Cutting out the middle man

[betover]

This is probably off topic, but I see hundreds of knives from China on eBAY & other outlets, but to my understanding most of the Chinese are forbidden from owning them much less carrying them.

 

[Dfunk1210]

That's because Hong Kong is the true wild west of a free market capitalist. Companies that start there go under the same day. Tech companies go there just to operate outside of US jurisdiction.

You say copyright infringement?

In New Zealand online copyright infringement is not criminal under their copyright Act per Kim dotcom case. He's actually wanted by the FBI in the united states for extradition.

what's law of the land in one land isn't the law on another land.

Cloning a US patent in Hong Kong is not something their government will regulate and you won't make trade agreements with them.

It's why I say you want to get upset at clones and ethics, get you're priorities straight and be upset with all the American companies outsourcing to China...

You're against clones but ok with buying Chinese Spyderco, Cold steel, Schrade, Case, SOG, Buck all American companies who now operate in China where they have no laws regulating copyright infringement and no showing in wanting to make trade agreements to regulate those laws.. The pot calling the kettle black. The same company that doesn't want you to buy a clone literally will move operation to Hong Kong for revenue where it's the culprit of clones.

Spyderco is suing ebay based on counterfeit clones. Yet you moved operation to the very place that does the clones.

First of all, most clones are sourced from mainland China, not Hong Kong. Hong Kong has a zero tolerance stance on Counterfeits. Sure some will get through the cracks. You can't catch em all.

But let me get this straight. You are saying because Counterfeits are largely sourced from China, everyone there must be bad and we should not do business with them. You know, there are plenty of crooks in the United States. Should other countries not do business with us? Under your logic, us Americans must all be bad. I smell blind politics.

 

[needler420]

No what I'm saying is all those American knife companies move operations and make trade agreements with the Chinese, then they get upset about their products being cloned and intellectual property infringement.

And it's not some bad people in China that you keep failing to read. It's their entire culture. Their government DOES NOT recognize copyright infringement. There is no enforcement or regulation. Yet these American knife companies are signing contracts with them then screaming clones after. And yes certain countries we should not be in trade agreements with. Look how long it took to open up with Cuba.

Another example is New Zealand. Copyright infringement is not criminal in their culture.


Well that American knife company just signed a contract with a country that has no laws on copyright. So here you haven a general consensus saying Chinese culture won't regulate copyright, then you have the American companies coming and making deals with those very people.

 

[marcinek]

And it's not some bad people in China that you keep failing to read. It's their entire culture. Their government DOES NOT recognize copyright infringement.

"The government" is not the same as "the people" or "the culture." Anywhere.

And that you draw conclusions about the entire Chinese culture and how bad they are in their entirety borders on bigotry.

Wow.

I am outta here BTL.

 

[MolokaiRider]

Seems like a few have falling into Thucydides trap...

"The government" is not the same as "the people" or "the culture." Anywhere.

And that you draw conclusions about the entire Chinese culture and how bad they are in their entirety borders on bigotry.

Wow.

I am outta here BTL.[/QUOTE


I’m with you on this one...

I’m with you on this one...labels for an entire country is silly.

 

[colin.p]

Seems like a few have falling into Thucydides trap...






I’m with you on this one...labels for an entire country is silly.

"Thucydides trap..." I had to Google that one. Interesting read.

 

[needler420]

"The government" is not the same as "the people" or "the culture." Anywhere.

And that you draw conclusions about the entire Chinese culture and how bad they are in their entirety borders on bigotry.

Wow.

I am outta here BTL.

It's not a conclusion it's a fact the Chinese government does not recognize copyright infringement. They don't prosecute or regulate it. How is that a judgement on their culture as a entirety? And how is is anything to do with bigotry?

When a patented knifed is cloned where is it's place of manufacture?

 

[Dfunk1210]

It's not a conclusion it's a fact the Chinese government does not recognize copyright infringement. They don't prosecute or regulate it. How is that a judgement on their culture as a entirety? And how is is anything to do with bigotry?

When a patented knifed is cloned where is it's place of manufacture?

Not Hong Kong. Hong Kong is indeed a part of China. But it is an autonomous government that cracked down on counterfeits nearly 20 years ago. This pertains to what you originally said.

