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I'm with you :thumbup:
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
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Custom knives same as semi production?
- Thread starter QuietBearr
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- Dec 14, 2009
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peanuts/LX_Emergency,
I didn't bother to take that post into consideration, because frankly QuietBearr was only served up what he was dishing out.
Larry
I didn't say whether or not it was justified/right, I was just pointing out you did not remain 100% polite and proffesional the entire time, as people were praising you for doing.
Larry, if you see it that way, fair enough. However I do not believe you can pretend things did not happen just because you happen to agree with those actions.
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- Oct 19, 2008
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Sorry, but this example is gross representation of what I said, seeing as I have clearly said from day one the exact process the knives I make go through, including video coverage. So.. I am not misrepresenting anyone.
But there are a great many knifemakers that do misrepresent using words like Hand-made, custom, customized.. This is where the fraud comes in..
Customized? good lord.. thats the Act of making something custom.. its not a state of an item. Thats how stupid the industry has become.. Mid-Tech? Made up by someone to sell knives.. These are all just uses of words to sell stuff. they are ALL misleading.
In the case of your example with Jerry Busse. the person ordering the knives is the buyer. the 1000 knives are custom knives to that buyer. If that person wants to then onsell the knife and say its his, then thats between him and Jerry. no one else. If that person Approached JERRY, and said.. I have a design, I am a knife maker, but I want your company to implement my idea, and to put or not put his own label on the damn thing then yes by god he is a knife maker if his contract stands up to it.
You can sit here all day making up your own meanings of words.. but at the end of the day court is where it lies. You either represent yourself well or you do not.. If you are not my customer your interpretation actually means nothing at all..
if you buy a benchmade without looking to see if its made in USA or Taiwan, then dont cry foul after. it is buyer beware, or more.. dont be stupid.
Show me anyone that has detailed publically as much as I do about how I make my knives.
Buy your token of Discounting BUYER BEWARE.. I should goto Jerry Hossum, order a knife. and then BECAUSE I AM A DUMB ASS who thought custom, hand made meant FORGED, I should get my money back and tell Jerry Hossum he is a fraud and liar because he doesn't forge his knife?
You are arguing from a subjective viewpoint, just like I am. You can insist that anyone is a knifemaker by any standard you choose.. Just like I can argue that you are not really Real because I just see words on the internet.. you could all be programmed responses by an AI in Bladeforums..
Is fine to discuss such matters.. but people should at least be real that you are not talking as an authority, only from personal opinion.
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Well, I never said I was going to be polite, and quite frankly there was no reason I should.
Peanuts, I have no idea what you do for a trade.. but lets say you were nice enough to make videos and show people what you did, and how so that there was no misleading confusion about what you did.. No ability for someone to misunderstand the use of "knifemaker" or "custom" or "handmade" because you went to the effort of putting it all on video, and also helping others along the way who share your enjoyment.
Now lets say some other dude decides that looks like a great idea and decides to do the same thing. Then they come to your site and start correcting you with opinions, and telling you that what you do isn't the Real stuff like he does (even though he's just starting out). Then lets say that because he doesn't like your interpretation and things you should say it the way he likes, he starts a campaign on his own site bashing you, and then takes it to another public forum that might have lots of your customers on and also knock what you are doing.. (instead of simply raising a generic isolated question for opinion to support his own trade)..
How do you think you would feel about that person? do you think you would remain polite? If you say yes.. then.. tell me what you do and where.. and I can certainly show you what it feels like..
Not long ago.. A.G Russel posted a knife in the 2010 catalogue that looks similar to my knife.. he said it was a design from 10 years ago that he just released.. Some guy, not even a customer of mine created a blog and said that he COPIED my design because he cant think of his own..
Let me tell you.. Mr Russell Sure lost his cool. even took it out on me when I had nothing to do with the post.
Mr Russell did what I am about to do.. realise its not worth the effort, shrug it off, and move on. Mr Russell and I are fine with each other.. its the people with agendas that stir up the trouble.
