CS Recon Scout Fails Miserably

Status
Not open for further replies.
TLM said:
GC;


NO IT WOULD NOT. I depends on the way it is stressed. Batoning does not stress the blade/tang juncture if done on the back of the blade.

It is a good thing that most people here do not design aircraft, we would have lost one of our moderators long ago. :D :D

TLM
Click to expand...

Let me explain this.....by designing a blade like this you are setting it up for failure. Heat treaters know this, bladesmiths know this, and metallurgists know this. 90 degree inside angle = BAD

It might not create a stress crack in this area during heat treat but the potential is there.

You might get away with it on 99% on the blades but that other 1% will come back and bite you.....just like it did here. This is why you don't leave the tang/blade junction like this.

I agree that lateral stress is much worse than "proper" batoning...

I heard a figure once that something like 80% or more of knives sold, custom and production, rarely ever see use.....much less hard use.

This is a very interesting blade failure and should be seen as educational for all here.
 
I've been kinda under the allusion that improvisation was a primary essence of survival?

True; when you have the proper tools and take the time to plan ahead, surviving reverts to vacation time. Getting in over your head is not an accomplishment to be proud of; life is much better when you take steps ensure that any likely problem can be delt with before it becomes a deperate crisis.

n2s
 
I used to be a BIG C.S. fan too.I've never broken one,but what turned me off was the Quality Control.I bought a Laredo bowie 1 1/2 yrs ago and the grinds were so far off on either side it was Pathetic.It took me almost 6 months to get one to my satisfaction.I'm a retired Harley Davidson Mechanic and know a little about Machine work and what can be done with metals.If a set of Engine cases can be made within Ten Thousnads of an inch,then the grinds on a knife can be made close enough to where you would have to look hard to find Uneven Grinds or Tip.Plus if you buy a C.S. knife from someone who Isn't a certified CS dealer,you'll be Damn lucky if they even Honor their warrenty.If the product is Brand New and made by them,then they should stand behind it.I WON'T be buying anymore CS knives unless I can Inspect it before laying out any cash.
 
my first thought when seeing the picture in the top post, "You have GOT to be kidding !!"

interpretation: I would never even think of trying to split logs with a knifeblade. Someone has got to be kidding.

I don't see thin slices of kindling being made in that picture, I see somebody trying to split logs. That knife is way in there, taking a big bite of log, not a small slice of kindling.

I don't see knife abuse, I see foolishness. If other folks have "split logs" with their knife blades and succeeded, then I'm obviously learning a new lesson here. Personally, I'd never consider log splitting like this, not even with my SOG Tigershark.

In Amazement,

Carl
 
My worthless $.02:

I was looking at the Recon Scout a while back. I opted instead for the SRK. I am happy so far. I haven't been spliting logs with it. I prefer a saw/hatchet/axe for that sort of thing. I don't expect my $45 SRK to perform like a $300 Chris Reeve. You get what you pay for. For many, that is a negative statement. For me, it simply means that I don't expect things from an inexpensive knife that I would from an expensive one, regardless of the manufacturer's claims. As far as I'm concerned, CS knives ARE worth what you pay for them. If you need it to split logs, slice steel cable, or peirce airplane skins, find a better tool for the job (like a Dark Ops :D ).
 
4 Ranges said:
I was always taught that survival was about preparedness. Take care of your gear, and your gear will take care of you. Not only do you clean it, and make sure it will work under stress, but that it's used for the job it's designed for. Asking it to do something that it's not often leads to problems.
Click to expand...


i have heard this example given before, and it was always funny to me, because of how realistic it is. [paraphrased]

"survival is being thrown and locked out of your house by your wife at 1am in 20 degree snow, in only your boxers"
 
SethMurdoc said:
i have heard this example given before, and it was always funny to me, because of how realistic it is. [paraphrased]

"survival is being thrown and locked out of your house by your wife at 1am in 20 degree snow, in only your boxers"
Click to expand...


Nahhh. That 's the winner on this week's America's Funniest Videos. :eek:
 
not2sharp said:
Those are only for de-animation, and you know it. :D

n2s
Click to expand...

hey, if some tree things that just because he's bigger then me he can deanimate me without grevious sapspray as a consequence, my dark ops will show him different.
 
I'm really surprised at all the people who have posted, thinking that batoning is "obviously" a case of abuse/stupidity. It makes me think they've never actually done this, or even put that much thought into it. It's far easier to baton through a small log with a knife, than it is to use a heavy axe, or even most domestic hatchets. All the stress during batoning should be on the spine of the blade, not on the handle/tang juncture, and remember folks, this is a stick we're using to baton here, not some sledgehammer. The worst damage a knife should take is some paint removal assuming it's coated, or maybe some small scratches from dirt on the stick.

I've batoned through 6 inch maple logs with a practice knife I'd forged out of mild steel, with a stick tang less than a half inch wide, with no damage whatsoever. The tang/blade area didn't bend, or deform, because it's the last place a knife should fail when batoning through wood.