It really seems you have some biased preconceptions on China that borders on bigotry as Marcinek said. And its apparent with your largely incomplete “facts.” You literally said it is in Chinese culture to counterfeit.

 

[craytab]

"The government" is not the same as "the people" or "the culture." Anywhere.

And that you draw conclusions about the entire Chinese culture and how bad they are in their entirety borders on bigotry.

Wow.

I am outta here BTL.

Yup, it is a completely ignorant position Mr. needler has chosen to take.

Kid, around here clones and counterfeits are bad. Those who promote or legitimize them will be shunned. Deal with it.

And this will be my last post in this mess of a thread.

 

[Chariotz4]

No what I'm saying is all those American knife companies move operations and make trade agreements with the Chinese, then they get upset about their products being cloned and intellectual property infringement.

And it's not some bad people in China that you keep failing to read. It's their entire culture. Their government DOES NOT recognize copyright infringement. There is no enforcement or regulation. Yet these American knife companies are signing contracts with them then screaming clones after. And yes certain countries we should not be in trade agreements with. Look how long it took to open up with Cuba.

Another example is New Zealand. Copyright infringement is not criminal in their culture.[...]

"The government" is not the same as "the people" or "the culture." Anywhere.

And that you draw conclusions about the entire Chinese culture and how bad they are in their entirety borders on bigotry.

Wow.

I am outta here BTL.

It's not a conclusion it's a fact the Chinese government does not recognize copyright infringement. They don't prosecute or regulate it. How is that a judgement on their culture as a entirety? And how is is anything to do with bigotry?

When a patented knifed is cloned where is it's place of manufacture?

needler420 I'm not sure how it's a judgement on their (China's) entire culture either, but it's something that you at worst, seemingly outright stated, or at best through unclear grammar, alluded to when you said "It's their entire culture. Their government DOES NOT recognize copyright infringement."

Like M marcinek noted, in those two sentences you seemed to correlate how an entire country of more than a billion people thinks and acts based upon how their government views and acts regarding copyright infringement. And seeing as bigotry is defined as intolerance towards those with different opinions...maybe it's just me, but judging an entire populace based upon it's ruling political figures doesn't make for an accurate portrayal of most anything. But I digress, this is GKD, not the political subforum.

I buy my knives based on a few things, with price, availability and design being my main purchase influencers. If something is made well, priced accordingly (to me) and is pleasing to me design/use wise, I don't give a hoot whether it's made in China or on the moon. If cutting out the middle-man saved me money compared to a slightly more expensive, but similar knife that touched on the above attributes, I'd consider it within a budget friendly range. Beyond a $100CAD (~$70-$80USD) or so, I'd likely prefer to pay for that "middle-man" because I'd consider the knife as more of an investment rather than a simply disposable tool; not to mention the fact I'm helping to support fellow North Americans.

 

[needler420]

I know clones are bad lmao. I know what copyright infringement is. I personally don't own a single counterfeit item not just knives.

You know where clones originate from and you know they are bad yet you guys have no problem going out and buying Chinese Kershaw, Buck, schrade, Spyderco, Case, SOG, Cold steel. All American knives companies choosing to do business and make trade agreements in a society where they know there is no copyright infringement laws. They knowingly know where counterfeits come from prior to starting a operation and still choose to do business with them.

Then you knife hobbyist get mad at the private individual (usually kids) who buys clones. Not at the American knife company who outsources production to where those clones originate.

Majority of you just completely overlooking what I say and are just like "clones are bad" no schimt, so are drugs. Then some of you actually understand outsourcing.

Downloading patented music and movies is illegal too and widespread. It's copyright infringement. You want to get mad at every individual who does this practice which is college kids to your grandma. Using Napster, Bearshare, pirate bay, mega upload, limewire. Get upset with the file sharing hosts who provide the copyrighted content not the users. Kettle calling the pot black. It's technically the users that provide the content per their terms of service they remove their liability for their content their users share. But the premise of these file sharing sites is a service to share copyrighted material.

 

[danbot]

I know clones are bad lmao. I know what copyright infringement is. I personally don't own a single counterfeit item not just knives.

You know where clones originate from and you know they are bad yet you guys have no problem going out and buying Chinese Kershaw, Buck, schrade, Spyderco, Case, SOG, Cold steel. All American knives companies choosing to do business and make trade agreements in a society where they know there is no copyright infringement laws. They knowingly know where counterfeits come from prior to starting a operation and still choose to do business with them.