Consumer doesn't really need to know any trade secrets. In case of Busse combat knives, as a buyer of his knives, I don't really need to know how he heat treats his INFI. As a matter of fact I might just want to know how knife performs. That is it. But one might want to know, for example, who's working on "custom shop" pieces. Does Jerry grind those blades himself, who selects the handle material, who attaches them and so on... Those aren't really trade secrets. I also can understand, if Boss decides not to disclose this information.
Kyley, I can see your point and if this whole thing has played out as you say it has then I can see why you feel this way about the OP, and I wouldn't blame you for saying what you did. It still happened though. As it is however, I do not know enough about the whole situation to pass judgments on the actions of those involved, or take sides in the matter. I was simply pointing out some facts earlier. As for what I do for a trade, I'm an unemployed sixteen year old (as of several hours ago).
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Well, bummer dude.. still you are young.. I think you should take up knifemaking
its fun.It did play out just like I said, and by being brought here it was dragged way out of context.
There are only a few important things here. I have over 120 customers (none are unhappy and none were mislead) They all consider me a knifemaker, as do I. Its only a hobby so I dont heavily market myself. I never put down other makers, even when I think their work is crap. I will either not comment, or simply say.. goodluck..
For any work, there will always be an appreciater. The internet is full of people that cant do or say what they like and upset others lives. The real question is.. what was to gain by any of this? absolutely nothing except trying to put me down because I am doing well and have a lot of people that respect my work.
As For Jerry Busse.. He is the MAN, he makes cool knives and I own a number of them. at the same time, I know a lot of people that would say he isn't a real knifemaker because his knives are too heavy, too fat, cant cut.. etc etc.. There is always someone to put down what they disagree with. Me? I reprofile my Busses because I know how and grind them to a geometry that suits me. Good knives every one.. but some people still call them prybars.. ? there is always one.
Now.. with respect.. I will continue to enjoy my holiday and make a few knives.
Today infact, I am going to make a picnic butter knife.. its going to be a one piece integrated affair, hand-ground and shaped by me out of a single block of treated wood. Again.. there is nothing on earth that actually defines a knife as being made of steel, or being heattreated, or even being sharp. People that use these things to argue a point are just biased.
Heck.. I may even do a lettuce knife while I am at it..
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Well, bummer dude.. still you are young.. I think you should take up knifemaking
It did play out just like I said, and by being brought here it was dragged way out of context.
There are only a few important things here. I have over 120 customers (none are unhappy and none were mislead) They all consider me a knifemaker, as do I. Its only a hobby so I dont heavily market myself. I never put down other makers, even when I think their work is crap. I will either not comment, or simply say.. goodluck..
For any work, there will always be an appreciater. The internet is full of people that cant do or say what they like and upset others lives. The real question is.. what was to gain by any of this? absolutely nothing except trying to put me down because I am doing well and have a lot of people that respect my work.
As For Jerry Busse.. He is the MAN, he makes cool knives and I own a number of them. at the same time, I know a lot of people that would say he isn't a real knifemaker because his knives are too heavy, too fat, cant cut.. etc etc.. There is always someone to put down what they disagree with. Me? I reprofile my Busses because I know how and grind them to a geometry that suits me. Good knives every one.. but some people still call them prybars.. ? there is always one.
Now.. with respect.. I will continue to enjoy my holiday and make a few knives.
Today infact, I am going to make a picnic butter knife.. its going to be a one piece integrated affair, hand-ground and shaped by me out of a single block of treated wood. Again.. there is nothing on earth that actually defines a knife as being made of steel, or being heattreated, or even being sharp. People that use these things to argue a point are just biased.
Heck.. I may even do a lettuce knife while I am at it..
be sure to make a video bud I love watching your vids!
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I just finished my Prototype out of kwila for my picnic knife. %100 made by me, ground by me, designed by me, and heattreated with friction by me.
Total time was about 15 minutes.. For anyone that doesn't know. Hardwood like Kwila burns up Belts just as fast as annealed steel, and its just as hard to work.. simply not as tough.