Be sure to keep us informed as to how Cold Steel handles this. Even if they refuse warranty service you can still try to repair the RS via welding, or make a smaller knife out of it. If you ever get the chance, maybe get close up pictures of the blade where the crack seems to have started, if possible clear enough so that the steel grain is visible.
 
i agree with yoda on this so called abuse issue. all the experts i've ever heard of even if they prefer a small thin blade backed up with a axe/hatchet or the ron hood chop til ya drop use batoning. it is the quickest and easiest way to get a log split and in a survival situation time is of most importance.

when cs dropped the satin finish tm from their line for the black epoxy version it had a considerable price drop, something like a $100 or more. that was either the best satin finish or something else got dropped too like a good heat treatment.

give me a pre mid 90's cs fixed blade and a new one for a test and i bet there would be a big difference in performance
 
I think it was a fine knife, a bit of a crappy log-splitter*, but a great knife.

Perhaps if your wrote to the company and asked them, "What knife do you sell, that you suggest I use to split 6 to 8 inch logs with?" you will have the answer?


(* But then again,it probably would have made a crappy tire iron too, a crappy car jack,,,a crappy post pounder,,,,a real crappy alarm clock,,,,and a totally inadequate baby toy)
 
"COLD STEEL
WORLD'S STRONGEST, SHARPEST KNIVES

. . .

SRK (SURVIVAL RESCUE KNIFE)

Survival/Rescue operations demand a versatile knife able to withstand extreme abuse. The SRK was designed with this in mind."

Source: Cold Steel website.

Wasn't. Didn't.
 
there seems to be a continuing question of wether or not a knife should be expected to be able to take such an action as batoning.


i have always felt that a survival knife should be something that you cannot break with your bare hands. meaning, something that you cannot break without using power driven machinery, or a device made solely for the purpose of breaking the knife.

anything less is a liability.

in a knife, that failure (in the picture) is simply the limits of that knife given its steel, its heat treat, and its geometry. there are knives that can take more abuse then it, and it would be advisable to use them instead if such a use is intended in the future. if cutting performance is a higher requirement, then the skill of the user should be iether honed, or techniques developed to delay or remove the possibility of such a break should that specific use be a required action of the knife.

in a survival knife - that break is unacceptable.


a quick question on geometry given that the knife has a consistent heat treatment:

were you to remove the handle, and grind out the square tang to ricasso junction to make it a smooth curved transition, similarly to whats seen on the swamp rat and busse hidden tang knives, would it dramatically increase the strength of the rsk in that area, to the point that such a failure would be significantly less likely to happen?
 
witchhunter said:
when cs dropped the satin finish tm from their line for the black epoxy version it had a considerable price drop, something like a $100 or more. that was either the best satin finish or something else got dropped too like a good heat treatment.

give me a pre mid 90's cs fixed blade and a new one for a test and i bet there would be a big difference in performance
Click to expand...


Interesting.
I wonder if CS switched manufacturers?

And for everyone who has quoted CS's website and catalog...
Get over it. Those words are advertising copy. Not Gospel.
Look around you at all of the ad copy that you read and don't believe..Lowest prices! Lifetime guarantee! The Best, Latest, Improved!
Why would you want to believe knife ad copy and not the rest?
 
I say yes, that break was the result of a flaw in design first and foremost. A crack that formed during hardening was probably what caused the break to start, but had the tang been properly radiused (it doesnt take much really) then the crack probably never would have occured in the first place, even if the blade was a little too hard.

As long as a minimal amount of steel was removed in the process, and there wasn't a small fracture there to begin with, then yes, radiusing that area, making sure that the grind lines are parallel to the length of the blade would have most likely prevented a failure.

I used to have a CS Trailmaster, same knife as a recon scout but a bit longer. I've put it through far harder use than the RS in question, and it held up fine. This means that the knife in question should have been perfectly capable of what was described by the poster.
 
yoda4561 said:
I'm really surprised at all the people who have posted, thinking that batoning is "obviously" a case of abuse/stupidity. It makes me think they've never actually done this, or even put that much thought into it.
Click to expand...

Surprised that we wonder how a knife came to be embedded in a log up to it's hilt and spine, and obviously not about to go any further? Batonned? No, more like "hammered". Who teaches these concepts? Does this pass for proper use of a knife these days? Which survival schools? Which experts? As one of those "who've never actually done this", I can feel the knife work and split it's way thru the wood. I can also tell when I'm merely hammering it--the same sensation as driving a nail. You know that the wood "ain't budging". A good time to stop. Any woodworkers here? If so, you undoubtedly can tell the difference in the feedback you receive when tapping (batonning) a wood chisel versus that one when the chisel starts to drive itself too deeply into the wood. Most would reposition the chisel. Seems a few would keep pounding until the chisel was ruined.

Survival knife for building (starting) a fire? Most definitely. Not much wear and tear on a knife to split branches into kindling. That was apparently done by the first poster (the log and embedded log are adjacent to a passing fine fire). I doubt that a SAK would be overtaxed by that task. But why the need for a massive "survival" knife if that's your stated task? Survival is one thing. Most, if not all, survival tasks could be done with that same SAK. If you want to build a city in the woods (chopping, splitting logs, felling trees, whatever), at least don't blame the improper tools when they come up short.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top