Is the 910 a rip-off of the design?

Not trivializing Mr. Lum, just wonderin'?
 
orthogonal1 said:
Y'know, when it comes to the American Tanto, at what point (pun) does it stop being Mr. Lum's design?

Is it a degree, is it the hollow grind - flat grind, etc.?
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At no point does it stop being a "derivative" of a Lum tanto, in the same way that it never stops being a "derivative" of a Loveless design when you are talking about a dropped point hunter, of the Loveless style.

No one is saying that Benchmade or any other company but Cold Steel should have to credit Bob Lum for the design, at this point, many designs of the "American Tanto" have veered so far off of the original, that they are similar to, yet not the same.

That is not the case with Cold Steel, it was a straightforward copy of design, you can call it whatever you wish to.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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