There is no requirement for a knife to be made of steel to be a knife..
Video will be uploaded in an hour or 2..
Be warned.. I rant while displaying the knife
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BINGO...You hit the nail bang on the head.
Oh boy I love for some one to move this to W&C
So I'll only say this.
I've even had a few disagreements with him,and even if he's wrong,he'll never admit to it.
He thinks he knows all...
Be warned.. I rant while displaying the knife
well... you made your point, but.... it will be very difficult for many people to agree with some of your statements.You say that grinding is easy, it takes practice, but doesn't require skill. Well skill is ability acquired through practice. Saying that grinding is not hard without specifying what kind of grinding you're talking about, might rise up a lot of questions and upset some people. I agree that taking a power tool or even a file and removing metal on one end of the metal blank, doesn't take much. It still can be called grinding. Only doing it very good requires skills. It isn't easy to put a nightmare grind on a knife, like on one of Mike Strider customs or regrind work that Tom Krein does. It does require skill. Your might call those guys artisans of their trade. The work they do is not that easy.
Another thing.... Somebody buys production knife and modifies it. By your definition it is a "custom" knife. OK, it probably is. But who should take the credit for production of this knife? Company that made the knife in the first place or person who put a wave feature on it?
Also, saying that anyone who designs a knife is a knife maker is a big stretch. What about 2 year old boy who watches his father play with knives, and he draws one of his own designs on paper. Is this 2 year old a knifemaker already?
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If it is your design, your CUSTOM design, it is a custom knife. Everything else can work against the asking price. For instance a knife maker makes a one of a kind it should be worth the most. If he made ten the same then maybe that might bring the value down. The most important thing is that there is a knifemaker involved in making that knife even the novice putting together pre-made parts is still a knifemaker.
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If it is your design, your CUSTOM design, it is a custom knife. Everything else can work against the asking price. For instance a knife maker makes a one of a kind it should be worth the most. If he made ten the same then maybe that might bring the value down. The most important thing is that there is a knifemaker involved in making that knife even the novice putting together pre-made parts is still a knifemaker
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You say that grinding is easy, it takes practice, but doesn't require skill. Well skill is ability acquired through practice. Saying that grinding is not hard without specifying what kind of grinding you're talking about, might rise up a lot of questions and upset some people. I agree that taking a power tool or even a file and removing metal on one end of the metal blank, doesn't take much. It still can be called grinding. Only doing it very good requires skills. It isn't easy to put a nightmare grind on a knife, like on one of Mike Strider customs or regrind work that Tom Krein does. It does require skill. Your might call those guys artisans of their trade. The work they do is not that easy.
Another thing.... Somebody buys production knife and modifies it. By your definition it is a "custom" knife. OK, it probably is. But who should take the credit for production of this knife? Company that made the knife in the first place or person who put a wave feature on it?
Haha.. I wasnt reading off a pre written script.. so I'll be the first to admit to some gibberish in there.. As you say.. some people have taken grinding to a level I would call Artisan. They are worthy of admiration. They do things that defy others. But by being better at the trade does not mean that others not so good are not allowed to also have a right to the trade.
As for the skill.. Yes. Grinding is something ANYONE can learn.. some will be better, some more skillfull, but Anyone is capable of learning, even without a teacher. As opposed to doctors, etc who are trades that lets face it, not everyone can do.
As for the last comment, Who owns it.. In fairness if it was me i would say "This is a Custom Benchmade 940. Made by benchmade. What makes is custom is that I did A, B & C to it" Then if I wanted to sell it I will sell it as a Custom Knife where the Custom Work was done by me. EDIT: The purpose is to give credit to the design and intellectual property of the knife to benchmade, but fairly take credit to the custom knife I now have, (which I probably feel is better than the original)
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OK. Would you say that your CKC Hiker is "a Custom Svord Peasant knife. Made by Svord. What makes it custom is that I modified the blade, replaced the handle..."