Then you knife hobbyist get mad at the private individual (usually kids) who buys clones. Not at the American knife company who outsources production to where those clones originate.

Majority of you just completely overlooking what I say and are just like "clones are bad" no schimt, so are drugs. Then some of you actually understand outsourcing.

Downloading patented music and movies is illegal too and widespread. It's copyright infringement. You want to get mad at every individual who does this practice which is college kids to your grandma. Using Napster, Bearshare, pirate bay, mega upload, limewire. Get upset with the file sharing hosts who provide the copyrighted content not the users. Kettle calling the pot black.

Here's a thought. Maybe Spyderco et.al are over there doing business and encouraging these companies to make their own knives, because they would much rather deal with honest competition than with flat out theft? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer kinda thing. And at the same time put out an entry/ budget line of their knives to get them into more hands.
ETA: I'm sure they would also contract with them under terms that would be binding to Chinese and international law.

 

[MolokaiRider]

http://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...?Action=CMS_Document&DocID=14050&MenuKey=pubs

In my opinion outsourcing is not that sinister, but arguments can be made. However I do believe in the importance of enforcing terms and regulations that are decided to be fair for both entities.

 

[Mo2]

 

[Dfunk1210]

I know clones are bad lmao. I know what copyright infringement is. I personally don't own a single counterfeit item not just knives.

You know where clones originate from and you know they are bad yet you guys have no problem going out and buying Chinese Kershaw, Buck, schrade, Spyderco, Case, SOG, Cold steel. All American knives companies choosing to do business and make trade agreements in a society where they know there is no copyright infringement laws. They knowingly know where counterfeits come from prior to starting a operation and still choose to do business with them.

Then you knife hobbyist get mad at the private individual (usually kids) who buys clones. Not at the American knife company who outsources production to where those clones originate.

Majority of you just completely overlooking what I say and are just like "clones are bad" no schimt, so are drugs. Then some of you actually understand outsourcing.

Downloading patented music and movies is illegal too and widespread. It's copyright infringement. You want to get mad at every individual who does this practice which is college kids to your grandma. Using Napster, Bearshare, pirate bay, mega upload, limewire. Get upset with the file sharing hosts who provide the copyrighted content not the users. Kettle calling the pot black. It's technically the users that provide the content per their terms of service they remove their liability for their content their users share. But the premise of these file sharing sites is a service to share copyrighted material.

Oh we completely understand what you are saying. You are saying that since there are crooks in China counterfeiting, we should hate American companies outsourcing production to China because they are somehow supporting an entire country of crooked people. So let me ask you, there are plenty of crooks in the United States in all facets of the word. Americans wrote the book on shady business. So by your logic, our entire country is crooked and it is wrong for other countries to buy American. Do you see the problem we have in your argument? Can you not see why so many of us think you have some kind of prejudice against China on the subject?

 

[Cursum Perficio]

Another example is New Zealand. Copyright infringement is not criminal in their culture.

Wrong. As a Kiwi I assure you copyright infringement is not acceptable here, legally or culturally.

 

[Dfunk1210]

Wrong. As a Kiwi I assure you copyright infringement is not acceptable here, legally or culturally.

He initially said the same thing about Hong Kong which got me riled up in the first place.

 

[Pilsner]

Wrong. As a Kiwi I assure you copyright infringement is not acceptable here, legally or culturally.

Yes, I was wondering where he got that particular gem.

 

[scottyj]

I honestly like China. They make great food, and their women are sexy.

 

[needler420]

Oh we completely understand what you are saying. You are saying that since there are crooks in China counterfeiting, we should hate American companies outsourcing production to China because they are somehow supporting an entire country of crooked people. So let me ask you, there are plenty of crooks in the United States in all facets of the word. Americans wrote the book on shady business. So by your logic, our entire country is crooked and it is wrong for other countries to buy American. Do you see the problem we have in your argument? Can you not see why so many of us think you have some kind of prejudice against China on the subject?

Again you keep going on about the crooked bad people in China. Every region and profession has crooked bad people. No one should be doing business with crooked or bad people hence the term "bad people"

The part that keeps flying over your head is China's government does not recognize copyright infringement laws. Their government allows those crooks to operate and manufacture clones by not regulating it.